afterlife

[formerjw]

I'm looking for some solid info on the orthodox view of the soul after death. What I've gathered is we receive a partial reward or punishment, but do not receive the the fianl judgement until the second coming of Christ. Where is our soul until then? How do the "tollhouses" play into our judgement prior to the second coming and does hell already exist before the second coming? Thanks

 

[ProScribe]

[edit]

 

[Lukaris]

Here is an Orthodox position from a catechism http://orthodoxeurope.org/page/10/1.aspx#51 and as far as the toll house doctrine, I really do not believe most Orthodox laity are even aware of it. It is permissable to accept or reject the toll house doctrine; personally, I reject it. Here is a brief commentary on it http://www.stlukeorthodox.com/html/evangelist/2000/deathtoll.htm I would like to add that St.Ignatius Brianchaniniv (19th c bishop) is quoted in the catechism I have linked & also as a proponent of the toll house concept. Pesonally I revere him as a saint and also reject toll houses.

 

[NyssaTheHobbit]

Also see:
http://www.oca.org/OCIndex-TOC.asp?SID=2&book=Spirituality&section=The%20Kingdom of Heaven

 

[Kristos]

I'm looking for some solid info on the orthodox view of the soul after death. What I've gathered is we receive a partial reward or punishment, but do not receive the the fianl judgement until the second coming of Christ. Where is our soul until then? How do the "tollhouses" play into our judgement prior to the second coming and does hell already exist before the second coming? Thanks

Don't worry about the future, live in the present. Trust that God has prepared a place for you.

 

[formerjw]

Thanks for your posts, I found the links informative. I was able to gleam so info for my students in Sunday school (9th-12th). I encourage questions and questioning as a way to have an idea where their minds/hearts are at. Thanks again, May tomorrow's procession of the Holy Cross serve as a reminder of our goal and why this Great Lenten season is set before those who wish to embark on this journey!

 

[Lukaris]

Thanks for your posts, I found the links informative. I was able to gleam so info for my students in Sunday school (9th-12th). I encourage questions and questioning as a way to have an idea where their minds/hearts are at. Thanks again, May tomorrow's procession of the Holy Cross serve as a reminder of our goal and why this Great Lenten season is set before those who wish to embark on this journey!

May we also extend our thanks and appreciation to those of you who help educate the future faithful. God bless.

 

[buzuxi02]

The best and least sensationalistic book on the afterlife is by bishop Athenagoras Cavadas who wtote it about 60 years ago called "The World Beyond the Grave Or the Afterlife", first published in 1988 by Holy Cross.

Amazon.com: The World Beyond the Grave: Or the After Life: Athenagoras Cavadas, Archbishop Athenagoras, Constantine J. Andrew...

 

[Ignatius21]

If I may ask a question (that's probably answered in the book referenced above but I doubt I'll have time to read it anytime soon) from the perspective of someone unfamiliar with Orthodoxy...

I understand the doctrines of most Western branches of Christianity concerning the afterlife. True or not, they're consistent and logical. In the Catholic view, anyone who dies in communion with the church but without perfect holiness (described in that system in a very merit-focused way), they enter Purgatory where they are cleansed of remaining sin--essentially receiving temporal punishments for sins committed in this life, and receiving merit through sufferings, prayers of those on earth, and indulgences. Disclaimer: I completely reject purgatory, indulgences and the system of racking up merit. However as a Protestant I do believe that our standing before God is based entirely on the merit of Christ--thus all who die in communion with Christ are already justified (yes, in a legal and declarative sense) though not yet fully sanctified. As to what happens beyond the grave, I don't claim to be able to know with any certainty, although the soul must become truly pure to be in God's presence and be glorified.

In the Orthodox view, if somebody dies without complete "theosis" there's no purgatory in which to suffer, yet union with God is not based solely on the merits of Christ, so I'm confused as to what is believed about how the soul could continue to become holy when this life has ended.

I've never heard of a toll-house, except for the chocolate chip cookies

I may very well be thinking in categories that are entirely separate from Eastern thought. It's a very challenging thing for me to get my head around. But many here seem to be converts, thus you've probably come from a Western mindset, so maybe you can explain in terms I'll understand?

 

[Lukaris]

If I may ask a question (that's probably answered in the book referenced above but I doubt I'll have time to read it anytime soon) from the perspective of someone unfamiliar with Orthodoxy...

I understand the doctrines of most Western branches of Christianity concerning the afterlife. True or not, they're consistent and logical. In the Catholic view, anyone who dies in communion with the church but without perfect holiness (described in that system in a very merit-focused way), they enter Purgatory where they are cleansed of remaining sin--essentially receiving temporal punishments for sins committed in this life, and receiving merit through sufferings, prayers of those on earth, and indulgences. Disclaimer: I completely reject purgatory, indulgences and the system of racking up merit. However as a Protestant I do believe that our standing before God is based entirely on the merit of Christ--thus all who die in communion with Christ are already justified (yes, in a legal and declarative sense) though not yet fully sanctified. As to what happens beyond the grave, I don't claim to be able to know with any certainty, although the soul must become truly pure to be in God's presence and be glorified.

In the Orthodox view, if somebody dies without complete "theosis" there's no purgatory in which to suffer, yet union with God is not based solely on the merits of Christ, so I'm confused as to what is believed about how the soul could continue to become holy when this life has ended.

I've never heard of a toll-house, except for the chocolate chip cookies

I may very well be thinking in categories that are entirely separate from Eastern thought. It's a very challenging thing for me to get my head around. But many here seem to be converts, thus you've probably come from a Western mindset, so maybe you can explain in terms I'll understand?

I think much of the Orthodox perspective towards our salvation can be explained by the continual need for accountability in our earthly life in conformity to the salvation that Jesus Christ has given to man much according to what St.Paul preaches in the epistle to the Romans. We must remember that in Acts 26:20 St. Paul teaches that works worthy of repentance must follow our repentance which we must also understand that we our unworthy servants doing what is required of us (Luke 17:10 of which St. Diadachos (5th c.?) has a good teaching on in the Philokalia vol.1). I also think what the prophet St. Ezekiel says, "When the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and commiteth iniquity, he shall die thereby. But if the wicked turn from his wickedness, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall live thereby." (Ezekiel 33:18-19 KJV, also read Ezekiel 18 & 33:10-20 to see the fullness of the prophets preaching here). Of course we are at the mercy of the Lord and He will accept our repentance within the bounds of our circumstances (like the repentant thief on the cross).

 

[ArmyMatt]

well, when someone dies and is not as pure as he can be, if that person has a heart for Christ, the consuming fire that is the presence of God is what will purify and enlighten him. so we would cast a soul like that on God's mercy and love. this is why, with very few exceptions, the Orthodox never talk about the state of the soul of another. God's mercy is that great that we don't dare pronounce His judgments before He does.

and I think something else to keep in mind: theosis is never complete. you can always become more like an infinite God, so theosis continues into eternity, even after the Last Judgment.

as far as toll houses are concerned. toll houses are a tricky theory in the Church (not dogma so you will find people on both sides of this fence) that pretty much states that after the soul dies and ascends to heaven, the demons try to impede the souls progression, and the angels come to help. now I personally do believe in the toll houses, but again, it's not doctrine.

more or less, don't concern yourself about these things, but live in the present moment, and prepare for when you come to meet Christ, He is your loving and dread Judge.