"...against nature:" Always a sin?

[Stinker]

Posted by: Stinker

Against nature" is deliberately and forcibly abusing the natural order -- using something in a way that is destructive of its natural use (not just an extension of its use). [JunkYardDog post #4]

This is exactly what we Christians are doing everyday in regards to our carnal nature!

That is your error. Christians are to have crucified their carnal nature. Homosexuality and Christianity are mutually exclusive.

Galatians 5:24 (NLT)
Those who belong to Christ Jesus have nailed the passions and desires of their sinful nature to his cross and crucified them there.

You deny that you have a carnal nature that you have to keep putting under subjection each day?

 

[intricatic]

Posted by: Stinker

Against nature" is deliberately and forcibly abusing the natural order -- using something in a way that is destructive of its natural use (not just an extension of its use). [JunkYardDog post #4]

This is exactly what we Christians are doing everyday in regards to our carnal nature!



You deny that you have a carnal nature that you have to keep putting under subjection each day?

Sin nature and human nature go hand in hand, but the nature of psysical design is different from that of human nature. Our impulses are indeed something we need to restrain and control.

 

[DevotiontoBible]

You deny that you have a carnal nature that you have to keep putting under subjection each day?

I have crucified the passions and desires of my sinful nature. Have you? Do you think that a Christian is a practicing homosexual?

Galatians 5:24 (NLT)
Those who belong to Christ Jesus have nailed the passions and desires of their sinful nature to his cross and crucified them there.

 

[JunkYardDog]

Posted by: Stinker

Against nature" is deliberately and forcibly abusing the natural order -- using something in a way that is destructive of its natural use (not just an extension of its use). [JunkYardDog post #4]

This is exactly what we Christians are doing everyday in regards to our carnal nature!

You deny that you have a carnal nature that you have to keep putting under subjection each day?

I have a dead nature which was carnal and soemtimes it rots and stinks things up. However, I am a NEW CREATURE with a new nature.

 

[Sam Gamgee]

Science helps. It helps us to know what the nature of the object is. If the lining inside is designed to be one way and is fragile (compared to, let's say, a vagina -- which is also designed for BOTH WAY) and that the sphincter loses its normal and natural ability due to repeated misuse as an entrance for the wrong objects, then science assists what is an obvious conclusion even without science -- that it is an exit, not an entrance.

What if I told you that I agreed with you and that I do not have anal sex for those exact reasons.

Does that make me "natural" in your eyes? If I only practice in oral sex with my male lover, I must be natural by your definition.

Cool!!!

 

[intricatic]

What if I told you that I agreed with you and that I do not have anal sex for those exact reasons.

Does that make me "natural" in your eyes? If I only practice in oral sex with my male lover, I must be natural by your definition.

Cool!!!

Indeed, not, but do our opinions really matter to you? I think the sexual is a result of something spiritual or emotional, and that spiritual or emotional thing is the unnatural thing. It's a perversion of what the human spirit was created to be.

 

[Sam Gamgee]

That is your error. Christians are to have crucified their carnal nature. Homosexuality and Christianity are mutually exclusive.

Galatians 5:24 (NLT)
Those who belong to Christ Jesus have nailed the passions and desires of their sinful nature to his cross and crucified them there.

What he means is that, in nature, animals express their carnal desires freely. It's natural to see to lions going at it.

As Christians, we repress that and are taught to have shame about being free with our sexuality... His argument is that, as Christians, we are living just as "unnatural" of a lifestyle as any other person...

 

[Sam Gamgee]

Indeed, not, but do our opinions really matter to you? I think the sexual is a result of something spiritual or emotional, and that spiritual or emotional thing is the unnatural thing. It's a perversion of what the human spirit was created to be.

What?

You believe that emotions are unnatural? I don't think I'm following you.

 

[intricatic]

What he means is that, in nature, animals express their carnal desires freely. It's natural to see to lions going at it.

As Christians, we repress that and are taught to have shame about being free with our sexuality... His argument is that, as Christians, we are living just as "unnatural" of a lifestyle as any other person...

But we exist in an order above animals, from a Christian perspective, and thusly have a different nature. What's unnatural to an animal may be natural to us, or may be attributed to a natural instinct that we have that animals don't. That, namely, being morality.

 

[intricatic]

What?

You believe that emotions are unnatural? I don't think I'm following you.

I think the way we use our emotions can be unnatural, or twisted from what they were originally intended to be used as.

 

[Sam Gamgee]

But we exist in an order above animals, from a Christian perspective, and thusly have a different nature. What's unnatural to an animal may be natural to us, or may be attributed to a natural instinct that we have that animals don't. That, namely, being morality.

Do we really? Where is that written?

Noah didn't take extra humans on the ark because we were superior. He took two of everything... equally.

I think we like to think we are superior... but we are animals, just like every other animal. We have a language and a culture just like other animals. We have emotions just like other animals.

If the New Orleans aftermath can teach us anything, it is that humans are animals underneath our nice clothes and social status. When it comes right down to it, life is all about survival of the fittest

 

[Sam Gamgee]

I think the way we use our emotions can be unnatural, or twisted from what they were originally intended to be used as.

I disagree..

I think emotions, regardless of what those emotions are, are completely natural.

The cause of those emotions may come from an unnatural place. For example, I think we could agree that being gang-raped is unnatural. However, feeling intense hatred and wanting to get revenge is a completely natural emotion to feel afterwards... It's not even remotely biblical, but it's completely natural.

Emotions are the outlet to our feelings. And feelings can never be wrong.

 

[intricatic]

Do we really? Where is that written?

Noah didn't take extra humans on the ark because we were superior. He took two of everything... equally.

I think we like to think we are superior... but we are animals, just like every other animal. We have a language and a culture just like other animals. We have emotions just like other animals.

If the New Orleans aftermath can teach us anything, it is that humans are animals underneath our nice clothes and social status. When it comes right down to it, life is all about survival of the fittest

He took his entire family, and their wives / husbands, as well as two of every animal. Unless you think his sons and daughters were different species of animal than Noah was, your analogy is flawed. We have sentience and souls which is contrary to animal nature.

 

[intricatic]

I disagree..

I think emotions, regardless of what those emotions are, are completely natural.

The cause of those emotions may come from an unnatural place. For example, I think we could agree that being gang-raped is unnatural. However, feeling intense hatred and wanting to get revenge is a completely natural emotion to feel afterwards... It's not even remotely biblical, but it's completely natural.

Emotions are the outlet to our feelings. And feelings can never be wrong.

If you felt drawn to be abused by someone because you felt inferior, and hated it at the same time, would that be natural?

 

[Sam Gamgee]

He took his entire family, and their wives / husbands, as well as two of every animal. Unless you think his sons and daughters were different species of animal than Noah was, your analogy is flawed. We have sentience and souls which is contrary to animal nature.

oh... ok... I didn't know that about Noah.

So, you think animals don't have souls?

 

[Sam Gamgee]

If you felt drawn to be abused by someone because you felt inferior, and hated it at the same time, would that be natural?

I don't know... that wasn't part of my analogy.

But, answer your question, yes, that's a perfectly natural reaction to some sort of unnatural act in the past. If you felt drawn to be abused because you felt inferior, chances are you had really bad parents who didn't provide you with the appropriate upbringing...

That upbringing caused the emotions... and those emotions are compelely natural... Now, it is up to that person to get the psychological help to work on those emotions and have a better life.

 

[intricatic]

oh... ok... I didn't know that about Noah.

So, you think animals don't have souls?

Not exactly, I think they progress in a state of being after death, but not that it's attribuable to having a soul. If they do, they have a very strange state of being now that's totally alien to humans.

 

[JunkYardDog]

Animals are not made in the image of God. Man is.

 

[Sam Gamgee]

Not exactly, I think they progress in a state of being after death, but not that it's attribuable to having a soul. If they do, they have a very strange state of being now that's totally alien to humans.

that's an interesting philosophy...

So, animals are alien to humans in your opinion. Coming from a science background, I can't agree with you. DNA studies prove how similar we all are... how similar humans are to animals...

I think it would be a safe bet that you have never owned a dog.

 

[JunkYardDog]

What if I told you that I agreed with you and that I do not have anal sex for those exact reasons.

Does that make me "natural" in your eyes? If I only practice in oral sex with my male lover, I must be natural by your definition.

Cool!!!

Oral sex isn't sex -- if you believe Bill Clinton.

The Bible prohibits a man lying with a man as he does with woman. Oral stimulation is part of the range of sexual activities a man has with a woman, so is prohibited for men to do between themselves.

Sorry, Sam. Repent.