LDS After All You can do

drstevej · Aug 11, 2018

LDS Bible Dictionary:

Divine grace is needed by every soul in consequence of the fall of Adam and also because of man’s weaknesses and shortcomings. However, grace cannot suffice without total effort on the part of the recipient. Hence the explanation, ‘It is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do’ (2 Ne. 25:23).

So here is my question in five parts to LDS folks here:

Have you personally done all you can do:

today ? [YES] [NO]
yesterday? [YES] [NO]
last week? [YES] [NO]
last month? [YES] [NO]
last year? [YES] [NO]

Please just answer the question rather than derailing, avoiding the question or changing the subject

Jane_Doe · Aug 11, 2018

It helps to include the entire passage of scripture (bolding mine, since this is kind of long for a post). Note, this passage if from a BC time period when folks keep the Law of Moses:

"23 For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.

24 And, notwithstanding we believe in Christ, we keep the law of Moses, and look forward with steadfastness unto Christ, until the law shall be fulfilled.

25 For, for this end was the law given; wherefore the law hath become dead unto us, and we are made alive in Christ because of our faith; yet we keep the law because of the commandments

"26 And we talk of Christ, we rejoice in Christ, we preach of Christ, we prophesy of Christ, and we write according to our prophecies, that our children may know to what source they may look for a remission of their sins.

27 Wherefore, we speak concerning the law that our children may know the deadness of the law; and they, by knowing the deadness of the law, may look forward unto that life which is in Christ, and know for what end the law was given. And after the law is fulfilled in Christ, that they need not harden their hearts against him when the law ought to be done away.

28 And now behold, my people, ye are a stiffneckedpeople; wherefore, I have spoken plainly unto you, that ye cannot misunderstand. And the words which I have spoken shall stand as a testimony against you; for they are sufficient to teach any man the right way; for the right way is to believe in Christ and deny him not; for by denying him ye also deny the prophets and the law.

29 And now behold, I say unto you that the right way is to believe in Christ, and deny him not; and Christ is the Holy One of Israel; wherefore ye must bow down before him, and worship him with all your might, mind, and strength, and your whole soul; and if ye do this ye shall in nowise be cast out."

Greater context: https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/2-ne/25

drstevej · Aug 11, 2018

Have you personally done all you can do:

today ? [YES] [NO]
yesterday? [YES] [NO]
last week? [YES] [NO]
last month? [YES] [NO]
last year? [YES] [NO]

drstevej · Aug 11, 2018

Please just answer the question rather than derailing, avoiding the question or changing the subject

Jane_Doe · Aug 11, 2018

drstevej said:
Please just answer the question rather than derailing, avoiding the question or changing the subject

I am just addressing the verse you quoted in your OP. If that is not ok, I'll quit responding.

drstevej · Aug 11, 2018

Please just answer the question rather than derailing, avoiding the question or changing the subject.

drstevej · Aug 11, 2018

Have you personally done all you can do:

today ? [YES] [NO]
yesterday? [YES] [NO]
last week? [YES] [NO]
last month? [YES] [NO]
last year? [YES] [NO]

Rescued One · Aug 11, 2018

There is no Mormon who has ever done all he/she can do. The Mormons have scripture that says a person can keep every commandment, but I haven't met any perfect Mormons. Which one can have eternal life?

"This Church is the ensign on the mountain spoken of by the Old Testament prophets. It is the way, the truth, and the life. "
Marion G. Romney, Conference Report, April, 1961, p. 119

Therefore it was made clearly manifest that salvation is in the Church, and of the Church, and is obtained only through the Church.
Mark E. Petersen, Salvation Comes through the Church, Ensign, July 1973

Which Mormon was made perfect by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

We can tell Mormons about Jesus and the payment He made, but each Mormon's conversion depends on God.

Only God can deliver us.

Colossians 1
9 For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding; 10 That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God; 11 Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness; 12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:

God begins and completes the work. He picks us up when we fall.

Philippians 1
6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

Rescued One · Aug 11, 2018

Jane_Doe said:
I am just addressing the verse you quoted in your OP. If that is not ok, I'll quit responding.

Why would a church teach its members to continually dodge questions?

HTacianas · Aug 11, 2018

drstevej said:
LDS Bible Dictionary:

Divine grace is needed by every soul in consequence of the fall of Adam and also because of man’s weaknesses and shortcomings. However, grace cannot suffice without total effort on the part of the recipient. Hence the explanation, ‘It is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do’ (2 Ne. 25:23).

So here is my question in five parts to LDS folks here:

Have you personally done all you can do:

today ? [YES] [NO]

yesterday? [YES] [NO]

last week? [YES] [NO]

last month? [YES] [NO]

last year? [YES] [NO]

Please just answer the question rather than derailing, avoiding the question or changing the subject

That sounds a lot like the "regular" bible.

OSAS 101 · Aug 11, 2018

Phoebe Ann said:
Oh, you must not know Mormonism. You see, according to Mormonism, the only way to access the atonement or any other blessing is through one's own obedience to the commandments.

“It is fair to conclude that spiritual and mental growth can be attained only by obedience to the laws on which they are predicated,” wrote Elder Albert E. Bowen. “If through diligence, observance of correct principles, discipline of the mind and of the spirit, a man attains to a fine development of personality in this life, surely it is not unreasonable to suppose that that will be his imperishable possession and glory in the life he enters upon after death. On the contrary, if through lethargy or sin his self-realization in his life is dwarfed, he shall be handicapped to that extent as he enters upon the new world.” (In Conference Report, Oct. 1937, p. 86.)

D&C 130:20–21. What Is the Law on Which All Blessings from God Depend?

Obedience is the basic law of heaven, and obedience to specific laws will result in specific blessings, culminating in the greatest blessing, as Elder Marion G. Romney explained: “The perfection upon which exaltation hangs, I repeat, is an individual matter. It is conditioned upon the observance of celestial laws as they apply to earth life. The Word of Wisdom is one of them, so also are chastity, tithing, observance of the Sabbath day, prayer, honesty, industry, love of God and fellow men, patience, kindness, charity, and all the rest of the principles and ordinances of the gospel of Jesus Christ. Each individual who observes one or more of these laws shall receive the blessings predicated thereon, and each Church member who will, with all the energy of his soul, diligently strive to live them all, shall receive the blessings predicated upon such striving. Eternal life, the greatest gift of God, is that blessing, and it will follow the living of the gospel as the night the day, regardless of statistics or averages, or of what others think or say or do.” (In Conference Report, Oct. 1956, pp. 15–16; see also Enrichment G in the Appendix.)

https://www.lds.org/manual/doctrine...ual/section-130-items-of-instruction?lang=eng

This is true.
I do not know Mormons
I love the orchestra and choir though and that big music hall they have
I do not like how they all dress so conservatively

Rescued One · Aug 11, 2018

Jane_Doe said:
Actually, Mormons believe that we are saved through grace. This is not cheap grace wherein a person can half-heartedly say "yeah I believe in Christ" and then continue serving satan. Rather it is Christ's magnificent grace that caused even the Son of God to bleed, suffer, cry out, and die. We give our WHOLE self to Christ and serve Him-- yes, your heart, mind, might, soul, etc. Obviously a person is going to falter along the way here, hence repentance-- the big picture here is where your heart is.

The truth about Mormonism which you, once again, seem to be skirting around, is that blessings are not free. The Mormon is required to obey the laws.

Another thing that you appear to be trying to convince people of, is that Christians don't believe in glorifying God with the good work He begins in us.

Jane_Doe · Aug 11, 2018

OSAS 101 said:
Interesting response.

There is a TON of a false info out there about LDS beliefs. You'd be amazed at all the crazy rumors I've heard over the years.

Rescued One · Aug 11, 2018

OSAS 101 said:
All I have to go by is what I see on youtube and Lawrence Welk.
By the way, what is your take on Jesus?

Yes, Mormons should dress modestly and conservatively, but their conversion efforts are going to run into young people with tattoos and piercings. Mormon women should have only one earring in each ear. I'm no longer Mormon, but I don't have any tattoos or piercings.

Jane_Doe · Aug 11, 2018

Phoebe Ann said:
Another thing that you appear to be trying to convince people of, is that Christians don't believe in glorifying God with the good work He begins in us.

I never said such a thing and adamantly disagree with such a statement.

Rescued One · Aug 11, 2018

Mormons like to remind us that some people are mistaken about their culture and teachings.

I suggest lds.org and multiple lesson manuals. The lesson manuals are published by their church.

Rescued One · Aug 11, 2018

Jane_Doe said:
I never said such a thing and adamantly disagree with such a statement.

You usually disagree with anyone who knows Mormonism and clarifies it for others.

Rescued One · Aug 11, 2018

Doctrine and Covenants Student Manual, 1981, Enrichment G, p. 395

This illustration has been removed from the current manual, but the teaching still applies.

God has said that no one can come unto Him except by His laws. If we receive and obey His laws, then we will come to know God and become like Him, thus having eternal life. (See D&C 132:11–12, 21–25, 32; John 17:3). It is only by obedience to law that one can become sanctified. Those who, by their agency, submit to law and are governed by God’s laws are preserved, protected, and sanctified through the operation of those laws. Those who do not live the laws of God cannot be sanctified by the Savior through those laws; therefore, they must inherit a kingdom other than the celestial. Each of us must be able to abide by the law of the kingdom we inherit (see D&C 88:21–24; 34–35).
https://www.lds.org/manual/doctrine...ment-g-the-nature-and-purpose-of-law?lang=eng

MartyF · Aug 11, 2018

drstevej said:
LDS Bible Dictionary:

Divine grace is needed by every soul in consequence of the fall of Adam and also because of man’s weaknesses and shortcomings. However, grace cannot suffice without total effort on the part of the recipient. Hence the explanation, ‘It is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do’ (2 Ne. 25:23).

So here is my question in five parts to LDS folks here:

Have you personally done all you can do:

today ? [YES] [NO]

yesterday? [YES] [NO]

last week? [YES] [NO]

last month? [YES] [NO]

last year? [YES] [NO]

Please just answer the question rather than derailing, avoiding the question or changing the subject

Why did you bother asking this question?

It seems like you’re trying to convert to LDS.

In other contexts it makes no sense.

Marty

drstevej · Aug 11, 2018

MartyF said:
Why did you bother asking this question?
Marty

Answered in PM to you. now back to the OP

So here is my question in five parts to LDS folks here:

Have you personally done all you can do:

today ? [YES] [NO]

yesterday? [YES] [NO]

last week? [YES] [NO]

last month? [YES] [NO]

last year? [YES] [NO]

LDS After All You can do

"The crowd always chooses Barabbas."

Well-Known Member

"The crowd always chooses Barabbas."

"The crowd always chooses Barabbas."

Well-Known Member

"The crowd always chooses Barabbas."

"The crowd always chooses Barabbas."

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

Well-Known Member

Newbie

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

Well-Known Member

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

Well-Known Member

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

Active Member

"The crowd always chooses Barabbas."

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