Affirmative Action - Colin Powell and Condoleeza Rice

[praying]

Someone asked this question:

Explain to me how denying a person a job or an education despite superior credentials?

My answer specifically in the case of education, the education recieved prior to college is not equal. The playing field is stacked against the poor. They have inherently inferior schools and consistently recieve inherently inferior education.


Condoleeza Rice on Affirmative Action:

http://talkleft.com/new_archives/001475.html
Condoleeza Rice on Affirmative Action
Condoleeza Rice's welcome statement on affirmative action and the President's Amicus Brief:

"When the President decided to submit an amicus brief, he asked for my view on how diversity can be best achieved on university campuses. I offered my view, drawing on my experience in academia and as provost of a major university. I agree with the President's position, which emphasizes the need for diversity and recognizes the continued legacy of racial prejudice, and the need to fight it. The President challenged universities to develop ways to diversify their populations fully. I believe that while race neutral means are preferable, it is appropriate to use race as one factor among others in achieving a diverse student body." (Emphasis supplied by us)

The complete text of Ms. Rice's statement is available here

In response to Rice's comments, People For the American Way Foundation President Ralph G. Neas released the following statement:

"It is very good news that Condoleezza Rice agrees with Colin Powell's longstanding belief that it is appropriate to use race as one factor among others in achieving a diverse student body. It also reflects precisely both what the law of the land has been for a quarter of a century and what a bipartisan majority of the American support."

"I wish it was possible for everything to be race-neutral in this country, but I'm afraid we're not yet at that point where things are race-neutral," Powell said on CNN's "Late Edition."

"I believe race should be a factor among many other factors in determining the makeup of a student body of a university."

http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/01/19/powell.race/

 

[oldrooster]

There should be no special rights - only equal rights.

 

[praying]

There should be no special rights - only equal rights.

Well there should be no unequal education then either, when that happens then talk to me.

 

[ZaraDurden]

There should be no special rights - only equal rights.

Then I'm sure you've never let a friend or relative put in a good word for you when you were applying for a job--or give you a job for that matter. That would be an unfair advantage over all those other applicants, wouldn't it?

 

[Rocinante]

Oh come on......don't try to paint Rice or Powell as supporters of Affirmative Action.

They support the fake Affirmative Action substitute of the BUSH administration......using race as one of MANY criteria and forbidding setting quotas.

And that's just in education as far as I know.......real Affirmative Action programs in hiring are history thanks to the Republican Party.

As I said before on the thread that was trashed by the right-wingers here........if you align yourself with the right-wing, you are turning AGAINST people of color and ALL the poor.

And Powell and Rice have aligned themselves with the right-wing......Rice far more than Powell.

Powell still shows some occasional signs of thought processes that include compassion for marginalized people.......he has good instincts, but fails to act.

If he resigns soon, I'll believe there's hope for him.

As far as WHY Affirmative Action programs are needed or HOW they are justified.......I'd have to have somebody tell me why they are NOT justified. If you have any sense of justice whatever it should be resoundingly obvious that Affirmative Action programs are needed to help level the playing field for minorities that are routinely discriminated against in hiring.

 

[Echoes Peak]

Then I'm sure you've never let a friend or relative put in a good word for you when you were applying for a job--or give you a job for that matter. That would be an unfair advantage over all those other applicants, wouldn't it?

 

[CyNix]

I believe in affermative action as long as race is taken out of the equation. Blacks and Hispanics are no less inteligent than whites.

I am white and from a lower income family. I have every advantage and disadvantage that many blacks have. It is unfair to discriminate against me because of my skin color.

 

[Rocinante]

I believe in affermative action as long as race is taken out of the equation. Blacks and Hispanics are no less inteligent than whites.

I am white and from a lower income family. I have every advantage and disadvantage that many blacks have. It is unfair to discriminate against me because of my skin color.

Roz sez:

That's a popular misconception........mostly popular among white people, which is hardly surprising.

If you are white in America you have a great and unfair advantage in getting jobs. Affirmative Action programs would remove some of that advantage and make things more fair for people of color.

But the right-wingers have destroyed Affirmative Action.

 

[Echoes Peak]

As long as we're talking about affirmative action, let's remember that it is white women that have benefitted the most from it.

Often, the debate turns into a Black/White debate, when actually may be it should be a gender one.

 

[CyNix]

If you are white in America you have a great and unfair advantage in getting jobs. Affirmative Action programs would remove some of that advantage and make things more fair for people of color.

What advantage do I have as I white? Are you saying that people are less likely to hire someone because they are black, or hispanic? As long as a person posseses the required qualifications for the job; like good english and math skills, and the required education, I do not see this happening. There is no great advantages or disadvanteges based on skin color.

It was MLKs intent to end racial discrimination. It has not ended.

 

[praying]

What advantage do I have as I white? Are you saying that people are less likely to hire someone because they are black, or hispanic? As long as a person posseses the required qualifications for the job; like good english and math skills, and the required education, I do not see this happening. There is no great advantages or disadvanteges based on skin color.

It was MLKs intent to end racial discrimination. It has not ended.

33

In the ideal world skin color shouldn't matter but we don't live in an ideal world. I think it should be eliminated at the job level, but higher education, it still needs to be there.

 

[CyNix]

33

In the ideal world skin color shouldn't matter but we don't live in an ideal world. I think it should be eliminated at the job level, but higher education, it still needs to be there.

For what purpose? Do you think that blacks are less likely to be accepted into a university because of race? No. So they have a disadvantage because of the inner city schools which they often attend? What about the poor white kids who live in those same school districts?

Why not homeschool like my parents did. Anyone who is willing can do it. Neither my mom or dad did have degrees. Nor did they spend more that $100 a year in materials, yet I was accepted at a local community college at 13.

 

[Blessed75]

Oh for petes sake - it is 2004 and this shouldn't even BE an issue - I know, I know mom - it is -

I say EQUAL RIGHTS FOR ALL. But what do I know? (um, NOT ONE WORD from the peanut gallery)

 

[Rocinante]

Mhatten,

You think WHAT should be eliminated at the job level? Discrimination?

Affirmative Action has already been eliminated by your right-wing "friends."

Affirmative Action is absolutely necessary in all areas of life.......as Cy's post so graphically illustrates.

 

[PresidentsAnalyst]

What exactly is a 'hispanic'? Iraqi's look Hispanic to me. People from Venezuala look hispanic to me. People from every country south of Texas look hispanic to me. People from the middle east look Hispanic to me. Who are the fools is decided there is this race of people called 'Hispanics'? And who are the fools who decided there is a negro race?
Oh, yeah, the Supreme Court.

 

[Borealis]

Someone asked this question:

That would be me.

My answer specifically in the case of education, the education recieved prior to college is not equal. The playing field is stacked against the poor. They have inherently inferior schools and consistently recieve inherently inferior education.

So who's fault is that? Shouldn't the blame be placed on the people responsible for providing that education? My views on public education are fairly well known on this board; for those of you who don't know me well, I have no use for public schooling.

Now, you're citing education as a factor in the question of Affirmative Action. Therefore, I believe I can safely assume that you're referring to the education received by poor blacks in the inner cities of America. Am I correct?

If so, let's take a look at who's running the education system in those inner cities. The education bureaucracy is SOLIDLY in the Democrat camp. They've been complaining about Bush's No Child Left Behind Act (which, I'll mention, I am opposed to), and they've been complaining that they need more and more and more and more and more money.

If you want to improve the education of poor black children in the inner cities, start paying attention to how much money is being spent on education, and how much is actually getting to the classrooms. In 1991, there were more education administration personnel (principals, superintendents, assistant superintendents, school board trustees, etc.) in New York City (not State, but City) than there were in all of Europe. http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/chapters/18t.htm

Until the education system is changed to ensure that money is allocated to the classroom instead of to the school board's swank new offices, inner city children will never get the education they deserve and need to function in society.

What good does it do to put a black student, or any student, into college if he was never taught to read in public school?

 

[jameseb]

I totally agree that all are entitled to equal rights too However..... *gets ready to be pelted with raw onions and bowls of Corn Flakes* I question the wisdom of Affirmative Action. I've seen it breed exactly what it is supposed to protect against. I've personally never been witness to someone not being hired because of the color of their skin.... or for their politics, their favorite football team, their religion, etc. As these boards can attest to, there are other factors that divide us. Obviously the color of your skin is impossible to hide, but I don't feel it is the problem that some would make it out to be. I mean, at what point do we say there is total equality and there is no longer a need for it? What exactly will be the definitive end of what we might perceive as racial bias in the workplace?

 

[Rocinante]

Racial discrimination in hiring, housing, credit and a host of other areas is a proven fact of our society. In most cities a black man has a hell of a time just getting a taxi.

That such discrimination exists is not the question.

Affirmative Action is the ONLY way to deal with that problem.

The fact that Affirmative Action has been trashed is simply another instance and proof of discrimination.

That's not hard to see.

 

[Doctrine1st]

What advantage do I have as I white? Are you saying that people are less likely to hire someone because they are black, or hispanic? As long as a person posseses the required qualifications for the job; like good english and math skills, and the required education, I do not see this happening. There is no great advantages or disadvanteges based on skin color.

It was MLKs intent to end racial discrimination. It has not ended.

Because people are comfortable with what they see everyday. People tend move to neighgorhoods that look like them, because this where they are comfortable with. They tend to date people who look like them, because this is who they are comfortable with. In the same regard people tend to hire those who look like them, because this is who they are comfortable with. It's kind of a subconcious thing, but as from a line in the "Silence of the Lambs" people covet what they see everyday.

 

[jameseb]

That such discrimination exists is not the question.

Well, mate, I did question it, like it or not.

The fact that Affirmative Action has been trashed is simply another instance and proof of discrimination.

That's not hard to see.

Uh huh...