After 26 Years -- No Longer a Christian

[perfection]

The spiritual law of God is that in order to return to God, you have to have make up everything you have ever done wrong upon another person , It's part that is necessary in order for your spiritual progress to continue.

You have to break off the hell that you have build for others and yourself first, you can't build a house in heaven until you have got rid of your spiritual debt.

You CANT kill a person and aquire yourself a heaven with that, don't you understand that? You say oh atonement is silly because you would believe that if you have regretted your sin , the sin is indeed forgiven,and yes this is true but the spiritual debt resides. It's like robbing a bank from your brother, your brother will forgive you for your evil act, but he still wants his money back.

 

[AimlessEMF]

Maybe I shouldn't be posting here because I'm not sure what the heck my beliefs are, but I think something about the various beliefs within Christianity needs to be said here.

I think it's more accurate to say that you don't believe in the sacrificial substition model of atonement, rather than you don't believe in atonement at all. There are different models or theories of atonement. I think you might be more in line with Peter Abelard, although I'm sure you won't agree with that 100% either. Regardless, its important to keep in mind there are other thoughts out there. Although there are some people in these forums that would like you to think they have a monopoly on the christian faith, they don't. In fact, ever since the beginning there have been different views in christianity. I think that's the nature of humanity and you can't get away from that.

The bible itself is not a choir singing the same song. It's a choir singing different songs that are in harmony and generally follow the same theme.

Real point is : You aren't outside of the christian faith.

 

[CaDan]

Soft Rains--

You need to get out more! There is more to Christianity than Reformed Protestantism.

The Nicene Creed is, I think, an acceptable statement of the basics we all can agree upon:

We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one Being with the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit
he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary,
and was made man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered death and was buried.
On the third day he rose again
in accordance with the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.​

I don't see anything about substituion or propitiation. Just "For us and our salvation he came down from Heaven" and "For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate." The Creed does not recite how it works. It just works.

As I hope has been made clear in the discussion over in GT, there is a HUGE body of Orthodox Christianity that does not subscribe to Anselm's theory of substitutionary atonement.

And I DOUBLE DOG DARE anybody posting in this thread to post over in The Ancient Way that a belief in substitutionary atonement is necessary for salvation.


DOUBLE DOG DARE!

 

[seebs]

I feel like I'm talking to someone who says "I've been Christian for 26 years, but I finally realized that I simply couldn't believe that drinking alcohol was a sin".

Friend, you are discussing doctrine within the faith, on a position outside the scope of the Nicene Creed. The question of how Jesus saves us is a difficult one, and your answer is no less Christian now than it was ten years ago. You are exploring the faith, and this is good. Don't worry about it.

 

[aeroz19]

I agree with seebs.

 

[Scholar in training]

.

 

[ragdolly]

True "Christianity" is not a religion. It is a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. When a person truly gives their life to Him they begin a completely new journey...they are changed in a way that is so hard to explain until you allow it to happen to you by accepting the gift He offers. You don't need a religious background to find Jesus- Just the WORD to point the way. Through His word, God will draw you to Him and you can accept or reject. I grew up much the same way you did, but I met Jesus in a true and dramatic way several years ago and my life was changed in a instant. "For I am the way, the Truth and the Life and no man cometh unto the Father but by Me." Jesus teaches us so much about love when we allow Him to work through us. Our lives, no matter the human obstacles we face can be full of Joy and Peace. God Bless You. I think your journey is about to begin.