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Affirming grace, but missing the message

Interplanner

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All my D'ist friends get one thing 90% correct: salvation is not by observing the law. What they don't get is that all Paul's passages say that that "salvation" is also the fulfillment of promises to Israel (Acts 13's sermon, Eph 2-3, Gal 3) and both "salvation" and the fulfilled promises end up isolated, colorless (for us), futurist, etc. BW even said: Israel gets earthly things; Christians get heavenly things. No mixing he thought.

Matching this is the D'ist belief that in the NT, the Gentiles find out they can be saved without "going through" the channel of Israel. But it is better than that! Israel finds out it can be saved without going through that channel! It is only in Christ! One Lord, one faith, one body, one Gospel, for all and all time.
 

Interplanner

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You've just arrived after a long debate, and yes, he did say that Gentiles came in through the channel of Israel (and that they found this out in the NT). In general, he believes 2P2P, which is a pillar of D'ism, says Dr. Ryrie. Two peoples and two programs are running skew all through the Bible and never meet in human history. I find this quite mistaken.

I sent a nice note to BW's announcement here at P&E. I don't go to the other forum because there so few users.
 
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Interplanner

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As one ex. of 2P2P running amok, the member Dougg just posted that Jesus was in fact hailed at the OT king that was supposed to come during the triumphal entry event. If he had really done so, there would have been mass detainment by the Romans. He actually rejected being that kind of king back in Jn 6, but this is what happens when you try to see 2P2P going on in the Bible.

the truth is he was a king but not that kind. It was not this world's kind of kingdom, which Pilate would have loved to have sorted out clearly.
 
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Danoh

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You've just arrived after a long debate, and yes, he did say that Gentiles came in through the channel of Israel (and that they found this out in the NT). In general, he believes 2P2P, which is a pillar of D'ism, says Dr. Ryrie. Two peoples and two programs are running skew all through the Bible and never meet in human history. I find this quite mistaken.

I sent a nice note to BW's announcement here at P&E. I don't go to the other forum because there so few users.

I'd have to agree with you about what BW said then; because he is Acts Two Dispensational, whereas I am Acts Nine.

Acts Two Dispensationalism arose out of Reformed, or Replacement Theology, never fully broke away, in fact, came to hold to certain understandings to be all there was, which then continued to be the lens through they see things through, like the issue you address here.

What I see, is that, never having solved for such problems, they reason them through what is now their perspective. Its why they will go to the Greek, over the context, at times, as your theology also does - the Greek allows much more than the actual context will.

This happened within Mid-Acts as well. As a result, there are now two main Mid-Acts schools of thought.

The earlier one, which begins the Body with Paul in Acts 9, but which continually failed to allow that its conclusion. Instead, it has mostly remained at "we're not Israel."

While the later Mid-Acts camp, asking from there, "well, if we're not Israel" - and we're not - "what is our instruction in righteousness UNDER GRACE?"

Unfortunately, that resulted in a split on the part of the earlier camp, being that, having been so overfocused on "we're not Israel," they'd failed to move on to those doctrines of Grace that would have enabled them to welcome these later developments, at least WITH Grace.

Anyway, only Mid-Acts - either camp - can answer those discrepencies you assert detecting.

For example, Acts 2 Dispensationalism continues to see the "many mansions" "in my Father's house" as a reference to a Pre-Trib Rapture. Mid-Acts does not. It sees it for what it is - a reference to agencies of authority within the Temple this "little flock" of Israelites, or "nation" within their disbelieving nation at large, was comprised of. We see it as simply one more assertion of what He told them as to their one day sitting on Twelve thrones, judging the Twelve Tribes of Israel.

I realize that may not fly with you, I'm just attempting to clear the air.

You should post your opening thread over on the Dispensational forum also, because there are Mid-Acts Dispensationalists over there who apparantly do not visit over here. In fact, I can't think of any who do, as there are few who visit over there as well, lol
 
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