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Adventists-Bible does not prohibit all alcohol.

Discussion in 'Denomination Specific Theology' started by tall73, Apr 22, 2021.

  1. tall73

    tall73 Sophia7's husband Supporter

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    Seventh-day Adventist Fundamental belief #22

    https://szu.adventist.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/28_Beliefs.pdf

    We are called to be a godly people who think, feel, and act in harmony with biblical principles in all aspects of personal and social life. For the Spirit to recreate in us the character of our Lord we involve ourselves only in those things that will produce Christlike purity, health, and joy in our lives. This means that our amusement and entertainment should meet the highest standards of Christian taste and beauty. While recognizing cultural differences, our dress is to be simple, modest, and neat, befitting those whose true beauty does not consist of outward adornment but in the imperishable ornament of a gentle and quiet spirit. It also means that because our bodies are the temples of the Holy Spirit, we are to care for them intelligently. Along with adequate exercise and rest, we are to adopt the most healthful diet possible and abstain from the unclean foods identified in the Scriptures. Since alcoholic beverages, tobacco, and the irresponsible use of drugs and narcotics are harmful to our bodies, we are to abstain from them as well. Instead, we are to engage in whatever brings our thoughts and bodies into the discipline of Christ, who desires our wholesomeness, joy, and goodness. (Gen. 7:2; Exod. 20:15; Lev. 11:1-47; Ps. 106:3; Rom. 12:1, 2; 1 Cor. 6:19, 20; 10:31; 2 Cor. 6:14-7:1; 10:5; Eph. 5:1-21; Phil. 2:4; 4:8; 1 Tim. 2:9, 10; Titus 2:11, 12; 1 Peter 3:1-4; 1 John 2:6; 3 John 2.)


    Historic Stand for Temperance Principles | Adventist.org

    The Seventh-day Adventist Church reaffirms its historic stand for the principles of temperance, upholds its policies and programs supporting Article 21 of the Fundamental Beliefs, and calls upon each member to affirm and reveal a life commitment to abstinence from any form of alcohol and tobacco and irresponsible use of drugs.


    ------------

    The Bible does not prohibit all alcohol. It does prohibit becoming drunk.

    The Bible warns against the deceptiveness of wine and strong drink because of the possibility of becoming drunk.

    The Bible in some situations forbids drinking alcohol (the priest while going into the sanctuary, someone taking a Nazirite vow, advises against kings drinking, etc.).

    However, some texts make plain alcohol was not always forbidden.


    Deu 14:22 “You shall tithe all the yield of your seed that comes from the field year by year.
    Deu 14:23 And before the LORD your God, in the place that he will choose, to make his name dwell there, you shall eat the tithe of your grain, of your wine, and of your oil, and the firstborn of your herd and flock, that you may learn to fear the LORD your God always.
    Deu 14:24 And if the way is too long for you, so that you are not able to carry the tithe, when the LORD your God blesses you, because the place is too far from you, which the LORD your God chooses, to set his name there,
    Deu 14:25 then you shall turn it into money and bind up the money in your hand and go to the place that the LORD your God chooses

    Deu 14:26 and spend the money for whatever you desire—oxen or sheep or wine or strong drink, whatever your appetite craves. And you shall eat there before the LORD your God and rejoice, you and your household.
    Deu 14:27 And you shall not neglect the Levite who is within your towns, for he has no portion or inheritance with you.
    Deu 14:28 “At the end of every three years you shall bring out all the tithe of your produce in the same year and lay it up within your towns.
    Deu 14:29 And the Levite, because he has no portion or inheritance with you, and the sojourner, the fatherless, and the widow, who are within your towns, shall come and eat and be filled, that the LORD your God may bless you in all the work of your hands that you do.


    Isa 25:6 On this mountain the LORD of hosts will make for all peoples a feast of rich food, a feast of well-aged wine, of rich food full of marrow, of aged wine well refined.
    Isa 25:7 And he will swallow up on this mountain the covering that is cast over all peoples, the veil that is spread over all nations.
    Isa 25:8 He will swallow up death forever; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from all faces, and the reproach of his people he will take away from all the earth, for the LORD has spoken.


    1Ti_5:23 (No longer drink only water, but use a little wine for the sake of your stomach and your frequent ailments.)

    Luk 7:33 For John the Baptist has come eating no bread and drinking no wine, and you say, ‘He has a demon.’
    Luk 7:34 The Son of Man has come eating and drinking, and you say, ‘Look at him! A glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!’
    Luk 7:35 Yet wisdom is justified by all her children.”



    The one taking a Nazirite vow would separate himself from wine and strong drink for a time. But then would got back to it afterwards. Wine is distinguished from juice of grapes in the text.


    Num 6:1 And the LORD spoke to Moses, saying,
    Num 6:2 “Speak to the people of Israel and say to them, When either a man or a woman makes a special vow, the vow of a Nazirite, to separate himself to the LORD,
    Num 6:3 he shall separate himself from wine and strong drink. He shall drink no vinegar made from wine or strong drink and shall not drink any juice of grapes or eat grapes, fresh or dried.
    Num 6:4 All the days of his separation he shall eat nothing that is produced by the grapevine, not even the seeds or the skins.
    Num 6:5 “All the days of his vow of separation, no razor shall touch his head. Until the time is completed for which he separates himself to the LORD, he shall be holy. He shall let the locks of hair of his head grow long.
    Num 6:6 “All the days that he separates himself to the LORD he shall not go near a dead body.
    Num 6:7 Not even for his father or for his mother, for brother or sister, if they die, shall he make himself unclean, because his separation to God is on his head.
    Num 6:8 All the days of his separation he is holy to the LORD.
    Num 6:9 “And if any man dies very suddenly beside him and he defiles his consecrated head, then he shall shave his head on the day of his cleansing; on the seventh day he shall shave it.
    Num 6:10 On the eighth day he shall bring two turtledoves or two pigeons to the priest to the entrance of the tent of meeting,
    Num 6:11 and the priest shall offer one for a sin offering and the other for a burnt offering, and make atonement for him, because he sinned by reason of the dead body. And he shall consecrate his head that same day
    Num 6:12 and separate himself to the LORD for the days of his separation and bring a male lamb a year old for a guilt offering. But the previous period shall be void, because his separation was defiled.
    Num 6:13 “And this is the law for the Nazirite, when the time of his separation has been completed: he shall be brought to the entrance of the tent of meeting,
    Num 6:14 and he shall bring his gift to the LORD, one male lamb a year old without blemish for a burnt offering, and one ewe lamb a year old without blemish as a sin offering, and one ram without blemish as a peace offering,
    Num 6:15 and a basket of unleavened bread, loaves of fine flour mixed with oil, and unleavened wafers smeared with oil, and their grain offering and their drink offerings.
    Num 6:16 And the priest shall bring them before the LORD and offer his sin offering and his burnt offering,
    Num 6:17 and he shall offer the ram as a sacrifice of peace offering to the LORD, with the basket of unleavened bread. The priest shall offer also its grain offering and its drink offering.
    Num 6:18 And the Nazirite shall shave his consecrated head at the entrance of the tent of meeting and shall take the hair from his consecrated head and put it on the fire that is under the sacrifice of the peace offering.
    Num 6:19 And the priest shall take the shoulder of the ram, when it is boiled, and one unleavened loaf out of the basket and one unleavened wafer, and shall put them on the hands of the Nazirite, after he has shaved the hair of his consecration,
    Num 6:20 and the priest shall wave them for a wave offering before the LORD. They are a holy portion for the priest, together with the breast that is waved and the thigh that is contributed. And after that the Nazirite may drink wine.
    Num 6:21 “This is the law of the Nazirite. But if he vows an offering to the LORD above his Nazirite vow, as he can afford, in exact accordance with the vow that he takes, then he shall do in addition to the law of the Nazirite.”

     
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  2. The Liturgist

    The Liturgist Traditional Liturgical Christian

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    The Methodists also fell into this trap and along with the Baptists who were the chief supporters of Prohibition, as well as some Presbyterians, so in all fairness to everyone, this criticism does not exclusively apply to the SDA by a long shot. I do feel compelled to defend the SDA in the interests of truth and fairness.
     
  3. Basil the Great

    Basil the Great Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I am not an Adventist, but I am firmly convinced that the consumption of alcohol is a social evil and should be avoided, if at all possible. Still, I would not tell someone that drinking in moderation is sinful.
     
  4. tall73

    tall73 Sophia7's husband Supporter

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    Sure it doesn't apply to just them. It still applies to them.
     
  5. tall73

    tall73 Sophia7's husband Supporter

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    That is where I am at. I don't drink alcohol. And I don't think anyone needs to in our modern age where drinking and driving causes many problems.

    But I too would not tell people that it is wrong to drink in moderation.
     
  6. imge

    imge Well-Known Member

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    How many Adventist threads do we need? Just my two cents I would never spend so much time on something I didn’t believe in. That’s why I think there are so many people who respond to the Sabbath threads, somewhere down deep is your conscience trying to tell you that God’s Ten Commandments are a unit and cannot be separated or be erased.

    On the topic:
    Proverbs 20:1 Wine is a mocker,
    Strong drink is a brawler,
    And whoever is led astray by it is not wise
     
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  7. tall73

    tall73 Sophia7's husband Supporter

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    There is a reason I spend time on this. While an Adventist pastor I had a member who drank alcohol. I don't know when he started. But he drank only occasionally, and in moderation.

    He lamented that the membership looked down on him. But he did not violate the Scripture.


    Agreed, and addressed in the OP.
     
  8. imge

    imge Well-Known Member

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    Just my opinion, it seems like you spend a lot of time on what you don’t believe in. Are we not supposed to spend time instead spreading the gospel and the good news about the return of our Savior? Which I think He is coming soon. God bless
     
  9. tall73

    tall73 Sophia7's husband Supporter

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    I have not discussed these things in some time. But of course I talked about them a great deal here for years. First to defend Adventist views, then later when I could no longer agree with Adventist views, to re-evaluate. And for those going through what I did I occasionally discuss again.

    I know a number of former Adventist pastors who now pastor in other denominations largely. And they run websites to help people work through such difficulties.

    And this issue came up when I was pastoring in the Adventist church, because the work of saving souls does not include discouraging people with unbiblical restrictions. Therefore I had to look at my view against alcohol in light of Scripture, and realize it did not forbid all alcohol.

    Also, I have Adventist relatives who consider me a heretic. But some of them still talk to me. And one of them upon encountering the text about buying strong drink said that she wished that was not in the Bible. Why should she wish that? The Bible says what it does.
     
  10. Jamdoc

    Jamdoc Well-Known Member

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    That is one area I disagree with my denomination on. A lot of baptists are very strict 0 alcohol types where I read the bible and see that.. on occasion, wine is a good thing. Just don't get drunk. Ephesians 5:18 the key words to me is "wherein is excess". Paul wrote to Timothy to have a little wine rather than straight water for his stomach ailments.
    So.. a little wine is biblical.
    Just have restraint.
    That's what the bible teaches.
    and that's something that affects a lot of denominations.. they teach abstaining from alcohol entirely rather than teaching what's biblical.
     
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  11. fatherforgivethem

    fatherforgivethem He will never leave you nor forsake you.

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    Just a quick off-topic question:

    Do SDA think that all Christians that don't follow the Sabbath/4th commandment are going to hell when Jesus returns?
     
  12. tall73

    tall73 Sophia7's husband Supporter

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    Usually just those who have heard of the issue. So you would now be included.

    Satan is the sharpest critic that the world has ever known, and he works to hinder and pervert truth. He has induced men to strive to change the Sabbath of the fourth commandment. Under his dictation the first day of the week has been adopted by the Christian world as the Sabbath. He has used his masterly mind to influence other men to adopt the same views that he himself entertains. But if we turn aside from the fourth commandment, so positively given by God, to adopt the inventions of Satan, voiced and acted by men under his control, we cannot be saved. We cannot with safety receive his traditions and subtleties as truth. {RH, July 6, 1897 par. 4}


    Also, some statements are taken to indicate that Sabbath was not a test until a certain point.


    I saw that the present test on the Sabbath could not come until the mediation of Jesus in the holy place was finished and He had passed within the second veil; therefore Christians who fell asleep before the door was opened into the most holy, when the midnight cry was finished, at the seventh month, 1844, and who had not kept the true Sabbath, now rest in hope; for they had not the light and the test on the Sabbath which we now have since that door was opened. I saw that Satan was tempting some of God's people on this point. Because so many good Christians have fallen asleep in the triumphs of faith and have not kept the true Sabbath, they were doubting about its being a test for us now. Early Writings Chapter 7.
     
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  13. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    From an Adventist point of view - No we do not believe that those who do not worship God on the Sabbath are going to hell. Although this is what you will hear from the many words of websites out there.

    According to the scriptures the Mark of the beast is over worship (Revelation 14:6-12). Gods' judgements have only ever been poured out on mankind because of sin which is defined in the scriptures as breaking anyone of God's 10 commandments *Romans 7:7; James 2:10-11 and not believing and following God's Word when God gives us a knowledge of the truth and we knowingly choose to reject if in order to continue in known unrepentant sin *Romans 14:23; Act of the Apostles 17:30-31; Hebrews 10:26-31.

    According to the scriptures we believe that God's people are in every Church living up to all the knowledge of the truth of God's Word that he has revealed to them *John 10:16. According to Jesus the hour is coming and now is that the true worshipers will worship God in Spirit and in truth as God is a Spirit and those who worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in truth *John 4:23-24. God is calling His people where ever they might be to come out from following the teachings and traditions of men back to the pure Word of God *Revelation 18:4.

    According to John the mark of the beast is over worship *Revelation 14:6-12. God is calling us back to "Remember the Sabbath day to keep it Holy" (Exodus 20:8-11) and to Fear God and give glory to him by believing and following His Word for the hour of His judgement has come and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters *Revelation 14:7.

    God is calling us back to what we have forgotten. Remember the Sabbath day to keep it Holy and worship Him that is the creator of all things in heaven and in earth *Exodus 20:8-11; from Genesis 2:1-3. God knows that the religions of the world have forgotten him 4th commandment seventh day Sabbath and His people where ever they may be have been taught to follow man-made teachings and traditions that have led His people away from His Word to break his commandments.

    Jesus says that those who follow the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God are not worshiping God in Matthew 15:3-9. God is calling his people out from these teachings back to the pure Word of God *Revelation 18:4; God is a Spirit and those who worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in truth (John 4:23-24). The question is who do we believe and follow; God or man. According to Revelation 13 no one receives the mark of the beast until they have been given a knowledge of the truth of God's Word and have chosen to reject it under penalty of civil punishment.

    God bless
     
  14. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    There is inconsistency with your OP here. How can you drink in moderation and not get drunk then claim the bible teaches drunkards will not enter into Gods' Kingdom? Are you claiming it is ok to get drunk sometimes; get moderately drunk of not drunk at all? I do not know anyone that drinks that does not do so to get inebriated or drunk or what is even the difference between a little drunk and a lot as drinking gets one drunk or a level of drunkenness. At what point do we define what drunk is? You seem to be going all out on your anti- SDA threads by the way. Did someone hit a nerve with you?
     
  15. fatherforgivethem

    fatherforgivethem He will never leave you nor forsake you.

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    Thanks for your response, but what is your final answer?
    You started the text saying SDA don't believe that Christians that don't follow the Sabbath are going to hell, but while I was reading your text and after I finished it, it looked like you said that who don't follow the Sabbath is going to hell.

    What is your conclusive answer?
     
  16. tall73

    tall73 Sophia7's husband Supporter

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    I am claiming you should not get drunk at all. And if someone is a drunkard they should repent.

    A lot of folks have just a drink on a special occasion with no desire to get drunk. And the Bible texts support that some festive occasions had alcohol.

    But as I said, I am quite happy for no one to drink. But if someone does drink and not get drunk, that is still biblical.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2021
  17. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    It was explained in the post your responding to but allow me to explain it a little further here. God does not hold us accountable for sin until we receive a knowledge of the truth of God's Word and choose to reject it (see Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31; James 4:17 and Hebrews 10:26-31). Many break Gods' commandments out of ignorance according to the scriptures and in times of ignorance God winks at. Our probation time is while we are alive and does not finish until either we die or Jesus returns *Hebrews 9:27; Revelation 22:12. In regards to the Mark of the beast no one receives it until they have been given a knowledge of the truth of God's Word and choose to reject it under penalty of civil law *Revelation 13:15-18. If we know something that God wants us not to do is sin and continue in sin when God gives us a knowledge of what sin is then we are held accountable for sin *James 4:17. According to the scriptures God's 10 commandments give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken according to Paul in Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; John in 1 John 3:4 and according to James if we break anyone of them according to James we stand guilty before God of sin in James 2:10-11. God's 4th commandment Sabbath is one of Gods 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken. So your question's answer is "it depends" if someone has a knowledge of the truth of Gods' Word and reject it in order to continue in known unrepentant sin. According to Paul unless we return to God in repentance seeking God's forgiveness then we are in danger of the judgement in Hebrews 10:26-31. While according to the scriptures if someone does not know any better the scriptures teach in times of ignorance God does not hold us accountable for sin until he gives us a knowledge of the truth of His Word (Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31 and James 4:17)

    Hope this was helpful.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2021
  18. Taodeching

    Taodeching Well-Known Member

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    I do every Sunday when I partake of the Body and Blood of the Lord per Biblical instruction and we sure don't do it to get drunk. I know those who have an occasional beer that don't do it to get drunk. You should not be so fast to judge
     
  19. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    How does one drink not to get drunk when drinking gets us drunk and how do we define drunk?
     
  20. Taodeching

    Taodeching Well-Known Member

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    How does one not get fat when eating gets us fat?
     
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