affairs

[blackribbon]

Okay...please translate for the old lady...what is NWAB? couldn't google anything that sounded remotely like a correct translation...

 

[blackribbon]

Oh, I get it. PrincePurpleRose was a sock identity.

 

[pittsflyer]

So you admit that there is extremely weak scientific data to back up alot of these mental illness claims. I would say the evidence these "doctors" have is equivalent to the "proof" that is used to prove UFO's exist.

People dont want formal diagnosis they want to be let off the hook for their behavior because they are "sick". But if it came down to being confined to a mental hospital I bet they would stop throwing crap at their boyfriends or flipping out and screaming and yelling.

They have proved hypoglycemia through the scientific method and have valid treatments. They theorize that there are all these mental illnesses but most cant be concretely proven yet. So im not going to let a female dog off the hook because she wants an excuse to throw a fit and nor should the rest of society.

Also you lived that way as a child, I am talking about as an adult with an adult career but having to live like a college student indefinitly. Not having enough money has very real very tangible consequences that are sometimes fatal. Where I live it does not take long to die of exposure certian times of the year. There is a certian expectation of a certian standard of living once you have "made it" and if the courts can take it away with one swing of a gavel you are on your way to socialism where people are motivated just enough to live. I dont care if people want to use kids as pawns or what ever sob story they come up with, I dont want my money stolen from me.

Its not a matter of loving the money itself, its about having respect for myself and my time that money represents my time and energy. I respect myself, my time and my energy, I dont work for free and having a court siphon off money is equivalent to workign for reduced pay above and beyond the taxes every one else pays as a society.

Pittsflyer...yes, I have lived the way you describe for a lot of years....because my dad walked out on us and all his money went to his new girlfriend and her family.

Also say what you want about psychiatric medical disorders and continue the stigma so people don't get help. Most psychiatric patients DON'T "claim" their diagnoses...they deny them with heart and soul because they know they will never be treated the same again in their lives. Nobody wants a psychiatric diagnosis....it isn't the "easy" way to anything.

And unfortunately, no, we aren't able to always get a scan of mental illness...but there are plenty other diseases that we can't "see" in a picture. I personally think it is because we haven't found the right imagining mechanism or blood test. Mental illness in only in the infancy of its medical research right now. I have worked shoulder to shoulder with those who do have psychiatric diagnoses and I have seen medication work. There is no medication that "fixes" bad behavior so maybe the behavior really has an organic cause. Have you ever seen a diabetic who is extremely hyperglycemic? They appear drunk...telling them to "shape up" and "get their head on straight" won't help them...insulin will help them. Same goes for a bipolar deep in either their depressive or manic cycle. The problem is (not unlike the diabetic) that their body chemistry is out of balance and can be regulated with medical help.

 

[Messy]

nm

 

[blackribbon]

So you admit that there is extremely weak scientific data to back up alot of these mental illness claims. I would say the evidence these "doctors" have is equivalent to the "proof" that is used to prove UFO's exist.

People dont want formal diagnosis they want to be let off the hook for their behavior because they are "sick". But if it came down to being confined to a mental hospital I bet they would stop throwing crap at their boyfriends or flipping out and screaming and yelling.

They have proved hypoglycemia through the scientific method and have valid treatments. They theorize that there are all these mental illnesses but most cant be concretely proven yet. So im not going to let a female dog off the hook because she wants an excuse to throw a fit and nor should the rest of society.


Also you lived that way as a child, I am talking about as an adult with an adult career but having to live like a college student indefinitly. Not having enough money has very real very tangible consequences that are sometimes fatal. Where I live it does not take long to die of exposure certian times of the year. There is a certian expectation of a certian standard of living once you have "made it" and if the courts can take it away with one swing of a gavel you are on your way to socialism where people are motivated just enough to live. I dont care if people want to use kids as pawns or what ever sob story they come up with, I dont want my money stolen from me.

Its not a matter of loving the money itself, its about having respect for myself and my time that money represents my time and energy. I respect myself, my time and my energy, I dont work for free and having a court siphon off money is equivalent to workign for reduced pay above and beyond the taxes every one else pays as a society.

I said no such thing about "weak scientific evidence". It is relatively new area of study and as it finally gets researched now it is actually very strong evidence that it is physiological condition and not a "mortality" issue. Even in substance abuse issues which I am sure will be the hardest part to get society to accept. Strong genetic links and strong evidence. I don't know where you are getting your information but I am getting mine from both university level classes and professional journals....along with very strong empirical evidence of actually seeing the treatments work and sitting down with patients in a professional setting.

As for the behavior on a mental health unit, you have zero idea of what it is like to be there obviously. I do because along with being a medical surgical nurse, I am also a psychiatric nurse on a locked down unit for primarily involuntary admissions.

And I wasn't a "child" living in poverty, in fact my childhood was pretty decent. It was my later teen years ... into college ... and a lot of my marriage that I lived that way. At a point, it came out of choice because we decided to forgo the luxuries of life and live pretty barebones so that I could not work and homeschool my kids. We were starting to come out of the "dead broke" ages when my husband was diagnosed with cancer (age 36) and couldn't work for over six months with 3 days notice. A family of 4 lived on $300 a week short term disablity during that time frame because he needed me to stay home with him and not get a job. He did get healthy again after year and we lived very tight to get out of debt (minus the morgage which I still had at his death). The second time he had no notice about not working and died 11 weeks later. We lived off the small savings we had started for our first ever family vacation planned that next summer. Yes, I know exactly how it is to live like you are describing ... only I did it out of love for my husband ... and we made it work ... and I'd go back to those days in a heartbeat if it would bring my husband back. Money doesn't buy happiness. The biggest irony was that a lot of the richer kids envied my kids' lives....we didn't have money but we had/have a really solid family and we knew how to have fun on next to nothing.

Funny, my kids don't feel deprived that we never took them to Disneyworld and our family vacations tended to be trips to nearby state parks in a tent. My kids have probably visited more national parks than most people will have seen in their life times and they know how to live on next to nothing. I bet if you asked them, neither would realize that we were "poor" most of their childhood.

I could have married Mr Good Enough and had the wealthy life. He pursued me for over 10 years and didn't really give up until I got married. He was good looking and a great person..I just didn't love him the same way he loved me and he deserved to find real love. I picked my husband knowing that he would never be wealthy ...and ironically, just before he died he had gotten a promotion that would have made us pretty comfortable for the first time in our lives. Instead, what we had carried us through two months of very aggressive cancer treatments....and a funeral (did you know that it costs over $10,000 to have a basic funeral and that doesn't include the cemetery plot?).

You go on and value the things money can buy you and I will continue to value real love. But don't tell me I don't know what I am talking about. I wouldn't trade my days with money as a child for my days of struggling as an adult ... no, not ever. Maybe that is why I was so determined to find "love" instead of good enough...because I didn't want to live my mother's life of never really being valued the way she deserved. She was Mrs Good Enough though he didn't tell her that until he started dating Miss Wowwy, the sexy secretary and mom was no longer good enough. Funny, Miss Wowwy didn't ever consider him good enough to marry...she just lived off his money and kept her freedom. She left him when it ran out because it was my mom's magic ability to manage finances that had gotten him financially comfortable in the first place. Sometimes life is funny that way. (PS Mom is now more than comfortable because she knew how to manage money and lived barebones to get that way. She might actually be wealthy...I know her financial planner has started to encourage her to spend money and go on trips and such. My dad barely has two nickels to rub together and no relationship with either of his kids)

 

[redblue22]

So you admit that there is extremely weak scientific data to back up alot of these mental illness claims. I would say the evidence these "doctors" have is equivalent to the "proof" that is used to prove UFO's exist.
People dont want formal diagnosis they want to be let off the hook for their behavior because they are "sick". But if it came down to being confined to a mental hospital I bet they would stop throwing crap at their boyfriends or flipping out and screaming and yelling.

They have proved hypoglycemia through the scientific method and have valid treatments. They theorize that there are all these mental illnesses but most cant be concretely proven yet. So im not going to let a female dog off the hook because she wants an excuse to throw a fit and nor should the rest of society.

Also you lived that way as a child, I am talking about as an adult with an adult career but having to live like a college student indefinitly. Not having enough money has very real very tangible consequences that are sometimes fatal. Where I live it does not take long to die of exposure certian times of the year. There is a certian expectation of a certian standard of living once you have "made it" and if the courts can take it away with one swing of a gavel you are on your way to socialism where people are motivated just enough to live. I dont care if people want to use kids as pawns or what ever sob story they come up with, I dont want my money stolen from me.

Its not a matter of loving the money itself, its about having respect for myself and my time that money represents my time and energy. I respect myself, my time and my energy, I dont work for free and having a court siphon off money is equivalent to workign for reduced pay above and beyond the taxes every one else pays as a society.

So, mental illness is not real. They are just faking, lazy, stupid. Right?

And one should not be forced to help with the bills of one's own child. If you decide not to help your kids, you should be able to go on your merry way. It doesn't matter if your kids do not have enough money. It doesn't matter if your kids have tangible consequences. Also right?

 

[Messy]

When I came into the mental hospital the patients said: Don't you find it weird to be here with us?
I said: No, finally some normal people.

 

[Messy]

-

 

[Messy]

So, mental illness is not real. They are just faking, lazy, stupid. Right?

Yup just like blind people. They're just too lazy to use their eyes. Seen those kids with the lazy eye wearing an eyepatch? That's with all of them.

 

[redblue22]

I wonder how people with mental illness feel when they find out friends or family members look down on the mentally ill. What is it like to hear that people close to you think mental illness is just a scam, laziness, godlessness, stupidity?

It makes me think of one couple who visited a relative in the hospital. On their way out, the husband says that if she ever gets cancer he won't be there for her because it is too much to handle. A year later, she was diagnosed with cancer and left him.

I think it must be hard to be sick and be accused. Do you keep it secret and hide? Or do you tell everyone and let them reject you? Or reject them because they aren't going to be there for you even as a friend.

 

[dayhiker]

Its clear to me that we have physical deceases. Most of these deceases were not understood for centuries and even cancer which has now been studied intensely for 30 years still isn't completely understood. Even the newest treatments only work on some patients, do little for others. Why is that? So that mean there isn't cancer?

Mental deceases are even harder to figure out. But progress has been made and I think its not wise to put our head in the sand and say just aren't real. For me to ignore the pain they are in is to show them no compassion and that is not what Jesus would do.

So I don't see any purpose in denying what we don't fully understand yet.

 

[blackribbon]

I wonder how people with mental illness feel when they find out friends or family members look down on the mentally ill. What is it like to hear that people close to you think mental illness is just a scam, laziness, godlessness, stupidity?

It makes me think of one couple who visited a relative in the hospital. On their way out, the husband says that if she ever gets cancer he won't be there for her because it is too much to handle. A year later, she was diagnosed with cancer and left him.

I think it must be hard to be sick and be accused. Do you keep it secret and hide? Or do you tell everyone and let them reject you? Or reject them because they aren't going to be there for you even as a friend.

This is why it so hard to treat mental illness even when we find a treatment that is successful. When people are healthy, they stop taking their medications which allow them to be that way in hopes to prove that they really don't need them and they are "normal".

This is the same as someone with high blood pressure that finally gets it down to a healthy level...and then stops taking their medications. Ummm, why do you think it is now normal?...could it be that the medication actually was working?

Not all mental illnesses are hard to live with when they are being managed properly. The one of the saddest thing to see if how many people don't get a single visitor when they are admitted for mental health issues. Another is to watch the families fighting so hard to prove that their loved one doesn't have a mental illness instead of actually trying to understand it and help them get better. The patients that are most likely to be successful and not readmitted are those that have strong support systems.

 

[blackribbon]

Epilepsy...is it a devil possession or a neurological disorder? I guess the truth depends on what century you live in. Or could it be that maybe it just wasn't understood for a long time and the truth is that it has always been a neurological disorder? You can't see seizure disorders on a brain scan either most of the time unless you are seeing an actual seizure or looking at the post-seizure damage. Does that mean they the person is just faking?

 

[dayhiker]

Some years ago I was thinking about what modern medicine and research is finding out about how we function and demons.

I think there is a way for them to be consistent. If we believe that the only way our healthy physical bodies function is because is a parallel spiritual part. Then it can also be thought that all physical sicknesses also have a spiritual part.
We don't have to think of all demons has being at least as evil as Hitler. Demons mainly want a body to express them selves thru. But they need a way into the body. Sin can be one way. But I also think a physical weakness can be another way. So a cancer can start as a physical weakness, a genetic mutation in a cell, then a demon can come in thru that weakness and be the spirit part of that cancer. In the case of epilepsy something could go wrong in the brain and then a demon could get in and be the spirit part.

A drug could mess with the weakness, heal it or interupt the function of the weakness, so that a demon might loose its ability to stay and so leave that person.

Thus when Jesus cast out a demon there was also a healing that removed the weakness so the demon couldn't come back. When Jesus healed a person the demon also last its hold on that person.

As with all spiritual things they can't be proven with scientific means nor can these thoughts that I've had, but they feel consistent to me so I go with them.

 

[blackribbon]

I think that is a dangerous way to think because how do you explain epilepsy or other physical illnesses in good solid Christian believers. Or are some people more genetic inclined to be demon possessed regardless of their faith?

And how to do we heal non-Christians with the same treatments?

My soul and my brain are two different entities. The brain is nothing but a physical organ that can malfunction and if it does, it behaves with expected patterns....same as the heart or the liver.

 

[Messy]

I wonder how people with mental illness feel when they find out friends or family members look down on the mentally ill. What is it like to hear that people close to you think mental illness is just a scam, laziness, godlessness, stupidity?

It makes me think of one couple who visited a relative in the hospital. On their way out, the husband says that if she ever gets cancer he won't be there for her because it is too much to handle. A year later, she was diagnosed with cancer and left him.

I think it must be hard to be sick and be accused. Do you keep it secret and hide? Or do you tell everyone and let them reject you? Or reject them because they aren't going to be there for you even as a friend.

Don't reject them, think about them the same as they do about you: he just doesn't have the capacity to understand. Doesn't matter.

 

[dayhiker]

The physical body would respond the same whether one was a believer or not.

Yes, I've never thought ones soul was ones brain.

I think that is a dangerous way to think because how do you explain epilepsy or other physical illnesses in good solid Christian believers. Or are some people more genetic inclined to be demon possessed regardless of their faith?

And how to do we heal non-Christians with the same treatments?

My soul and my brain are two different entities. The brain is nothing but a physical organ that can malfunction and if it does, it behaves with expected patterns....same as the heart or the liver.

 

[blackribbon]

The physical body would respond the same whether one was a believer or not.

Yes, I've never thought ones soul was ones brain.

So you believe a believer can become possessed?

 

[blackribbon]

The physical body would respond the same whether one was a believer or not.

Yes, I've never thought ones soul was ones brain.

So you believe a believer can become possessed?

 

[Messy]

So you believe a believe can become possessed?

Not possessed, but a demon can interfere or a person can be bound by a demon.

Now He was teaching in one of the synagogues on the Sabbath. 11 And behold, there was a woman who had a spirit of infirmity eighteen years, and was bent over and could in no way raise herself up. 12 But when Jesus saw her, He called her to Him and said to her, “Woman, you are loosed from your infirmity.” 13 And He laid His hands on her, and immediately she was made straight, and glorified God.

14 But the ruler of the synagogue answered with indignation, because Jesus had healed on the Sabbath; and he said to the crowd, “There are six days on which men ought to work; therefore come and be healed on them, and not on the Sabbath day.”

15 The Lord then answered him and said, Hypocrite! Does not each one of you on the Sabbath loose his ox or donkey from the stall, and lead it away to water it? 16 So ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan has bound think of i for eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the Sabbath?”