LDS After All You can do

[devin553344]

LDS Bible Dictionary:

Divine grace is needed by every soul in consequence of the fall of Adam and also because of man’s weaknesses and shortcomings. However, grace cannot suffice without total effort on the part of the recipient. Hence the explanation, ‘It is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do’ (2 Ne. 25:23).

So here is my question in five parts to LDS folks here:

Have you personally done all you can do:

1. today ? [YES] [NO]
2. yesterday? [YES] [NO]
3. last week? [YES] [NO]
4. last month? [YES] [NO]
5. last year? [YES] [NO]

Please just answer the question rather than derailing, avoiding the question or changing the subject

My answer is Yes, I've personally done all I can do, every second of every day BTW I think most Christians do all they can do to be good people with good works.

 

[Semi]

LDS Bible Dictionary:

Divine grace is needed by every soul in consequence of the fall of Adam and also because of man’s weaknesses and shortcomings. However, grace cannot suffice without total effort on the part of the recipient. Hence the explanation, ‘It is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do’ (2 Ne. 25:23).

So here is my question in five parts to LDS folks here:

Have you personally done all you can do:

1. today ? [YES] [NO]
2. yesterday? [YES] [NO]
3. last week? [YES] [NO]
4. last month? [YES] [NO]
5. last year? [YES] [NO]

Please just answer the question rather than derailing, avoiding the question or changing the subject

Hello, drstevej. This is my first post here, so I'll jump right in.

First, my answer is "No" to all questions. Regardless of any personal effort I'm bound to do/be less than all I could possibly do/be.

Second, I'm saved by grace even after all I can do. I have no illusion my works can ever save me.

Third, I am saved by grace, period.

 

[Semi]

It helps to include the entire passage of scripture (bolding mine, since this is kind of long for a post). Note, this passage if from a BC time period when folks keep the Law of Moses:

"23 For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.
...

Greater context: https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/2-ne/25

Jane_Doe, I wanted to compliment you on your responses. You do LDS proud! Great job.

 

[Semi]

LDS Bible Dictionary:

Divine grace is needed by every soul in consequence of the fall of Adam and also because of man’s weaknesses and shortcomings. However, grace cannot suffice without total effort on the part of the recipient. Hence the explanation, ‘It is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do’ (2 Ne. 25:23).

So here is my question in five parts to LDS folks here:

Have you personally done all you can do:

1. today ? [YES] [NO]
2. yesterday? [YES] [NO]
3. last week? [YES] [NO]
4. last month? [YES] [NO]
5. last year? [YES] [NO]

Please just answer the question rather than derailing, avoiding the question or changing the subject

drstevej, I believe I've answered your questions, so I've one in return since you brought up the LDS Bible Dictionary. Here is the entire entry on Grace - which part(s) do you agree with?

Grace
A word that occurs frequently in the New Testament, especially in the writings of Paul. The main idea of the word is divine means of help or strength, given through the bounteous mercy and love of Jesus Christ.

It is through the grace of the Lord Jesus, made possible by His atoning sacrifice, that mankind will be raised in immortality, every person receiving his body from the grave in a condition of everlasting life. It is likewise through the grace of the Lord that individuals, through faith in the Atonement of Jesus Christ and repentance of their sins, receive strength and assistance to do good works that they otherwise would not be able to maintain if left to their own means. This grace is an enabling power that allows men and women to lay hold on eternal life and exaltation after they have expended their own best efforts.

Divine grace is needed by every soul in consequence of the Fall of Adam and also because of man’s weaknesses and shortcomings. However, grace cannot suffice without total effort on the part of the recipient. Hence the explanation, “It is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do” (2 Ne. 25:23). It is truly the grace of Jesus Christ that makes salvation possible. This principle is expressed in Jesus’ parable of the vine and the branches (John 15:1–11). See also John 1:12–17; Eph. 2:8–9; Philip. 4:13; D&C 93:11–14.

 

[twin.spin]

Hello, drstevej. This is my first post here, so I'll jump right in.

First, my answer is "No" to all questions. Regardless of any personal effort I'm bound to do/be less than all I could possibly do/be.

Second, I'm saved by grace even after all I can do. I have no illusion my works can ever save me.

Third, I am saved by grace, period.

Semi,
Mormonism's beliefs of what "grace" is different than Biblical Christianity.
As your post reads:

“This grace is an enabling power that allows men and women to lay hold on eternal life and exaltation after they have expended their own best efforts”

"However, grace cannot suffice without total effort on the part of the recipient."

"… we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do” (2 Nephi 25:23)​

Biblical Christianity teaches that "grace" is God’s unbelievable "love" for us.
The example of this love is Jesus’ doing everything to save us.
He kept the law perfectly for us. He died as payment for all our sins.
It is by this Biblical teaching of grace alone we are saved (Ephesians 2:8-9).

 

[Semi]

Semi,
Mormonism's beliefs of what "grace" is different than Biblical Christianity.
As your post reads:

“This grace is an enabling power that allows men and women to lay hold on eternal life and exaltation after they have expended their own best efforts”

"However, grace cannot suffice without total effort on the part of the recipient."
(LDS Bible Dictionary, p. 697).

"… we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do” (2 Nephi 25:23)​

Biblical Christianity teaches that "grace" is God’s unbelievable "love" for us.
The example of this love is Jesus’ doing everything to save us.
He kept the law perfectly for us. He died as payment for all our sins.
It is by this Biblical teaching of grace alone we are saved (Ephesians 2:8-9).

twin.spin, thank you for the response. I like your name "twin.spin" ... that is cool ... is there a story here?

Well, I don't want to argue per se, or debate per se, but what I can do is tell you what I believe. I know LDS doctines well and love the Bible and find perfect harmony. I know the Bible is the word of God, and I accept Jesus Christ as Redeemer. From my perspective, Mormonism is Biblical Christianity.

 

[twin.spin]

twin.spin, thank you for the response. I like your name "twin.spin" ... that is cool ... is there a story here?

Well, I don't want to argue per se, or debate per se, but what I can do is tell you what I believe. I know LDS doctines well and love the Bible and find perfect harmony. I know the Bible is the word of God, and I accept Jesus Christ as Redeemer. From my perspective, Mormonism is Biblical Christianity.

Yes actually there is a story about the name.
It used to be my business that sold used \ DVD's\ cddC \ video games and also get them resurfaced. As internet grew in popularity, it became clear that it's days were numbered. It was fun while it lasted.

Regarding the topic at hand, I understand when you say that you're not interested in arguing and debating.
As long as you stay involved in this forum, you will find that some are here to argue \ debate \ gotcha point while some like myself take official Mormon written material and contrast that with what God revealed in the Bible.

Why? Not to win a debate but to witness Christ as Biblical Christianity teaches.

 

[drstevej]

Hello, drstevej. This is my first post here, so I'll jump right in.

First, my answer is "No" to all questions. Regardless of any personal effort I'm bound to do/be less than all I could possibly do/be.

Second, I'm saved by grace even after all I can do. I have no illusion my works can ever save me.

Third, I am saved by grace, period.

So are you a Mormon who disagrees with the Book of Mormon?

 

[drstevej]

LDS Bible Dictionary:

Divine grace is needed by every soul in consequence of the fall of Adam and also because of man’s weaknesses and shortcomings. However, grace cannot suffice without total effort on the part of the recipient. Hence the explanation, ‘It is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do’ (2 Ne. 25:23).

So here is my question in five parts to LDS folks here:

Have you personally done all you can do:

1. today ? [YES] [NO]
2. yesterday? [YES] [NO]
3. last week? [YES] [NO]
4. last month? [YES] [NO]
5. last year? [YES] [NO]

Please just answer the question rather than derailing, avoiding the question or changing the subject

^^^ This is the OP. Please do not derail.

 

[Rescued One]

twin.spin, thank you for the response. I like your name "twin.spin" ... that is cool ... is there a story here?

Well, I don't want to argue per se, or debate per se, but what I can do is tell you what I believe. I know LDS doctines well and love the Bible and find perfect harmony. I know the Bible is the word of God, and I accept Jesus Christ as Redeemer. From my perspective, Mormonism is Biblical Christianity.

Mormonism denigrates the Bible, adds false doctrine and outright lies , making it an apostasy from the Gospel of Christ and the grace of God.

 

[Rescued One]

Hello, drstevej. This is my first post here, so I'll jump right in.

First, my answer is "No" to all questions. Regardless of any personal effort I'm bound to do/be less than all I could possibly do/be.

Second, I'm saved by grace even after all I can do. I have no illusion my works can ever save me.

Third, I am saved by grace, period.

Do your works access God's grace? Does your obedience enable you to receive God''s grace so that you can eventually obtain the blessing of eternal life?

 

[Rescued One]

You and Phoebe only believe the parts of the Bible you want to believe and ignore all of the rest of it. Perhaps it is a good thing that I can show you the parts your teachers do not teach:

(New Testament | Luke 14:26 - 33)

26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.
28 For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it?
29 Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish it, all that behold it begin to mock him,
30 Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish.
31 Or what king, going to make war against another king, sitteth not down first, and consulteth whether he be able with ten thousand to meet him that cometh against him with twenty thousand?
32 Or else, while the other is yet a great way off, he sendeth an ambassage, and desireth conditions of peace.
33 So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.

You haven't shown us anything other than the words of the Bible that we believe. Have you forsaken all? Does forsaking all mean that you forsake your family, your automobiles, and your computers?

 

[twin.spin]

LDS Bible Dictionary:

Divine grace is needed by every soul in consequence of the fall of Adam and also because of man’s weaknesses and shortcomings. However, grace cannot suffice without total effort on the part of the recipient. Hence the explanation, ‘It is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do’ (2 Ne. 25:23).

So here is my question in five parts to LDS folks here:

Have you personally done all you can do:

1. today ? [YES] [NO]
2. yesterday? [YES] [NO]
3. last week? [YES] [NO]
4. last month? [YES] [NO]
5. last year? [YES] [NO]

Please just answer the question rather than derailing, avoiding the question or changing the subject

The important word that also needs to be underlined is "all".
Every numbered question listed was Jesus' point when taking these two statements together:

1) "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." (Matt 5:48)

2) "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind." (Matt 22:37)
​

Have you personally done all you can do … perfectly:

1. today ? [YES] [NO]
2. yesterday? [YES] [NO]
3. last week? [YES] [NO]
4. last month? [YES] [NO]
5. last year? [YES] [NO]

As Phoebe's post #16 stated:

"according to Mormonism, the only way to access the atonement or any other blessing is through one's own obedience to the commandment."​

God wants us to witness how the Savior who covered us with his perfection and wiped away the stain of our horrendous failings. The Savior, in whom, and in whom alone, we are perfect right now through faith.

“This is the name by which he will be called: The Lord Our Righteousness” (Jeremiah 23:6).
​

 

[St. Helens]

MOD HAT ON

This thread has had to have a major clean up due to off topic posts. Please read the OP and stay on topic.
Your cooperation in this matter would be greatly appreciated.
MOD HAT OFF​

 

[He is the way]

The important word that also needs to be underlined is "all".
Every numbered question listed was Jesus' point when taking these two statements together:

1) "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." (Matt 5:48)

2) "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind." (Matt 22:37)
​

Have you personally done all you can do … perfectly:

1. today ? [YES] [NO]
2. yesterday? [YES] [NO]
3. last week? [YES] [NO]
4. last month? [YES] [NO]
5. last year? [YES] [NO]

As Phoebe's post #16 stated:

"according to Mormonism, the only way to access the atonement or any other blessing is through one's own obedience to the commandment."​

God wants us to witness how the Savior who covered us with his perfection and wiped away the stain of our horrendous failings. The Savior, in whom, and in whom alone, we are perfect right now through faith.

“This is the name by which he will be called: The Lord Our Righteousness” (Jeremiah 23:6).
​

Thank you twin.spin!

As you said:

"Every numbered question listed was Jesus' point when taking these two statements together:

1) "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." (Matt 5:48)"

2) "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind." (Matt 22:37)​

Have you personally done all you can do … perfectly:

1. today ? [YES] [NO]
2. yesterday? [YES] [NO]
3. last week? [YES] [NO]
4. last month? [YES] [NO]
5. last year? [YES] [NO]"

"As Phoebe's post #16 stated:

"according to Mormonism, the only way to access the atonement or any other blessing is through one's own obedience to the commandment.""

​

And this is Biblical

The atonement:

(Old Testament | Exodus 20:6)

6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

If a person loves Jesus he will keep the commandments:

(New Testament | John 14:15 - 24)

15 ¶ If ye love me, keep my commandments.
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

Life everlasting is through keeping the commandments:

(New Testament | John 12:50)

50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.


(New Testament | John 17:3)

3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

(New Testament | 1 John 2:4)

4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

 

[drstevej]

Here is the question:

So here is my question in five parts to LDS folks here:

Have you personally done all you can do:

1. today ? [YES] [NO]
2. yesterday? [YES] [NO]
3. last week? [YES] [NO]
4. last month? [YES] [NO]
5. last year? [YES] [NO]

Please just answer the question rather than derailing, avoiding the question or changing the subject.

 

[He is the way]

Here is the question:

So here is my question in five parts to LDS folks here:

Have you personally done all you can do:

1. today ? [YES] [NO]
2. yesterday? [YES] [NO]
3. last week? [YES] [NO]
4. last month? [YES] [NO]
5. last year? [YES] [NO]

Please just answer the question rather than derailing, avoiding the question or changing the subject.

The answer to each question is yes and no. No because I don't have the time, money, or materials to help out everyone that needs help on the earth. Yes because I am helping who I can including you because I am helping you and others to understand and live according to the Bible and the words of Jesus Christ. Therefore I am teaching people to what Jesus Christ taught them to do:

1. Love God with all your heart, soul, and mind by keeping His commandments.
2. Love your neighbor as yourself by keeping the commandments.
3. Be perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect by keeping the commandments.​

Those who are not striving to do these things are not doing what Jesus Christ has asked them to do. I suspect I could ask you if you personally do these three things, but I suspect I would not get an answer.

 

[drstevej]

1. No where does this say you help everyone on the earth.
2. Could you help or could you have helped even one more person in ANY way and did not? Not even A nickle? Or A kind word? Or A word of testimony?

If no to any of these over any span of time the honest answer is NO, I have not done all I can do.

Care to try to answer the OP questions again? After all, this is something you can do for me.

 

[He is the way]

1. No where does this say you help everyone on the earth.
2. Could you help or could you have helped even one more person in ANY way and did not? Not even A nickle? Or A kind word? Or A word of testimony?

If no to any of these over any span of time the honest answer is NO, I have not done all I can do.

Care to try to answer the OP questions again? After all, this is something you can do for me.

There is only so much a person can do and everyone makes mistakes. So no I can not honestly say that I have always done all that I can do. I don't know of anyone that learned to play the piano without making a mistake. That being said I don't know anyone who wouldn't want to play the piano perfectly. God has set the standard and that is to do all that we can do so we can become perfect like our Father in heaven. It is much the same for automobile fatalities. The standard is zero fatalities. Some people may say that is an impossible goal. Does that mean we should stop trying to reach that goal? Of course not. Jesus has stated that our goal is perfection. He lived that life as an example for us to follow:

(New Testament | Matthew 16:24)

24 ¶ Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

(New Testament | Matthew 19:21)

21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

 

[drstevej]

There is only so much a person can do and everyone makes mistakes. So no I can not honestly say that I have always done all that I can do. I don't know of anyone that learned to play the piano without making a mistake. That being said I don't know anyone who wouldn't want to play the piano perfectly. God has set the standard and that is to do all that we can do so we can become perfect like our Father in heaven. It is much the same for automobile fatalities. The standard is zero fatalities. Some people may say that is an impossible goal. Does that mean we should stop trying to reach that goal? Of course not. Jesus has stated that our goal is perfection. He lived that life as an example for us to follow:

So you do not have to do all you can no for salvation; or are you saying you'll never make it because you haven't done all you can do.