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Adventist end time beliefs?

Jesse Johnson

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Antinomianism is a fairly new phenomenon. The notion that God waves a magic wand after a person says a canned prayer and they suddenly know exactly how to love God supremely and their neighbor as themselves without any instruction is ridiculous. During the height of the Protestant reformation, fairly strong words were used to express the obligation of the faithful to keep God's ten commandments.

Luther, himself, wrote an urgent, epistolary treatise on the matter when he was thought to be dead, and so accused of espousing the abrogation of God's law:

"And truly, I wonder exceedingly, how it came to be imputed to me, that I should reject the Law or ten Commandments, there being extant so many of my own expositions (and those of several sorts) upon the Commandments, which also are daily expounded, and used in our Churches, to say nothing of the Confession and Apology, and other books of ours. Add hereunto the custom we have to sing the Commandments in two different tunes;3 besides the painting, printing, carving, and rehearsing them by children, both morning, noon, and evening; So that I know no other way than what we have used, but that we do not (alas!) as we ought, really express and delineate them in our lives and conversations. And I myself as old as I am, use to [have it for my custom to] recite them daily, as a child, Word for Word; so that if any should have mistaken, what I had written, he might (seeing and feeling as it were, how vehemently I use to urge these Catechetical exercises) in reason have been persuaded to call upon me, and demand these or the like questions. What? Good Doctor Luther, dost thou press so eagerly the ten Commandments, and yet teachest withal, that they must be rejected? Thus they ought to have dealt with me; and not secretly undermine me behind my back, and then to wait for my death, that so they might afterwards make of me what themselves pleased. Well, I forgive them, if they leave these courses. Verily, I have taught and still teach, that sinners must be moved to Repentance by the preaching & pondering of the sufferings of Christ, that they may see how great the wrath of God is against sin: and that it cannot be otherwise expiated but by the death of the son of God: Which is not mine, but Bernard's doctrine. But why doe I mention Bernard? It is the doctrine of the whole Christian world, and which all the Prophets and Apostles have delivered. But how doth it hence follow,4 that therefore the law must be taken away? I find no such inference in my Logick; and I would gladly see or hear that Logician, that would demonstrate the truth of this conclusion. When Isaias saith, chapter 53, I have smitten him for the sins of my people; I pray tell me; here Christ's sufferings are preached, that he was smitten for our sins: Is the Law hereby rejected? what is the meaning of these words: For the sins of my people? Is not this the sense of them: Because my people have sinned against my law, and not kept the same? Or can it be imaginable, that there should be any sin, where there is no law? Whosoever abrogates the law, must of necessity abrogate sin also.5 If he must suffer sin to be, he must much more suffer the being of the law. For the Apostle saith: Rom. 5: Where no law is, there is no sin. If there be no sin, then Christ is nothing. For why died he, if there were no law nor sin, for which he ought to die? Hence you may see, that the Devil intends, by this Ghostly Gambold to take away, not so much the law, as Christ, the fulfiller of the law."
(Excerpt from "Doctor Martin Luther, Against Antinomians," circa 1539)
 
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Dave L

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No one has kindled a fire in hundreds of years---unless you're out camping. It's quite a bit of work. And, it can be done just before sundown. No big deal. The object is to rest, flipping a switch is not exactly a 30 min. work out of the fingers.
= working the system. Let someone else get dirty for me?
 
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mmksparbud

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The Hebrews borrowed their laws from the Egyptian Book of the Dead and the Babylonans. Leviticus and Deuteronomy were written during and after the Babylonian exile.


You have that backwards. God and the Jews came first. The Jews had a more verbal tradition---it doesn't matter who wrote it down first. It all happened with God's people and everyone else took it from them. I don't know where you got you info from but Lev. and Duet. are considered to have been written at the time of the dessert wanderings. They came long before the Babylonian exile.

Are you Jewish? I never in my lifetime considered laying a fire to be work.

No, I am not Jewish. The Jews today consider even flipping the light switch as kindling a fire---they turn the lights on before Sabbath and leave them on till after sabbath---by then they're needed again anyway so they still lit for a while. They would rather walk up 5 flights of stairs then push the button on an elavator for that is creating a spark of electrical energy. To me walking 5 flights of stairs is work! No, I don't consider lighti9ng a fireplace work---unless you're having to clean it out first!
 
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summerville

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mmksparbud

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= working the system. Let someone else get dirty for me?

Like how?

in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
 
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summerville

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You have that backwards. God and the Jews came first. The Jews had a more verbal tradition---it doesn't matter who wrote it down first. It all happened with God's people and everyone else took it from them. I don't know where you got you info from but Lev. and Duet. are considered to have been written at the time of the dessert wanderings. They came long before the Babylonian exile.



No, I am not Jewish. The Jews today consider even flipping the light switch as kindling a fire---they turn the lights on before Sabbath and leave them on till after sabbath---by then they're needed again anyway so they still lit for a while. They would rather walk up 5 flights of stairs then push the button on an elavator for that is creating a spark of electrical energy. To me walking 5 flights of stairs is work! No, I don't consider lighti9ng a fireplace work---unless you're having to clean it out first!

God came first, but the Jews were just a landless Canaanite tribe from Northeastern Syria.
 
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mmksparbud

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It really wasn't a Bible yet and it wasn't the Torah either. The Torah in its final form was probably around 250 BC.

Composition of the Torah - Wikipedia

LOL! Interesting what people come up with. All the laws and the words of Mosses were written at the time of Mosses. The Jews were mostly a verbal tradition before that.
 
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mmksparbud

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God came first, but the Jews were just a landless Canaanite tribe from Northeastern Syria.

There were no Jews until Jacob had his sons. They were called Jews from the name of Judah, Jacobs son. Abraham was not a Jew. He is the father of them---and of the Muslim. First time the word Jew was used is in the story of Esther. Abram came from Ur and went to Haran and then to Canaan.
Gen_12:5 And Abram took Sarai his wife, and Lot his brother's son, and all their substance that they had gathered, and the souls that they had gotten in Haran; and they went forth to go into the land of Canaan; and into the land of Canaan they came.
 
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Jesse Johnson

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It really wasn't a Bible yet and it wasn't the Torah either. The Torah in its final form was probably around 250 BC.

Composition of the Torah - Wikipedia
I'd be careful about relying on Wikipedia for Biblical history. It's a fine institution, and I contribute both financial and editorial support, but it is subject to much misguided tampering.

Moses, according to Ussher's Masoretic Chronological scholarship, died in the early 15th century BC. He wrote both the book of Job and all five volumes of the Pentateuch. It seems awfully doubtful to me that God would have allowed His people to be orphaned as to His will for them for 1200 years. Very, very unlikely. Bordering on preposterous, in fact.
 
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Dave L

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Like how?

in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
DO you eat in restaurants on Saturday?
 
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