Against OSAS: some of the best warnings to the churches!

[FreeGrace2]

If it is, then gifts of God are revocable.

That's a mighty BIG "if". I've asked repeatedly for Scripture that describes physical sight as a gift of God. And none has been provided. So such a view remains only an unsubstantiated opinion.

The ONLY issue here is whether eternal life can be removed. It IS described as a gift of God, and Rom 11:29 didn't add any modifiers or exceptions to the plain statement about God's gifts being irrevocable.

Therefore, eternal life is NOT revocable.

It's just sad how many people have failed to use their God given sight to see this.

God has given us many many things. But we must understand not all are or can be described as gifts.

If eternal life could be revoked, there would be very clear verses that make it very clear.

But there aren't any. The clear verses are about eternal security. Which refute the much less clear verses used to teach loss of salvation.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I am really sorry you do not think your sight, hearing, speaking, and every other bodily feature are gifts from God.

They are God given, but the Bible NEVER describes them as gifts. Why isn't that clear?

Even your physical life is a gift from God.

What verse or passage says so?

No FG2, you do not have to give God credit for these gifts; you can take these wonders from God and credit someone or something else.

Don't be silly. Where does the Bible describe any of these things as gifts?

It is those things that the Bible DOES describe as gifts of God that ARE IRREVOCABLE.

Why isn't that believed?

 

[BobRyan]

Consider the Protestant Reformation if all else fails. "Sola Scriptura" testing of all doctrine and tradition.

Try it... you will like it.


in Christ,

Bob

My dear brother, I love the word of God and nothing is truer than "Sola Scriptura" but without "Sola Christ" in you, there is no discernment and may lead one to boasting in themselves![/QUOTE]

Then instead of dismissing almost every detail in Romans 11 --

We have this for those who claim salvation is not being discussed in Romans 11 --

11 I say then, they did not stumble so as to fall, did they? May it never be! But by their transgression salvation has come to the Gentiles, to make them jealous. 12 Now if their transgression is riches for the world and their failure is riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their fulfillment be! 13 But I am speaking to you who are Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle of Gentiles, I magnify my ministry, 14 if somehow I might move to jealousy my fellow countrymen and save some of them.

And we also have this --

Romans 11
13 But I am speaking to you who are Gentiles. ...

20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again


Romans 2
25 For indeed circumcision is of value if you practice the Law; but if you are a transgressor of the Law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. 26 So if the uncircumcised man keeps the requirements of the Law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision? 27 And he who is physically uncircumcised, if he keeps the Law, will he not judge you who though having the letter of the Law and circumcision are a transgressor of the Law? 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. 29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.

 

[BobRyan]

Notice that this sort of "sola scriptura" post - is "much to be avoided" by those who reject that sort of test.

Because in this case - it directly tests the claim of OSAS.

So then -- "Sola scriptura" -- it is.


Romans 11
13 But I am speaking to you who are Gentiles. ...

20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again

Romans 2
25 For indeed circumcision is of value if you practice the Law; but if you are a transgressor of the Law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. 26 So if the uncircumcised man keeps the requirements of the Law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision? 27 And he who is physically uncircumcised, if he keeps the Law, will he not judge you who though having the letter of the Law and circumcision are a transgressor of the Law? 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. 29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.

Matt 18 (Forgiveness revoked)
31 So when his fellow slaves saw what had happened, they were deeply grieved and came and reported to their lord all that had happened. 32 Then summoning him, his lord *said to him, ‘You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me. 33 Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?’ 34 And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him. 35 My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.”

1 Cor 9
26 Therefore I run in such a way, as not without aim; I box in such a way, as not beating the air; 27 but I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached the Gospel to others, I myself will not be disqualified from it.

1 Cor 6
7 Actually, then, it is already a defeat for you, that you have lawsuits with one another. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be defrauded? 8 On the contrary, you yourselves wrong and defraud. You do this even to your brethren.
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified


Ezekiel 18 (forgiveness revoked)
24 “But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, commits iniquity and does according to all the abominations that a wicked man does, will he live? All his righteous deeds which he has done will not be remembered for his treachery which he has committed and his sin which he has committed; for them he will die. 25 Yet you say, ‘The way of the Lord is not right.’ Hear now, O house of Israel! Is My way not right? Is it not your ways that are not right? 26 When a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, commits iniquity and dies because of it, for his iniquity which he has committed he will die. 27 Again, when a wicked man turns away from his wickedness which he has committed and practices justice and righteousness, he will save his life.

 

[Linet Kihonge]

Once Saved Always Saved:

[Therefore let us move beyond the elementary teachings about Christ and be taken forward to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death,a and of faith in God, instruction about cleansing rites, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. And God permitting, we will do so.

It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned.]

So if you chose to walk with the LORD let him guide you otherwise, a believer is not meant to ask for cleansing of sins all the time. I know it's difficult to be HOLY but there can be no salvation without true repentance. If the sin was slandering, the person repents of it and turns into a new leaf, spreads the word, does signs and leads crowds into His Light, then starts slandering and goes to the extent of messing people's relationship, what would he be repenting of?

 

[EmSw]

They are God given, but the Bible NEVER describes them as gifts. Why isn't that clear?

Did you say 'God-given'? Well, well, well, aren't gifts GIVEN?

The Bible doesn't have to say anything about a subject for it to be true. For instance, the Bible says nothing sunscreen helping prevent sunburn, yet, it is true.

Why are you fighting the truth of God-given sight so hard? Why don't you accept it? No one else on this forum will say sight is not a gift from God. You are a loner.

What verse or passage says so?

Do you not believe physical life is a gift from God? God is life; it can only come from Him. Perhaps you know of someone else who is life; do you care to share?

From whom does man receive his physical life? Are you an evolutionist? Do you think life came from lightening striking mucky waters?

Don't be silly. Where does the Bible describe any of these things as gifts?

It is so sad, yes, unbelievable, you don't think everything you have is a gift from God. This alone keeps me from adhering to the Free Grace theology.

It is those things that the Bible DOES describe as gifts of God that ARE IRREVOCABLE.

Why isn't that believed?

The promised land was GIVEN to Abraham and his descendants, yet this promised land was revoked from many who lived in evil. Why do you not believe this?

 

[FreeGrace2]

Did you say 'God-given'? Well, well, well, aren't gifts GIVEN?

OK, let's play that game. Is everything "given" a gift? What about the common phrase:
"don't give me any nonsense". Is nonsense, which is SAID to be given, a gift?

The Bible doesn't have to say anything about a subject for it to be true.

Actually, it does.

For instance, the Bible says nothing sunscreen helping prevent sunburn, yet, it is true.

Oh, for pity sakes. I speak of Biblical truth. Not just silly facts that have NO relevance to Scripture or God's plan for mankind.

Why are you fighting the truth of God-given sight so hard?

lol. I'm not fighting anything. But I am observing how hard you've tried to fight for the silly idea that is directly contrary to Rom 11:29. But, you are free to "have it your own way". But I know the truth of Scripture. The gifts that the Bible says are gifts are irrevocable.

Why don't you accept it? No one else on this forum will say sight is not a gift from God.

I would say my very near-sighted vision is hardly a gift.

However, all this discussion about physical sight simply ignores the FACT of Scripture. Nowhere in the Bible do we find that eternal life can be or has been revoked from anyone.

So your point is pointless.

It is so sad, yes, unbelievable, you don't think everything you have is a gift from God. This alone keeps me from adhering to the Free Grace theology.

One would need to accept truth in order to adhere to Free Grace theology. So don't hide behind any excuse for not adhering to it.

The promised land was GIVEN to Abraham and his descendants, yet this promised land was revoked from many who lived in evil. Why do you not believe this?

Because I don't believe the Bible describes the promised land as a gift. In fact, those who read the Bible KNOW that the Israelites had to FIGHT to possess the land. They had to work for it. So it is NOT equivalent to salvation in any way.

And the land wasn't "revoked". Why do you make up so much stuff? The land was promised to those who took it. That means they FOUGHT for it. And the other side of the promise was that if they turned from God, He would take it from them.

But, if you can find ANY verse that describes the Israelites as having the land revoked, be my guest and share.

 

[Born Again2004]

My dear brother, I love the word of God and nothing is truer than "Sola Scriptura" but without "Sola Christ" in you, there is no discernment and may lead one to boasting in themselves!

Then instead of dismissing almost every detail in Romans 11 --

We have this for those who claim salvation is not being discussed in Romans 11 --

11 I say then, they did not stumble so as to fall, did they? May it never be! But by their transgression salvation has come to the Gentiles, to make them jealous. 12 Now if their transgression is riches for the world and their failure is riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their fulfillment be! 13 But I am speaking to you who are Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle of Gentiles, I magnify my ministry, 14 if somehow I might move to jealousy my fellow countrymen and save some of them.

And we also have this --

Romans 11
13 But I am speaking to you who are Gentiles. ...

20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again


Romans 2
25 For indeed circumcision is of value if you practice the Law; but if you are a transgressor of the Law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. 26 So if the uncircumcised man keeps the requirements of the Law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision? 27 And he who is physically uncircumcised, if he keeps the Law, will he not judge you who though having the letter of the Law and circumcision are a transgressor of the Law? 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. 29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.[/QUOTE]
You paid no attention to what I said, I will try it again!
My dear brother, I love the word of God and nothing is truer than "Sola Scriptura" but without "Sola Christ" in you, there is no discernment and may lead one to boasting in themselves![/

 

[BobRyan]

Then instead of dismissing almost every detail in Romans 11 --

We have this for those who claim salvation is not being discussed in Romans 11 --

11 I say then, they did not stumble so as to fall, did they? May it never be! But by their transgression salvation has come to the Gentiles, to make them jealous. 12 Now if their transgression is riches for the world and their failure is riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their fulfillment be! 13 But I am speaking to you who are Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle of Gentiles, I magnify my ministry, 14 if somehow I might move to jealousy my fellow countrymen and save some of them.

And we also have this --

Romans 11
13 But I am speaking to you who are Gentiles. ...

20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again


Romans 2
25 For indeed circumcision is of value if you practice the Law; but if you are a transgressor of the Law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. 26 So if the uncircumcised man keeps the requirements of the Law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision? 27 And he who is physically uncircumcised, if he keeps the Law, will he not judge you who though having the letter of the Law and circumcision are a transgressor of the Law? 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. 29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.



You paid no attention to what I said, I will try it again!
My dear brother, I love the word of God and nothing is truer than "Sola Scriptura" but without "Sola Christ" in you, there is no discernment and may lead one to boasting in themselves!

Thanks for posting that!!

 

[Born Again2004]

My dear brother, I love the word of God and nothing is truer than "Sola Scriptura" but without "Sola Christ" in you, there is no discernment and may lead one to boasting in themselves!

Then instead of dismissing almost every detail in Romans 11 --

We have this for those who claim salvation is not being discussed in Romans 11 --

11 I say then, they did not stumble so as to fall, did they? May it never be! But by their transgression salvation has come to the Gentiles, to make them jealous. 12 Now if their transgression is riches for the world and their failure is riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their fulfillment be! 13 But I am speaking to you who are Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle of Gentiles, I magnify my ministry, 14 if somehow I might move to jealousy my fellow countrymen and save some of them.

And we also have this --

Romans 11
13 But I am speaking to you who are Gentiles. ...

20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again


Romans 2
25 For indeed circumcision is of value if you practice the Law; but if you are a transgressor of the Law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. 26 So if the uncircumcised man keeps the requirements of the Law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision? 27 And he who is physically uncircumcised, if he keeps the Law, will he not judge you who though having the letter of the Law and circumcision are a transgressor of the Law? 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. 29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.[/QUOTE]
No my dear friend.....I originally said this:
My dear brother, I love the word of God and nothing is truer than "Sola Scriptura" but without "Sola Christ" in you, there is no discernment and may lead one to boasting in themselves![/QUOTE]

 

[EmSw]

OK, let's play that game. Is everything "given" a gift? What about the common phrase:
"don't give me any nonsense". Is nonsense, which is SAID to be given, a gift?

So tell us what constitutes a gift. Please be specific. And please do not use the word 'given'.

Because I don't believe the Bible describes the promised land as a gift. In fact, those who read the Bible KNOW that the Israelites had to FIGHT to possess the land. They had to work for it. So it is NOT equivalent to salvation in any way.

So the Israelites had to fight to possess a promise of God? They had to work for a promise of God, right? So, a promise is not a gift, since they had to work for it, right?

Wasn't the promise of the land, in the future? Did Abraham, to whom the promise was made, ever possess the promise?

Tell me what you believe about a promise. When does one actually receive a promise?

And the land wasn't "revoked". Why do you make up so much stuff? The land was promised to those who took it. That means they FOUGHT for it. And the other side of the promise was that if they turned from God, He would take it from them.

Are you telling us that if the descendants of Abraham turned from God, He would take the promise away from them? Now that is interesting! Sounds like it was revoked.

But, if you can find ANY verse that describes the Israelites as having the land revoked, be my guest and share.

Okay.

Numbers 14:30
Except for Caleb the son of Jephunneh and Joshua the son of Nun, you shall by no means enter the land which I swore I would make you dwell in.

Numbers 20:24
Aaron shall be gathered to his people, for he shall not enter the land which I have given to the children of Israel, because you rebelled against My word at the water of Meribah.

Deuteronomy 4:21
Furthermore the Lord was angry with me for your sakes, and swore that I would not cross over the Jordan, and that I would not enter the good land which the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance. (Here we see the promise is an inheritance)

Ezekiel 20:38
I will purge the rebels from among you, and those who transgress against Me; I will bring them out of the country where they dwell, but they shall not enter the land of Israel. Then you will know that I am the Lord. (Those who rebelled and transgressed against the Lord, did not enter the land)

It looks like the promised land was revoked from plenty of Abraham's descendants.

 

[BobRyan]

Then instead of dismissing almost every detail in Romans 11 --

We have this for those who claim salvation is not being discussed in Romans 11 --

11 I say then, they did not stumble so as to fall, did they? May it never be! But by their transgression salvation has come to the Gentiles, to make them jealous. 12 Now if their transgression is riches for the world and their failure is riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their fulfillment be! 13 But I am speaking to you who are Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle of Gentiles, I magnify my ministry, 14 if somehow I might move to jealousy my fellow countrymen and save some of them.

And we also have this --

Romans 11
13 But I am speaking to you who are Gentiles. ...

20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again


Romans 2
25 For indeed circumcision is of value if you practice the Law; but if you are a transgressor of the Law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. 26 So if the uncircumcised man keeps the requirements of the Law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision? 27 And he who is physically uncircumcised, if he keeps the Law, will he not judge you who though having the letter of the Law and circumcision are a transgressor of the Law? 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. 29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.

I am still not at all opposed to your post containing those bible facts.

 

[FreeGrace2]

So tell us what constitutes a gift. Please be specific. And please do not use the word 'given'.

Don't be silly. Of course a gift is given. But my point, which you've ignored, is that not everything that has been given can be properly called a gift.

So the Israelites had to fight to possess a promise of God? They had to work for a promise of God, right? So, a promise is not a gift, since they had to work for it, right?

Just read and learn what the Bible says. God gave them the land, but they had to take it, which meant by force. They had to conquer the inhabitants in the land.

Wasn't the promise of the land, in the future? Did Abraham, to whom the promise was made, ever possess the promise?

No, he didn't. Acts 7:5 - He gave him no inheritance here, not even a foot of ground. But God promised him that he and his descendants after him would possess the land, even though at that time Abraham had no child

Tell me what you believe about a promise. When does one actually receive a promise?

What a weird question. The answer would obviously depend upon the promise.

Are you telling us that if the descendants of Abraham turned from God, He would take the promise away from them? Now that is interesting! Sounds like it was revoked.

I never said the promise land was a gift. That's your error. In fact, God has promised eternal rewards for faithfulness and obedience. They are NOT gifts, because they are earned. And they can be lost or "revoked".

I said this:
"But, if you can find ANY verse that describes the Israelites as having the land revoked, be my guest and share."

Okay.

Numbers 14:30
Except for Caleb the son of Jephunneh and Joshua the son of Nun, you shall by no means enter the land which I swore I would make you dwell in.

Numbers 20:24
Aaron shall be gathered to his people, for he shall not enter the land which I have given to the children of Israel, because you rebelled against My word at the water of Meribah.

Deuteronomy 4:21
Furthermore the Lord was angry with me for your sakes, and swore that I would not cross over the Jordan, and that I would not enter the good land which the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance. (Here we see the promise is an inheritance)

Ezekiel 20:38
I will purge the rebels from among you, and those who transgress against Me; I will bring them out of the country where they dwell, but they shall not enter the land of Israel. Then you will know that I am the Lord. (Those who rebelled and transgressed against the Lord, did not enter the land)

It looks like the promised land was revoked from plenty of Abraham's descendants.

No problem. The promised land was never described as a gift. They had to subdue the inhabitants. They worked for it. They earned it. It was a reward.

Would you argue that a reward is a gift? Rewards are GIVEN.

 

[Marvin Knox]

Loss of salvation proponents display an abysmal ignorance of both the basic mechanics of salvation and it's eternal purpose.

 

[BobRyan]

Loss of salvation proponents display an abysmal ignorance of both the basic mechanics of salvation and it's eternal purpose.

as a plastic accusation that works - but no substance.

Try a Bible text and a point.

 

[BobRyan]

OSAS does not survive the Bible details in Romans 11, or in Matt 18, or in Ezekiel 18.

We have this for those who claim salvation is not being discussed in Romans 11 --

11 I say then, they did not stumble so as to fall, did they? May it never be! But by their transgression salvation has come to the Gentiles, to make them jealous. 12 Now if their transgression is riches for the world and their failure is riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their fulfillment be! 13 But I am speaking to you who are Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle of Gentiles, I magnify my ministry, 14 if somehow I might move to jealousy my fellow countrymen and save some of them.

And we also have this --

Romans 11
13 But I am speaking to you who are Gentiles. ...

20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again


Romans 2
25 For indeed circumcision is of value if you practice the Law; but if you are a transgressor of the Law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. 26 So if the uncircumcised man keeps the requirements of the Law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision? 27 And he who is physically uncircumcised, if he keeps the Law, will he not judge you who though having the letter of the Law and circumcision are a transgressor of the Law? 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. 29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.

 

[EmSw]

Loss of salvation proponents display an abysmal ignorance of both the basic mechanics of salvation and it's eternal purpose.

Why were the following not saved?

Luke 13
26 then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets.’
27 But He will say, ‘I tell you I do not know you, where you are from. Depart from Me, all you workers of iniquity.’
28 There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, and yourselves thrust out.

Matthew 7
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’
23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

What is the theme in the previous passages? Is it belief? Is it faith? Is it eternal security? Is it predestination? NO, it is none of those things!

The theme is the kingdom of God, not entering the kingdom, and working lawlessness. Who disagrees with this? Who does not believe this? How can one say they believe in Jesus and not believe His words?

The important question is, how were these people to be saved and enter the kingdom? Was it eating and drinking in His presence? NO! Was it being taught by Jesus? NO! Was it prophesying in His name? NO! Was it casting out devils in His name? NO! Was it doing wonders in His name? NO!

The answer is plain to see in both Luke and Matthew, if only one wants to see it. Those who practice and work iniquity WILL NOT ENTER THE KINGDOM, period. It matters not if you call Him Lord or not.

Unfortunately, many on here say you can practice iniquity and still keep your salvation. This goes to show they don't really believe Jesus and His words. They think they have a better way than Jesus. If you don't believe working iniquity will take you out His hand, you are living on dangerous ground.

As someone has said, this thinking 'displays an abysmal ignorance of the basic mechanics of salvation'.

 

[BobRyan]

The answer is plain to see in both Luke and Matthew, if only one wants to see it. Those who practice and work iniquity WILL NOT ENTER THE KINGDOM, period. It matters not if you call Him Lord or not.

.

Which is why OSAS does not survive 1 Corinthians 6 or Matthew 18.

 

[Marvin Knox]

Why were the following not saved?
Matthew 7
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’
23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
What is the theme in the previous passages? Is it belief? Is it faith? Is it eternal security? Is it predestination? NO, it is none of those things!

The main theme is the necessity of being known by Jesus Christ.

In the case of the Matthew passage the people in question were "never" known by Him.

It does not, therefore, belong in a discussion of OSAS as this thread is intended.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The main theme is the necessity of being known by Jesus Christ.

In the case of the Matthew passage the people in question were "never" known by Him.

It does not, therefore, belong in a discussion of OSAS as this thread is intended.

In Ezekiel 18:24 it says,

"But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die."

In other words, if a believer sins, his previous righteousness shall not be remembered or mentioned. It's the same when a person first comes to Christ. Their previous past sins are forgiven and remembered no more. In other words, the door swings both ways. Anyways, seeing God identifies with the righteous, and not sinful people, God will act like he never knew a person if they have fallen away into sinning or into believing a doctrine that teaches that one can sin and still be saved. Based on Ezekiel 18:24, God will no longer remember their righteousness (or them as a righteous saint) because of their sin.


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