After Death

[disciple Clint]

How would you answer the question: What happens after we die?

 

[.Mikha'el.]

The soul descends to She'ol and remains asleep until the time of final judgement.

 

[St_Worm2]

Hello @disciple Clint, the historic Christian Church (all of it, Protestant, Catholic, Orthodox, Anglican, Baptist, Lutheran, etc.) has always taught that, during the Intermediate State (which is the period of time from our death until our bodily resurrection at the end of the age), the saints are both conscious and at home with the Lord, even as our bodies lie interred in the ground.

The reason for this consistency of belief within the church as a whole is because of what the Bible has to say about it. Here are some of the verses/passages that continue to convince the church that the doctrine of the sleep of the soul is heretical.

Matthew 17
1 Six days later Jesus took with Him Peter and James and John his brother, and led them up on a high mountain by themselves.
2 And He was transfigured before them; and His face shone like the sun, and His garments became as white as light.
3 And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with Him.
4 Peter said to Jesus, “Lord, it is good for us to be here; if You wish, I will make three tabernacles here, one for You, and one for Moses, and one for Elijah.”
5 While he was still speaking, a bright cloud overshadowed them, and behold, a voice out of the cloud said, “This is My beloved Son, with whom I am well-pleased; listen to Him!”
6 When the disciples heard this, they fell face down to the ground and were terrified.
7 And Jesus came to them and touched them and said, “Get up, and do not be afraid.”
8 And lifting up their eyes, they saw no one except Jesus Himself alone.

Luke 16
19 There was a rich man, and he habitually dressed in purple and fine linen, joyously living in splendor every day.
20 And a poor man named Lazarus was laid at his gate, covered with sores,
21 and longing to be fed with the crumbs which were falling from the rich man’s table; besides, even the dogs were coming and licking his sores.
22 Now the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham’s bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried.
23 In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried out and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Child, remember that during your life you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things; but now he is being comforted here, and you are in agony.
26 And besides all this, between us and you there is a great chasm fixed, so that those who wish to come over from here to you will not be able, and that none may cross over from there to us.
27 And he said, Then I beg you, father, that you send him to my father’s house—
28 for I have five brothers—in order that he may warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.
29 But Abraham said, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.
30 But he said, No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent!
31 But he said to him, If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead.

2 Corinthians 5
6 Therefore, being always of good courage, and knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord.
7 for we walk by faith, not by sight—
8 we are of good courage, I say, and prefer to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord.
9 Therefore we also have as ~our ambition~, whether at home or absent, ~to be pleasing to Him~.

Philippians 1
21 For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain.
22 But if I am to live on in the flesh, this will mean fruitful labor for me; and I do not know which to choose.
23 But I am hard-pressed from both directions, having the desire to depart and be with Christ, for that is very much better;
24 yet to remain on in the flesh is more necessary for your sake.

Revelation 6
9 When the Lamb broke the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God, and because of the testimony which they had maintained;
10 and they cried out with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, will You refrain from judging and avenging our blood on those who dwell on the earth?”
​

--David
p.s. - Here are a few things to consider. If our souls become lifeless (like our bodies are) in death, then:

1. Why was an exception made for Moses? (Elijah never died as you may remember, rather, has was taken to Heaven directly on a chariot of fire)

2. What does the Apostle mean when he speaks of being "absent from the body" and "at home with the Lord"?

3. How could we possibly make "pleasing God" our "ambition" in death if our souls are not alive/conscious after we die?

4. How could the Apostle Paul think that dying (rather than continuing on in fruitful service here, to both God and the church) could be some kind of "gain", or that an unconscious death of the soul could in any way be "very much better" than living on here would be?

5. How is it that the souls of the martyrs, whose bodies lie dead in the ground, cry out in a loud voice to the Lord?​

 

[IntriKate]

I believe we are immediately in Gods presence in his arm's for a long awaited hug where he wipes the pain from our eyes and we finally understand.

 

[ozso]

Apparently Paul went to heaven for a short while after he was stoned. Jesus told the thief on the cross "today you will be with me in paradise".

 

[Nathan@work]

How would you answer the question: What happens after we die?

Immediately or ultimately?

 

[ViaCrucis]

The simple answer is that nobody knows. But we have confidence that between death and resurrection we will be with the Lord.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Davy]

Like Ecclesiastes 12:5-7 says, the flesh goes back to the earth where it came from, and our spirit goes back to God Who gave it.

And in Matthew 10:28, Jesus showed our soul is not killed if our flesh is killed. So our soul is linked to our spirit that goes back to God at flesh death.

In 2 Corinthians 5, Paul said that if our earthly house were dissolved, we have another house not made with hands, but eternal in the heavens. This is about our "spiritual body" Paul taught in 1 Corinthians 15. It is a heavenly type body, and body like the angels (Matthew 22:30).

When our flesh dies, we are done with it. It is not our flesh that is resurrected. That kind of thinking is of this world, for those who cannot understand spiritual matters by The Holy Spirit.

Paul said that as we have borne the "image of the earthy", we shall also bear the "image of the heavenly". That means a heavenly type body of that other dimension of existence where God and the angels dwell. Jesus showed this in Luke 16 about Lazarus and the rich man, both having died and their bodies buried. Lazarus is carried by angels to the bosom of Abraham, and the rich man is carried to hell, across a great gulf fixed apart from where Abraham was seen.

The heavenly dimension of Spirit existed first, before the creation. God is a Spirit per John 4. The creation of material matter originated from God's Spirit, He spoke and it came to pass. This is why material matter cannot be created nor destroyed, but only change its state (solid, liquid, gas, vapor). Only God can destroy it. And it means matter did not create itself. That other dimension that is not material matter is what created matter, not the other way around.

The two different dimensions can exist together in the same time and space. This was when God literally lived upon this ancient earth, His Paradise was here, on earth, and it is written that it will return to this earth.

 

[ozso]

Sometimes I've gotten a little freaked out over Heaven, when I picture it as a vast gleaming ethereal strange place. But really I think it will seem more like home than life on Earth.

 

[Kobo]

How would you answer the question: What happens after we die?

When an unbeliever dies, he/she perish in the grave i.e. his mind, soul, and spirit ceases to exist, the condemnation of sin which is death placed on those who die in their sins since the time of Adam.

However, since Jesus Christ arrived on the scene, the landscape changed such that all those who believe in Jesus Christ are redeemed from the condemnation of sin(Death) and instead gifted with eternal life(life after death). Those who believe, do not perish when they take their last breath on this earth. Instead, they sleep in their graves, awaiting the time of Jesus Christ's return.

Now since Salvation does not guarantee that the gift of eternal life received will be spent in Heaven, it follows that not all those who believe will end up in Heaven, when Jesus Christ returns. So, for some Heaven awaits while for others Hell is the final destination.

 

[Davy]

When an unbeliever dies, he/she perish in the grave i.e. his mind, soul, and spirit ceases to exist, the condemnation of sin which is death placed on those who die in their sins since the time of Adam.

However, since Jesus Christ arrived on the scene, the landscape changed such that all those who believe in Jesus Christ are redeemed from the condemnation of sin(Death) and instead gifted with eternal life(life after death). Those who believe, do not perish when they take their last breath on this earth. Instead, they sleep in their graves, awaiting the time of Jesus Christ's return.

Now since Salvation does not guarantee that the gift of eternal life received will be spent in Heaven, it follows that not all those who believe will end up in Heaven, when Jesus Christ returns. So, for some Heaven awaits while for others Hell is the final destination.

That is simply not Scriptural. The wicked dead will have a resurrection also, called the "resurrection of damnation" (John 5:28-29).

God's Great White Throne Judgment of the wicked is not until after Jesus' return and after His reign for a thousand years (Revelation 20).

And no one is literally asleep in a casket out in the backyard. Like Ecclesiastes 12:5-7 shows, at flesh death our flesh goes back to the earth where it came from, but our spirit goes back to God Who gave it. Attached to that spirit is our soul, as Jesus showed in Matthew 10:28 to not fear those who can kill our flesh body, but not our soul, but fear Him Who can destroy both body and soul in the future "lake of fire" (i.e., the "second death" of Rev.20). That means the soul continues to God also at flesh death. This is what Jesus showed in Luke 16 with the story of Lazarus and the rich man. And the malefactor crucified with Jesus that believed, Jesus also showed that one would be with Him in Paradise that day.

 

[ozso]

Now since Salvation does not guarantee that the gift of eternal life received will be spent in Heaven, it follows that not all those who believe will end up in Heaven, when Jesus Christ returns. So, for some Heaven awaits while for others Hell is the final destination.

Where on earth did you get that from?

 

[Kobo]

Where on earth did you get that from?

From reading through the teachings of Jesus Christ as is documented in the 4 Gospels. Jesus Christ gave us about 46 commandments none of which is a rule on how to be buried as a follower of Jesus Christ.
Where there are no rules provided as part of the New Covenant(Jesus Christ) we are commanded against adding any of own.

 

[Kobo]

That is simply not Scriptural. The wicked dead will have a resurrection also, called the "resurrection of damnation" (John 5:28-29).

God's Great White Throne Judgment of the wicked is not until after Jesus' return and after His reign for a thousand years (Revelation 20).

And no one is literally asleep in a casket out in the backyard. Like Ecclesiastes 12:5-7 shows, at flesh death our flesh goes back to the earth where it came from, but our spirit goes back to God Who gave it. Attached to that spirit is our soul, as Jesus showed in Matthew 10:28 to not fear those who can kill our flesh body, but not our soul, but fear Him Who can destroy both body and soul in the future "lake of fire" (i.e., the "second death" of Rev.20). That means the soul continues to God also at flesh death. This is what Jesus showed in Luke 16 with the story of Lazarus and the rich man. And the malefactor crucified with Jesus that believed, Jesus also showed that one would be with Him in Paradise that day.

Read through the Gospel of John, and you will see that beginning from Chapter 3, you already told that only those who believe are gifted with eternal life(an afterlife) whereas those who do not believe remain condemned to die in their graves(perish/cease to exist) a judgement that has been in place since the time of Adam, reiterated by God in Ezekiel 18.

In John 10, you are told that only those who believe in Jesus Christ hear His voice. When He returns and calls out to those who are sleeping in their graves(the believers who are dead), they will hear His voice be raised to be judged. Those of them who did good will be resurrected to eternal life in Heaven, whereas those who refuse His teachings/did not do good will be raised to eternal damnation(John 6:19-29). Also, see Matthew 25:31-46.

 

[Davy]

Read through the Gospel of John, and you will see that beginning from Chapter 3, you already told that only those who believe are gifted with eternal life(an afterlife) whereas those who do not believe remain condemned to die in their graves(perish/cease to exist) a judgement that has been in place since the time of Adam, reiterated by God in Ezekiel 18.

In John 10, you are told that only those who believe in Jesus Christ hear His voice. When He returns and calls out to those who are sleeping in their graves(the believers who are dead), they will hear His voice be raised to be judged. Those of them who did good will be resurrected to eternal life in Heaven, whereas those who refuse His teachings/did not do good will be raised to eternal damnation(John 6:19-29). Also, see Matthew 25:31-46.

Your interpretation of 'when' the wicked are condemned is lacking. Study Christ's Book of Revelation, for there is more to it, and that's why He gave it to us.

In John 5:28-29, Jesus said ALL in the graves will hear His voice at His coming, and shall resurrect. So you need to quit mis-quoting Scripture.

John 5:28-29
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear His voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
KJV

 

[ViaCrucis]

Sometimes I've gotten a little freaked out over Heaven, when I picture it as a vast gleaming ethereal strange place. But really I think it will seem more like home than life on Earth.

Well, for one, "heaven" isn't our eternal home. The earth is. This earth which we stand upon right now, God is going to make it brand new.

"Heaven" is simply the pit stop between death and resurrection.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Kobo]

Your interpretation of 'when' the wicked are condemned is lacking. Study Christ's Book of Revelation, for there is more to it, and that's why He gave it to us.

In John 5:28-29, Jesus said ALL in the graves will hear His voice at His coming, and shall resurrect. So you need to quit mis-quoting Scripture.

John 5:28-29
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear His voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
KJV

I didn't misquote the verse though.

If you had followed what I said in a previous comment, you would have noted that I explained that unbelievers perish when they die i.e. are returned to the dust from which God created them and so they are not in their graves at all, just as it was the case with Adam before them.

So when in John 5, all those who are in their graves will be raised, in fact, they are those who believe, who had been sleeping in their graves, waiting for Jesus Christ's return.

 

[Taodeching]

How would you answer the question: What happens after we die?

No one knows. Hopefully some go to Heaven

 

[Daniel Marsh]

1 Thessalonians 3:13
To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

Jude 1:14
And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Isaiah 14
Easy-to-Read Version
Israel Will Return Home
14 The Lord will again show his love to Jacob. He will again choose the people of Israel. He will give them their land. Then the non-Israelites[a] will join the Israelites, and both will become one family—Jacob’s family. 2 Those nations will bring the Israelites back to their land. The men and women from the other nations will become slaves to Israel. In the past, those people forced the Israelites to become their slaves. But in the future the Israelites will defeat those nations, and Israel will then rule over them in the Lord’s land. 3 In the past, you were slaves. People forced you to work hard. But the Lord will take away the hard work you were forced to do.

A Song About the King of Babylon
4 At that time you will begin to sing this song about the king of Babylon:

The king was cruel when he ruled us,
but now his rule is finished.
5 The Lord breaks the scepter of evil rulers;
he takes away their power.
6 In anger, the king of Babylon beat the people.
He never stopped beating them.
He was an evil ruler who ruled in anger.
He never stopped hurting people.
7 But now, the whole country rests and is quiet.
Now the people begin to celebrate.
8 You were an evil king,
and now you are finished.
Even the pine trees are happy.
The cedar trees of Lebanon rejoice.
They say, “The king chopped us down,
but now the king has fallen,
and he will never stand again.”
9 The place of death is excited
that you are coming.
Sheol is waking the spirits
of all the leaders of the earth for you.
Sheol is making the kings stand up
from their thrones to meet you.
10 They will make fun of you, saying,
“Now you are as dead as we are.
Now you are just like us.”
11 Your pride has been sent down to Sheol.
The music from your harps announces the coming of your proud spirit.
Maggots will be the bed you lie on,
and other worms will cover your body like a blanket.
12 You were like the morning star,
but you have fallen from the sky.
In the past, all the nations on earth bowed down before you,
but now you have been cut down.
13 You always told yourself,
“I will go to the skies above.
I will put my throne above God’s stars.
I will sit on Zaphon, the holy mountain where the gods meet.
14 I will go up to the altar above the tops of the clouds.
I will be like God Most High.”

15 But that did not happen.
You were brought down to the deep pit—Sheol, the place of death.
16 People will come to look at your dead body.
They will think about you and say,
“Is this the same man
who caused great fear in all the kingdoms on earth,
17 who destroyed cities
and turned the land into a desert,
who captured people in war
and would not let them go home?”
18 The kings of other nations lie buried with honor,
each king with his own grave.
19 But you were thrown out of your grave
like a branch cut from a tree and thrown away.
You are like a dead man who fell in battle,
trampled under the feet of other soldiers.
Now you look like any other dead man
wrapped in burial clothes.
20 Other kings have their own graves,
but you will not join them,
because you ruined your own country
and killed your own people.
So your wicked descendants will be stopped.

21 Prepare to kill his children,
because their father is guilty.
His children will never take control of the land.
They will never fill the world with their cities.

22 The Lord All-Powerful said, “I will stand and fight against those people. I will destroy the famous city, Babylon. I will destroy all the people there. I will destroy their children, their grandchildren, and their great-grandchildren.” The Lord himself said this.

23 “I will change Babylon. It will be a place for animals,[c] not people. It will be a swamp. I will use the ‘broom of destruction’ to sweep Babylon away.” The Lord All-Powerful said this.

God Will Also Punish Assyria
24 The Lord All-Powerful made this promise: “This will happen exactly as I meant for it to happen. It will happen just the way I planned. 25 I will destroy the king of Assyria in my country. I will walk on him on my mountains. He forced my people to be his slaves; he put a yoke on their necks. But that pole will be taken off Judah’s neck, and that burden will be removed. 26 This is what I plan to do for this land. I will use my power to punish all those nations.”

27 When the Lord All-Powerful makes a plan, no one can change it. When he raises his arm to punish, no one can stop him.

God’s Message to Philistia
28 This message[d] was given to me the year King Ahaz died[e]:

29 Country of Philistia, don’t be happy that the king who beat you is now dead. It is true that his rule has ended, but his son will come and rule. It will be like one snake giving birth to a more dangerous one. The new king will be like a quick and dangerous snake to you. 30 But even the poorest of my people will be able to eat safely. And their children will be able to lie down and feel safe. But I will make your family die from hunger, and your enemy will kill anyone who survives.

31 People near the city gates, cry!
People in the city, cry out!
Everyone in Philistia,
your courage will melt like hot wax.

Look to the north!
There is a cloud of dust.
An army is coming,
and everyone in that army is strong.[f]
32 But what will the messengers from that nation report about us?
They will say, “The Lord made Zion strong,
and his poor people went there for safety.”