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Adventist: pre-Advent Judgment out of "books" - Dan 7 and Dan 8

Major1

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That "Judgment" as in the action of "condemnation" or the conclusion of condemnation

This is judgment - as in reviewing evidence and reaching a conclusion

2 Cor 5:10
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive compensation for his deeds done through the body, in accordance with what he has done, whether good or bad.

Rom 2:13-16
13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the Law who will be justified. 14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law instinctively perform the requirements of the Law, these, though not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience testifying and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of mankind through Christ Jesus.

Dan 7:21 I kept looking, and that horn was waging war with the saints and prevailing against them, 22 until the Ancient of Days came and judgment was passed in favor of the saints of the Highest One, and the time arrived when the saints took possession of the kingdom.

Rom 2:
5 But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who will repay each person according to his deeds: 7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek glory, honor, and immortality, He will give eternal life; 8 but to those who are self-serving and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, He will give wrath and indignation. 9 There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of mankind who does evil, for the Jew first and also for the Greek, 10 but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who does what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God.


The judgment seat of Christ has nothing to do with JUDGMENT at all.

It is ONLY for born again believers! It is also called the "Bema Seat"!

You correctly posted Romans 14:10–12 which says, ...
“For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat. . . . So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God”.

Also Second Corinthians 5:10 tells us as you posted .....
, “We must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.”

When taken in In context, it is clear that both passages refer to Christians, not unbelievers. The judgment seat of Christ, therefore, involves believers giving an account of their lives to Christ.

The judgment seat of Christ does not determine salvation; that was determined by Christ’s sacrifice on our behalf and our faith in Him. All of our sins are forgiven, and we will never be condemned for them which is recorded in Romans 8..

YOU should not look at the judgment seat of Christ as God judging our sins, but rather as God rewarding us for our lives. Yes, as the Bible says, we will have to give an account of ourselves. Part of this is answering for the sins we committed. However, that is not going to be the primary focus of the judgment seat of Christ.

At the judgment seat of Christ, believers are rewarded based on how faithfully they served Christ (1 Corinthians 9:4-27; 2 Timothy 2:5).
 
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Major1

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In response to those Bible texts we can sometimes get this response



Your false accusation could only work if someone thought those texts above were all written by Ellen White - (someone you are inserting into the post - because she is never quoted in it other than your attempt to insert)

I assume you can see this detail as easily as I can.

As a faithfull 7 Dat advantist I am sure that you want to believe that. However, real time recorded history does not support your opinions as it is easy to find from your OWN web sites that...........

"It was in February, 1845, on her “first journey East” that “the precious light in regard to the heavenly sanctuary” was opened to Ellen White (Letter 2, 1874). On February 15, 1846, she wrote Enoch Jacobs: IJWEGW 2.1

“God showed me the following, one year ago this month: I saw a throne and on it sat the Father and His Son Jesus Christ.... I saw the Father rise from the throne and in a flaming chariot go into the Holy of Holies within the veil, and did sit.... And I saw a cloudy chariot with wheels like flaming fire. Angels were all about the chariot as it came where Jesus was. He stepped into it and was borne to the Holiest where the Father sat.”—The Day-Star, March 14, 1846, p. 7. (See also Early Writings, 55.)

In her earliest account of the great controversy between Christ and Satan, published in 1858, she explained why Christ had entered the holy of holies in the heavenly sanctuary: IJWEGW 2.2

“As the priests in the earthly sanctuary entered the most holy once a year to cleanse the sanctuary, Jesus entered the most holy of the heavenly, at the end of the 2300 days of Daniel 8, in 1844, to make a final atonement for all who could be benefited by His mediation, and to cleanse the sanctuary....

“I saw that every case was then decided for life or death. Jesus had blotted out the sins of His people.... While Jesus had been ministering in the sanctuary, the judgment had been going on for the righteous dead, and then for the righteous living.”—1 SG 162, 197, 198.

Ellen White later adopted the phrase “investigative judgment” for this particular aspect of Christ’s ministry (The Spirit of Prophecy 4:266, etc.), though others appear to have used the term before she did (e.g., see James White, The Review and Herald, January 29, 1857, p. 100).

Source: The Investigative Judgment in the Writings of Ellen G. White — Ellen G. White Writings (egwwritings.org)
 
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Major1

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I leave it to the objective unbiased readers to see for themselves if I am the only one posting on this thread or if its having 670 views means "I am the only one viewing"

On the Specific thread I posted on was only post from YOU and 1 more person.

Now Bob....you knew that so why the deceptive post??????
 
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BobRyan

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I leave it to the objective unbiased readers to see for themselves if I am the only one posting on this thread or if its having 670 views means "I am the only one viewing"

On the Specific thread I posted on was only post from YOU and 1 more person.

Now Bob....you knew that so why the deceptive post??????

My post just states irrefutable facts. Do you find facts "deceptive"??
 
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BobRyan

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Jesus said in Matt 7 - "Not everyone who says Lord Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven but rather he who does..." - there is a judgment before the appearing of Christ happens but it does not change a lost person into a saved person rather it looks at the fruit to see if someone is a born-again Christian or not (a good tree or a bad tree as in the Matt 7 teaching). We see this in Rom 2:4-16 spelled out in detail.

Note: "looking at the tree" does not change it from "good to bad" or from "bad to good"

Seventh-day Adventists affirm the Dan 7:9-10, 22 statement on judgment in heaven that is:
1. pre-advent
2. based on deeds recorded in books of heaven
3. occurs before the coming of Christ
4. occurs while persecution of the saints is going on
5. Begins after the 1260 years of dark ages persecution mentioned in Dan 7
6. Is the work of Christ (God the Son) and the "Ancient of Day" (God the Father)
7. Christ's ongoing role in heaven is that of our High Priest Heb 8:1-3
8. The sanctuary in heaven is original of which the OT sanctuary was a miniature symbol/pattern with its two phase function of "daily" and then "Day of Atonement"

God the Father comes in and take his seat in judgment, a court is setup and books of record are opened for review in judgment:

Dan 7 four empires
Lion: Babylon
Bear: Medes and Persians.
Leopard: Greece
Dragon/Iron-beast: Rome
Little Horn (11th horn): A greater world empire than pagan Rome.

Dan 7:
9 “I kept looking
Until thrones were set up,
And the Ancient of Days took His seat;
His garment was white as snow,
And the hair of His head like pure wool.
His throne was ablaze with flames,
Its wheels were a burning fire.
10 A river of fire was flowing
And coming out from before Him;
Thousands upon thousands were serving Him,
And myriads upon myriads were standing before Him;
The court convened,
And the books were opened.​

God the Son - Jesus as High Priest (Heb 8:1-4) - comes to the Ancient of Days - comes to that court in heaven and at its conclusion receives full control over the Kingdom:

Dan 7:
13 “I kept looking in the night visions,
And behold, with the clouds of heaven
One like a son of man was coming,
And He came up to the Ancient of Days
And was presented before Him.
14 And to Him was given dominion,
Honor, and a kingdom,

So that all the peoples, nations, and populations of all languages
Might serve Him.
His dominion is an everlasting dominion
Which will not pass away;
And His kingdom is one
Which will not be destroyed.​

Saints are persecuted until that judgment based out of records contained in books is completed "Judgment passed in favor of the saints"

Dan 7:
19 “Then I desired to know the exact meaning of the fourth beast, which was different from all the others, exceedingly dreadful, with its teeth of iron and its claws of bronze, and which devoured, crushed, and trampled down the remainder with its feet, 20 and the meaning of the ten horns that were on its head, and the other horn which came up, and before which three of the horns fell, namely, that horn which had eyes and a mouth uttering great boasts, and which was larger in appearance than its associates. 21 I kept looking, and that horn was waging war with the saints and prevailing against them, 22 until the Ancient of Days came and judgment was passed in favor of the saints of the Highest One, and the time arrived when the saints took possession of the kingdom.​

Saints persecuted for 1260 years (apocalyptic writing uses day-for-year)

Dan 7;
25 And he will speak against the Most High and wear down the saints of the Highest One, and he will intend to make alterations in times and in law; and they will be handed over to him for a time, times, and half a time. (1260 years) 26 But the court will convene for judgment, and his dominion will be taken away, annihilated and destroyed forever.​

The court convenes sometime after the 1260 years of persecution - and all torment of the saints ends once the judgment is completed (passed in favor of the saints). And then we see Christ take over events on Earth.

====================


Rev 21 explains what it means to have judgment based on the content of books in heaven. It is individual... case by case, specific deeds. (As we also see in Rom 2:4-16)

Rev 21:
11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled, and no place was found for them. 12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds. 13 And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them; and they were judged, each one of them according to their deeds

2 Cor 5:10
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive compensation for his deeds done through the body, in accordance with what he has done, whether good or bad.​

In response to those Bible texts we can sometimes get this response

If you are suggesting Ellen Whites "Investigative Judgment" then you are in error as it is NOT BIBLICAL

Your false accusation could only work if someone thought those texts above were all written by Ellen White - (someone you are inserting into the post - because she is never quoted in it other than your attempt to insert)

I assume you can see this detail as easily as I can.

As a faithfull 7 Day adventist I am sure that you want to believe that.

It is entirely possible you can't see it I suppose. Do you have a point for those Bible texts above?

However, real time recorded history does not support your opinions as it is easy to find from your OWN web sites that...........

My post is not "all the websites of the world" -- rather it is the actual OP here.

care to respond??

"It was in February, 1845, on her “first journey East” that “the precious light in regard to the heavenly sanctuary” was opened to Ellen White

Will you be responding "Ellen White... Ellen White" to every Bible text posted???

You seem to be looking for an "all Ellen White thread" -- try reading the content of the OP and responding to those texts.

If you are waiting for me to object to the fact that Ellen White wrote statements in line with the texts in the OP --- you may be waiting a while.
 
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