AdamjEdgar
Well-Known Member
I think you are confusing two separate terms here...investigation and judgement.Investigative Judgment in person
There is an investigative judgment of professed believers in God, but it is not in absentia as Adventists indicate, but is before the judgment seat of Christ, in person, at Jesus' coming. It involves us being present, giving an account, blowing at the name of Jesus, confessing, and the secrets of the heart are revealed. This resolves any issues of God's justice that the investigative judgment of Adventists is meant to address.
2 TIMOTHY 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom
The judgment is before Christ, at His appearing. He judges the living and the dead at that time.
Rom 14:10 Why do you pass judgment on your brother? Or you, why do you despise your brother? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God;
Rom 14:11 for it is written, “As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.”
Rom 14:12 So then each of us will give an account of himself to God.
We stand before the judgment seat
We bow
We confess
We give an account.
You cannot stand, bow, confess or give an account if you are not present, as in the Adventist IJ. This is an in-person judgment before Christ.
1Co 4:5 Therefore do not pronounce judgment before the time, before the Lord comes, who will bring to light the things now hidden in darkness and will disclose the purposes of the heart. Then each one will receive his commendation from God.
Jesus discloses the purposes of the heart when He comes.
Bob indicates that these clear texts about our in-person judgment before Christ do not in fact indicate an in-person judgment, just as we are not physically present in Ephesians 2:5
In this passage we are assured of the work of God for us. It refers back to themes from Ephesians chapter 1. We are blessed IN Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places.
Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places
Paul then recounts a series of blessings that we have by being in Christ (these blessings come through union with Him, by being in Him).
Eph 1:4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world...
Eph 1:7 In him we have redemption...
Eph 1:11 In him we have obtained an inheritance....
Eph 1:13 In him you also were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit...
After recounting the blessings that we have by being IN Christ Paul then relates how He wants the Ephesians to know the full extent of God's wisdom, power, etc. available for them:
Eph 1:15 For this reason, because I have heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love toward all the saints,
Eph 1:16 I do not cease to give thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers,
Eph 1:17 that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give you the Spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of him,
Eph 1:18 having the eyes of your hearts enlightened, that you may know what is the hope to which he has called you, what are the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints,
Eph 1:19 and what is the immeasurable greatness of his power toward us who believe, according to the working of his great might
Eph 1:20 that he worked in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places,
Eph 1:21 far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and above every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come.
Eph 1:22 And he put all things under his feet and gave him as head over all things to the church,
Eph 1:23 which is his body, the fullness of him who fills all in all.
By the working of God's mighty strength Christ was raised from the dead and seated at God's right hand in the heavenly places. There He reigns over all things in behalf of the church, which is His body.
It is in this context that we encounter the text referenced by Bob:
Eph 2:1 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins
Eph 2:2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience—
Eph 2:3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.
Eph 2:4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us,
Eph 2:5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—
Eph 2:6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
Eph 2:7 so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
We spiritually participate in the death, burial and reseurrection to new life of Christ through being IN Him. We are made alive together WITH Christ (who as we saw in chapter 1 is seated in the heavenly realms). We are spiritually there with Him, where He reigns over all things for us. And we will in the future "coming ages" we will be reigning with Him physically.
Now this spiritual reality pictured here of our position and place by being "In Christ" spiritually and connected to Him as the head of the church, does not in any way explain the texts about in person judgment.
The texts show us kneeling, confessing, given an account, etc. But in the Adventist IJ that is not the case at all.
From Great Controversy chapter 28:
The judgment is now passing in the sanctuary above. For many years this work has been in progress. Soon—none know how soon—it will pass to the cases of the living. In the awful presence of God our lives are to come up in review. At this time above all others it behooves every soul to heed the Saviour's admonition: "Watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is."
a bit later:
Perilous is the condition of those who, growing weary of their watch, turn to the attractions of the world. While the man of business is absorbed in the pursuit of gain, while the pleasure lover is seeking indulgence, while the daughter of fashion is arranging her adornments—it may be in that hour the Judge of all the earth will pronounce the sentence: "Thou art weighed in the balances, and art found wanting."
Ellen White notes that we don't know when the judgment will begin on the living. And we do not know when our case is reviewed, and we may be absorbed in the world at the time when we are weighed and found wanting.
This in absentia judgment described by Ellen White sometime prior to Jesus' coming, without our knowledge, without us giving an account, without us confessing, bowing, having the secrets of our heart revealed, and receiving commendation from God, etc. is not what the Bible texts describe
2 TIMOTHY 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom
Rom 14:10 Why do you pass judgment on your brother? Or you, why do you despise your brother? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God;
Rom 14:11 for it is written, “As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.”
Rom 14:12 So then each of us will give an account of himself to God.
1Co 4:5 Therefore do not pronounce judgment before the time, before the Lord comes, who will bring to light the things now hidden in darkness and will disclose the purposes of the heart. Then each one will receive his commendation from God.
Bob claims the IJ is seen in Romans 2
However, Romans 2 also makes plain that it is "on that day", when God judges the secrets of men.
Rom 2:16 on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.
On what day? At His coming, when He is plainly stated to reveal the purposes of the heart.
1Co 4:5 Therefore do not pronounce judgment before the time, before the Lord comes, who will bring to light the things now hidden in darkness and will disclose the purposes of the heart. Then each one will receive his commendation from God.
Bob also indicates we see the investigative judgment in 2 Cor 5:10. However, this too does not fit the Adventist investigative judgment:
2Co 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil.
At the judgment seat of Christ we receive what is due. That is not an absentia judgment.
We see this spelled out in additional texts, besides those already reviewed:
Mat 25:14 “For it will be like a man going on a journey, who called his servants and entrusted to them his property.
Mat 25:15 To one he gave five talents, to another two, to another one, to each according to his ability. Then he went away.
Mat 25:16 He who had received the five talents went at once and traded with them, and he made five talents more.
Mat 25:17 So also he who had the two talents made two talents more.
Mat 25:18 But he who had received the one talent went and dug in the ground and hid his master's money.
Mat 25:19 Now after a long time the master of those servants came and settled accounts with them.
Mat 25:20 And he who had received the five talents came forward, bringing five talents more, saying, ‘Master, you delivered to me five talents; here, I have made five talents more.’
Mat 25:21 His master said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant. You have been faithful over a little; I will set you over much. Enter into the joy of your master.’
Mat 25:22 And he also who had the two talents came forward, saying, ‘Master, you delivered to me two talents; here, I have made two talents more.’
Mat 25:23 His master said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant. You have been faithful over a little; I will set you over much. Enter into the joy of your master.’
Mat 25:24 He also who had received the one talent came forward, saying, ‘Master, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you did not sow, and gathering where you scattered no seed,
Mat 25:25 so I was afraid, and I went and hid your talent in the ground. Here, you have what is yours.’
Mat 25:26 But his master answered him, ‘You wicked and slothful servant! You knew that I reap where I have not sown and gather where I scattered no seed?
Mat 25:27 Then you ought to have invested my money with the bankers, and at my coming I should have received what was my own with interest.
Mat 25:28 So take the talent from him and give it to him who has the ten talents.
Mat 25:29 For to everyone who has will more be given, and he will have an abundance. But from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away.
Mat 25:30 And cast the worthless servant into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’
Mat 25:31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne.
Mat 25:32 Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.
Mat 25:33 And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left.
Mat 25:34 Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
Mat 25:35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me,
Mat 25:36 I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’
Mat 25:37 Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink?
Mat 25:38 And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you?
Mat 25:39 And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’
Mat 25:40 And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’
Mat 25:41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
Mat 25:42 For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink,
Mat 25:43 I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’
Mat 25:44 Then they also will answer, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?’
Mat 25:45 Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’
Mat 25:46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
They appear before Him, He judges them, and some protest, but He presents the evidence against them. Then they receive their reward.
Rom 14:10 Why do you pass judgment on your brother? Or you, why do you despise your brother? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God;
Rom 14:11 for it is written, “As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.”
Rom 14:12 So then each of us will give an account of himself to God.
We stand before the judgment seat
We bow
We confess
We give an account.
You cannot stand, bow, confess or give an account if you are not present, and do not know when your name is reviewed.
Now you have just thrown together an enormously long essay based on an incorrect interpretation and assumption...you just completely wasted half an hour or more of writing producing a completely irrelevant answer .
Even Adventists do not claim judgement is in absentia (I am not sure how you come to this conclusion but it's an incorrect description of SDA belief?
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