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Against OSAS: some of the best warnings to the churches!

Freedom Now

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The answer is ...yes. Yes she is still saved.

Scripture:
John 10:28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.


According to your understanding, this person has eternal life, right?

If that is so, would the saved that live in sin when they die, will they......

spent eternal life in heaven?
or
will they spend eternal life in the lake of fire?
 
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Winken

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There are two judgments.

1. The Judgment Seat of Christ for the saved, where Christians are rewarded for their faithful witness. If there are few or no faithful witness examples, the reward will be reduced to "by the skin of your teeth"; perhaps, no rewards, for sure far less than what a Spiritually-birthed Christian could have received. All of those failures will be revealed. The grief of that Christian in that moment will be unimaginable. Then, that moment evaporates, as the Grief-stricken Christian hears, "Enter in to Thy Rest."

2. The Great White Throne Judgment for those who have failed to confess Jesus as Savior. No hope. None. Gone in a flash.
 
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EmSw

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EmSw, you live in sin everyday. Often you enjoy it. If you deny what I have just said, then you are sinning by lying.

Don't judge me too harshly lord 57. People told me I could live that way. I thought they were right. Why did I listen to them? Someone tell me why!!!
 
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Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
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Yeah, I know this is in the Bible, but try on Romans 9 ...
where God creates some for His glory and some for destruction.
Great topic to be researched.
All through the Bible, God says:
I will bless who I want to, and I will curse who I want to.

No. God does not set out to create some to be saved and some to be unsaved. Everyone has the free will choice to accept or reject Christ in this life; And God's morality is not in conflict with what everyone knows to be good and right, too. God doesn't just pick some people out to be cursed or blessed that would go against a standard set code of morality and that would go against man's free will choice in choosing good or bad. That would be illogical.

When you read Romans 9:13-23 you also have to read Jeremiah 18. For if you were to re-read this chapter you would see that God molds the clay according to what that nation does. In other words, God's Word in Jeremiah 18 is teaching us that the "clay" has a choice. For the chapter also essentially says he turn from the punishment that he would do unto them if they were to repent of their evil or wicked ways.


...
 
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Bible Highlighter

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Freedom Now said:
I spent some time reading through this thread, to see if.......


But I have a question for all involved in this debate....

I have a close family member that became a christian 24 years ago, and I mean christian as in,
her life completely changed from SELFserving to seeking God in everything. In conduct and behavior
she was a model what christianity is all about, married, stayed home with the kids to raise them,
home schooled them, etc....
Now 2 years ago she cheated on her husband and shortly after moved in with new guy (not christian).
No interest in God anymore, I asked if she wanted prayer...no not interested.
Still officially married to this day to her husband and still living with other guy.

And before some say, she never really was a christian to start with, sorry she is family
and I know her well. Her christian walk was real.

My question for you is, .....
if this person were to die today, will she still have eternal life?

I would like good honest answers to this, preferably backed by scriptures.

Thank you
The answer is ...yes. Yes she is still saved.

Scripture:
John 10:28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.




...
 
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EmSw

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Eternal security believers believe this...


1st Cor 3:10By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as a wise master builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one must be careful how he builds. 11For no one can lay a foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ.

12If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, or straw, 13his workmanship will be evident, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will prove the quality of each man’s work. 14If what he has built survives, he will receive a reward. 15If it is burned up, he will suffer loss. He himself will be saved, but only as one being snatched from the fire.

I trust you stand corrected.

Works aren't built upon a foundation, a building is.

1 Corinthians 3:9
For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building.
 
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Bible Highlighter

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Eternal security believers believe this...


1st Cor 3:10By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as a wise master builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one must be careful how he builds. 11For no one can lay a foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ.

12If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, or straw, 13his workmanship will be evident, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will prove the quality of each man’s work. 14If what he has built survives, he will receive a reward. 15If it is burned up, he will suffer loss. He himself will be saved, but only as one being snatched from the fire.

I trust you stand corrected.

In 1 Corinthians 3,

What (Who) is the foundation for the building?

Jesus Christ (1 Corinthians 3:11).​

Who lives within the building?

The Spirit of God (1 Corinthians 3:16).​

What (Who) is the building?

The church (God's people) (i.e. the Temple of God). (1 Corinthians 3:9) (1 Corinthians 3:16).​

Who makes the building to grow?

It is God who gives the increase (1 Corinthians 3:7).​

Are we working alone (or is our works all our own)?

No, we are said to be fellow laborers with God (1 Corinthians 3:9).​

What is the material that makes up that building?

Works (1 Corinthians 3:12).​

The different types of materials like gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble are a representation of what thing?

The type of works one has.
Works that are burned up are made out of a lesser material (Meaning, they are works that are lesser or inferior).
We receive reward(s) if our work is not burned up.
If work is burned up, the builder loses rewards but they are still saved.
(1 Corinthians 3:13-15).​

Is there a builder present in this story who did not build upon the foundation (or did not have works) and was saved?

No.​

What happens to the man who defiles the Temple of God (i.e. the church, themselves or other believers)?

God will destroy them (1 Corinthians 3:16).​

What is the reason God will destroy those men who defile the temple?

Because the Temple of God is holy (1 Corinthians 3:16).​

Please take note that the man who defiled the temple of God does not have the same destiny as the builder who had inferior works.
No doubt it is sin (that leads unto spiritual death) that defiles the temple.
Seeing this picture is relating to the spiritual world, it is logical to assume that the entire analogy remains unchanged and the destruction of the Temple is a destruction of one's soul spiritually.
For the verse above it (verse 15) was talking about how the builder was saved despite their inferior works being burned up.
Clealy the man in verse 16 has an entirely different destiny than salvation because God is destroying them for their defilement of the temple.

Obviously this entire analogy or picture is to show how those who wrongfully said they were of Paul or Apollos (i.e. those who committed faults or sins that do not lead unto spiritual death - See 1 John 5:16-18) will have works done in the name of Paul or Apollos which is likened to hay or stubble whereby it will be burned up. They are still saved as long as they are on the foundation of Jesus Christ (i.e. they are of the belief that they are ultimately serving Jesus Christ (i.e. Who is the foundation of the building, i.e. God's church). For no man can lay any other foundation but Jesus Christ.

Side Note:

Oh, and just in case you were wondering:

What is a sin that leads unto death?

Sins unto death are sins that lead to the Second Death or the Lake of Fire.
Such sins would be Murder, hate, lying, unbelief, idolatry, theft, adultery, and drunkeness, etc. (Revelation 21:8, Galatians 5:19-21, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Ephesians 5:3-6).​

What is a sin that does not lead unto death?

Not being baptized is a sin that does not lead unto death (1 Peter 3:21).
Being boastful in one another in Christ is not a sin that leads unto spiritual death (i.e. the Lake of Fire) even though it is a sin or a fault. For the Corinthians were called carnal (sinful) for boasting in each other (and causing divisions) and yet they were also called brethren. Also, their error was related to hay and stubble that would be burned up (and yet, they themselves would be saved, too) (1 Corinthians 3).​

...
 
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FreeGrace2

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I said this:
"OK, I'll take this as an admission that you have no grasp of what it means to be irrevocable.

Please provide any verse that attaches conditions to grace. Again, this is just another admission that you have no grasp of what grace means."
Titus 2
11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,
12 teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age


The grace you are spouting does not teach this. It teaches a man can live in sin and enjoy it.
What you are spouting is totally FALSE and those who actually read my posts know very that very well.

I've posted consistently that God's discipline is directed as His rebellious children. Heb 12:6 is quite clear about that.

But your error is to think that God removes salvation from His rebellious children. While that may be something that appeals highly to you, that isn't part of God's plan.

Maybe you should actually know what Biblical grace teaches before you tell others about your pseudo grace.
There is actually NO grace in your theology. None whatsoever.
 
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FreeGrace2

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According to your understanding, this person has eternal life, right?

If that is so, would the saved that live in sin when they die, will they......

spent eternal life in heaven?
or
will they spend eternal life in the lake of fire?
Seriously? The lake of fire is also called the "second death".

So your question is silly. How can eternal LIFE ever experience any kind of DEATH?

Not possible.

But the real question is why anyone continues to doubt or reject the fact that God's gifts are irrevocable, according to Rom 11:29 and eternal life is described as a gift of God.

That's the real mystery.
 
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FreeGrace2

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Don't judge me too harshly lord 57. People told me I could live that way. I thought they were right. Why did I listen to them? Someone tell me why!!!
You wanted to at that time. No real mystery here. You STILL possess your sin nature, and UNLESS you are walking by means of the Holy Spirit, you WILL FULFILL the LUSTS of your flesh.

Gal 5:16 - But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh.

Want to know what the desires of the flesh look like?

19 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality,
20 idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions,
21 envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God

I know what you're thinking here. v.21 teaches that such believers will not get into the kingdom. However, what it really teaches is that they will have NO INHERITANCE in heaven.

Why error in thinking that inheriting the kingdom means getting into the kingdom?
 
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Freedom Now

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Seriously? The lake of fire is also called the "second death".

So your question is silly. How can eternal LIFE ever experience any kind of DEATH?

Not possible.

But the real question is why anyone continues to doubt or reject the fact that God's gifts are irrevocable, according to Rom 11:29 and eternal life is described as a gift of God.

That's the real mystery.



As it appears that you are well studied on this subject, maybe you can answer my question in post 376.


I spent some time reading through this thread, to see if.......


But I have a question for all involved in this debate....

I have a close family member that became a christian 24 years ago, and I mean christian as in,
her life completely changed from SELFserving to seeking God in everything. In conduct and behavior
she was a model what christianity is all about, married, stayed home with the kids to raise them,
home schooled them, etc....
Now 2 years ago she cheated on her husband and shortly after moved in with new guy (not christian).
No interest in God anymore, I asked if she wanted prayer...no not interested.
Still officially married to this day to her husband and still living with other guy.

And before some say, she never really was a christian to start with, sorry she is family
and I know her well. Her christian walk was real.

My question for you is, .....
if this person were to die today, will she still have eternal life?

I would like good honest answers to this, preferably backed by scriptures.

Thank you


Thank you for your time on this.
 
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Bible Highlighter

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Why don't you believe that eternal life, a gift of God, isn't irrevocable since God's gifts are irrevocable?

First, I already explained to you before several times that Jesus is the source of a person's eternal life (1 John 5:12) (1 TImothy 6:16) (John 14:6) (John 6:35), and Jesus is a person's gift (2 Corinthians 9:15 cf. John 3:16). I also said to you before several times that real life teaches us that gifts come with responsibilties. For example: In the parable of the pearl of great price, the man sold all that he had just to obtain it (Matthew 13:45-46). If he did not want to be responsible with the gift that he discovered, he could have just done nothing. Anyways, Jesus is our pearl of great price. Jesus is our treasure. (Luke 9:23 cf. Matthew 10:39, Matthew 19:27, Matthew 19:29, Luke 19:8-9). I also said to you several times that I agree that God's gifts are irrevocable but these gifts are irrevocable under the set conditions that God sets. We know God does not cancel on his promises or gifts, but God's promises or gifts come with certain conditions or terms per the contract agreement. If a person breaks that agreement or contract that is on them and not on God. God's promises or gifts are still true and irrevocable if you keep to the terms of the agreement. For example: In Deuteronomy 31:6, it says God will not forsake His people, but in Deuteronomy 31:16-17 God will forsake his people on account of their unfaithfulness. In other words, one has to look at other verses in Scripture to get the whole story. Please stop repeating the same questions. I have answered this for you before already many times.

Second, the fact that you are responding (with no moral awareness) to my picture of a dog (who is in shock) as a reply to 57's statement means you truly do not understand where I am coming from. For what you do not understand is that God's grace is not greasy grace. What you do not understand is that God does not condone evil or willful rebellion done against Him. He never has and He never will. God is good and He is not evil. For God to agree with a believer's wrong thinking that they could sin and still be saved is impossible because God is holy and just. This is important to understand because a believer is supposed to have the mind of Christ (1 Corinthians 2:16). Now, would Jesus ever think that He could sin and still be saved? No. So neither should we.

...
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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When there's a sign up saying "BRIDGE OUT"
what happens to those who ignore it, and just drive 60mph right out to where there's no more bridge under them ?
Previous signs "DETOUR" "HWY X ->" "ALTERNATE ROUTE" having been all ignored. (the "BRIDGE OUT" sign being the last sign.)

Oh, btw, the BRIDGE that's OUT, it is VERY wide.
 
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