Against Ecumenism

St. Tikon · Mar 8, 2004

Suzannah said:
You have not answered my question. If you feel so strongly that you cannot have dialogue with other people at CF without bashing them over the head regarding ecumenism, why are you here?

I don't call posting a letter from a Bishop of the Church "bashing" anyone.
And I am here because I want to be here.

Oblio · Mar 8, 2004

/me wonders where any of us has violated the commands of our Church on this board, except perhaps WRT letting passions control our posts ...

All of us should remember that our rights on this board are as guests of Erwin, and as such entail the following of his rules and those enacted and enforced by Staff and Managment. We have no rights beyond that.

Oblio · Mar 8, 2004

While it may not be overtly bashing, given the fracas over the past few days, I wonder as to the agenda of a post by anyone that is titled Against ...

St. Tikon · Mar 8, 2004

Suzannah said:
Why do you wish to imply that the rest of us don't obey our superiors without question?

If the shoe fits......

Suzannah · Mar 8, 2004

St. Tikon said:
I don't call posting a letter from a Bishop of the Church "bashing" anyone.
And I am here because I want to be here.

Well, I'm very glad you are here and wish to be friends. But my other questions still stand. We would sincerely like to know how we have offended our respective Patriarchs....I very much love mine and he has never sent me an email telling me i am to be argumentative with Copts, or other "non-Traditional" Orthodox.

Photini · Mar 8, 2004

St. Tikon said:
You may notice, that with the exception of the help I gave on the Mormon Thread, I do NOT go and debate on any other parts of this forum.

I've quit appearing in other parts of the forum too. I've popped over into OBOB once or twice in the past couple of weeks...but probably won't anymore.

Suzannah · Mar 8, 2004

St. Tikon said:
If the shoe fits......

Which one? And how do you know I still have feet?

St. Tikon · Mar 8, 2004

Suzannah said:
Well, I'm very glad you are here and wish to be friends. But my other questions still stand. We would sincerely like to know how we have offended our respective Patriarchs....I very much love mine and he has never sent me an email telling me i am to be argumentative with Copts, or other "non-Traditional" Orthodox.

Suzannah:

I am trying not to get to heated here. I am responding to statements made by Jeff, and he knows that. I don't know that anyone has offended a Patriarch?! My point is that we can't pick and choose which Canons etc. that we obey. I posted this, to show that I am by no means alone in my Traditional beliefs. With that said, Lets keep this debate civil, if possible.

Good Night to You, and God Bless!

Suzannah · Mar 8, 2004

St. Tikon said:
Suzannah:

I am trying not to get to heated here. I am responding to statements made by Jeff, and he knows that. I don't know that anyone has offended a Patriarch?! My point is that we can't pick and choose which Canons etc. that we obey. I posted this, to show that I am by no means alone in my Traditional beliefs. With that said, Lets keep this debate civil, if possible.

Good Night to You, and God Bless!

Was it something I said???

I am still not getting this. Which Cannons have we not obeyed? And which "superiors" have we not obeyed?
Please be specific.

St. Tikon · Mar 8, 2004

I am going to saY GOODNIGHT, and wish you a pleasant sleep.

God Be with you!

emil_g · Mar 9, 2004

jeffthefinn said:
Unless we say that all Christian bodies are null and void, except us, that would speak against ecumenicalism. But most Orthodox do not hold that view at all, I was chrismated into the Church, my Lutheran Baptism was valid, and I was considered a Christian. Given that ecumenicalism is a must. Our Church needs to engage the other Christians in dialogue, needs to cooperate with them when it comes to human need. If we did not want to engage in ecumenical activity, none of us would be posting on Christian Forums, which is a cyberland grass roots ecumenical movement.
Jeff the Finn

I agree with you

emil_g · Mar 9, 2004

Osel said:
Ecumenism is heresy

Why?

prodromos · Mar 9, 2004

As Oblio asked, how do you define ecumenism?

IMHO the title of the thread should read "Against False Ecumenism".

John.

Reader Nilus · Mar 9, 2004

Archbishop Vitaly is not my superior, nor is ROCOR. ROCOR, which is not in communion with the OCA or the MP. My Bishops are involved with the NCC and WCC, which is fine by me. We have not sold our beliefs down the river.
We can live in fear and bury the talent given us, or we can live in the hope of the Resurrection and share our faith with all people. We do not sell out by listening to folks that are not us, we may even learn something.
Fundamentalists have a fear of the one world religion. They think that the WCC is going to usher in the age of the anti-Christ. We also have Our Lord's prayer that they may be one even as we are one. We know all the division amongst Christians is caused by sin, our sin. One of the first things that can be done is to realize that those folks that meet at the church across the street from ours are not devils, are not the scum of the earth, and in fact are folks just like us. It seems Biblically in the Old Testament Israel felt that it had a lock on the promises of God and wanted to keep it for themselves, but the prophets rose up and said it was for all people. Where best to show forth the Light of Orthodoxy than in the ecumenical movement? We do not need to circle the wagons in fear.
Jeff the Finn

Dominus Fidelis · Mar 9, 2004

Osel said:
The ecumenical patriarch needs to cease his coddling of the roman catholics. Ecumenism is heresy, they shouted on Mt. Athos.

Do you hate us Osel?

emil_g · Mar 9, 2004

prodromos said:
As Oblio asked, how do you define ecumenism?

Hello John

As Augustine said:"In essentials, unity; in doubtful matters, liberty; in all things, charity"

I think the Ecumenism is a good platform for sharing our faith with other christians.

Euphrosynos · Mar 9, 2004

emil_g said:
I agree with you

Of course the Canons, the Rudder that steers the Church does not. There is no Grace outside the Church and no Church but Orthodoxy. Sadly, many of the hierarchy of World(ly) Orthodoxy have thrown out the Rudder to the Ship of Faith and instead have plotted a new course down into the waters of sin.

When chrismation was used before IN EKONOMIA it was to fill an empty form IF a form was done correctly. But no people teach and believe the heresy that outside the Church mysteries of heretics have Grace. Sad when Tradition and Patristic teachings are thrown out for happy feelings and political correctness of accepting the heterodox as being anything other than what they truly are, Heretics needing the Grace of God in His Church.

Dominus Fidelis · Mar 9, 2004

Euphrosynos said:
Of course the Canons, the Rudder that steers the Church does not. There is no Grace outside the Church and no Church but Orthodoxy. Sadly, many of the hierarchy of World(ly) Orthodoxy have thrown out the Rudder to the Ship of Faith and instead have plotted a new course down into the waters of sin.

When chrismation was used before IN EKONOMIA it was to fill an empty form IF a form was done correctly. But no people teach and believe the heresy that outside the Church mysteries of heretics have Grace. Sad when Tradition and Patristic teachings are thrown out for happy feelings and political correctness of accepting the heterodox as being anything other than what they truly are, Heretics needing the Grace of God in His Church.

So Catholics are heretics in your opinion?

emil_g · Mar 9, 2004

Hello Euphrosynos!

Sad when Tradition and Patristic teachings are thrown out for happy feelings and political correctness of accepting the heterodox as being anything other than what they truly are, Heretics needing the Grace of God in His Church.

I agree with you too. But seems to me that difference between the orthodoxy and the heterodoxy are deeper than we would think.
Tell me, why our Church recognizes catholic's (lutheran's, anglican's) christening and ordination?

I think the main doctrinal differences between us like filioque is the result of terminological misunderstanding (from Son or through Son). And we should try to overcome disagreements between us.

prodromos · Mar 9, 2004

Sorry emil, I wasn't directing my question at you but generally to those involved in the discussion

I agree wholeheartedly with your quote from Augustine, though unfortunately it is in the "essentials" that we are not in unity with the other "churches".

John.

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