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Adventism and Universalism

AzA

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LF -- you've been beautifully gracious so far. Cheers.

Since you believe that "God is love, accepts us, [and] changes us," why do you also expect him to fail to love, accept, and change a segment of his own creation? What about that segment do you think he doesn't know about? Or, what about that segment is going to befuddle him? What do you believe he has failed to plan for that consigns some of his children to nonexistence?
 
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ListenerFriendly

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Thanks, try to keep a postive vibe going on. Kind of like hippies on weed, but I'm not on weed--hippie, let that to you to decide :D. Anyway, strange comparison aside, I think you bring up some interesting points.
Still, I'm not exactly convinced I catch your train of thought. I imagine that you are referencing those that don't join in eternal salvation. If that is the case, I don't see a failed plan--I see a loving creator who weeps and who longs for those who reject him (note the difference here between rejecting and not choosing--major difference). I'm not sure i would call it lack of a plan or even a failed plan.
There is a mystery to redemption. The idea that the "wages of sin is death but the gift of God eternal life." This mystery of eternal life and God himself "giving his only son" to die to take our place--that's love, that's change. The only catch to the whole deal is this "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved." So the only condition is that we need accept Christ when we have the knowledge to do so. If no one ever has the oppurrtunity to accept, if they never have the mental capacity, if they reject a form of God (the god I see in much of the Western churches might count) that isn't really what God is (believe me, I've rejected that hell fire and brimstone, condemning thing they sell)--God understands. He has the knowledge, he has the love and the power. God is the one who decides.
You and I have a lot in common in our views on the mercilessness of much of the way hell is taught and the ideas of redemption and grace and what not. I think one area we take a different track is that God is hurt by those who reject him. Yet his mercy has to allow them to meet their chosen fate ("the wages of sin is death;" at this point they've rejected his gift of eternal life, that's a group that has been offered and turned down knowingly--a difference between not choosing). This is pain. NT Wright wrote a fine book exposing the ways in which we've westernized an "eastern religion," if you will, christanity. We've lost the shattering, the transforming, the rebelious, the poetic and religion busting message of one of the greatest peace-makers of all time. Ghandi once said that if it weren't for Christians, the whole world would be Christian. We've lost the thread. Yet NT Wright made the remarks that maybe the reason mortals can't look at God's face in his divinity is not because it overpowers us, but because that face is so broken and overcome with grief and sadness and pain for his creation gone astray. That's love, that's acceptance.

When I think of truth, I think of a mystery. It's something we're never fully going to comprehend. Something we never can with our mortal minds. We may think we have it down with christian creed and adventist doctrine--but truth is a mystery of God. He wants us t think things out, he want's us to "reason together" with him. But we cannot get all the anwers. Truth is such a mysterious concrete, yet abstract, concept that we cannot can spend lives contemplating. It's the poetry of the spiritual realm, the controversy of scholars, and the stuff of conversation between you and I.

PEACE
 
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NT Wright is quite an interesting guy. one of my favorite writers at the moment is Shaine Claiborne. the Irresistible Revolution is such a conversational thinking piece. Also Rob Bell can be a fascinating guy to read. Relevant Magazine often features some writings from them as well. The emerging Church is changing. I think, to an extent, there is a movement in the right direction with some intellect.

PEACE
 
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sentipente

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The written communication is a ministry of death, good and evil.

There must be death to the soul to enter into the life of the spirit.

Joe
These cliches need to be translated into common language. What are you trying to say?
 
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Joe67

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These cliches need to be translated into common language. What are you trying to say?
Every mature farmer knows this lesson. The good seed must die in the ground before it springs up out of the ground.

Not enough water, the seed dehydrates and the life remains in the ground.
Too much water, the seed rots and the life remains in the ground.

Likewise with temperature, nutrients, air.

The written word of God is good seed but it must die to spring up into eternal life.

Joe
 
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A

AndrewK788

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Every mature farmer knows this lesson. The good seed must die in the ground before it springs up out of the ground.

Not enough water, the seed dehydrates and the life remains in the ground.
Too much water, the seed rots and the life remains in the ground.

Likewise with temperature, nutrients, air.

The written word of God is good seed but it must die to spring up into eternal life.

Joe

The word of God must die to spring into eternal life?

I've heard of people saying we must die to self to gain eternal life. What exactly do you mean by the word of God must die?

Plain, straightforward English would be appreciated. :wave:
 
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Joe67

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The word of God must die to spring into eternal life?

I've heard of people saying we must die to self to gain eternal life. What exactly do you mean by the word of God must die?

Plain, straightforward English would be appreciated. :wave:
Romans 7:1
"Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?" Little children of all societies do not know law. Youth onward profess to know law and thereby its benefits.

Romans 7:6
"But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter."

This is for those who delight in the law after the inward man, the spiritual nature of the law; those who hear the law. The law is the seed of the word. All men are bound under law, even gospel requirements.

The experience of those who hate the law are back in Romans chapter one. Those who profess to obey the law are described in Romans chapter two. Conviction for sin in chapter three, with an introduction to grace and justification. Justification is further unfolded in chapter four and five.

Spiritual death and spiritual resurrection are testified in chapter six. Chapter seven and eight are a further amplification of this victory in Jesus through dying to that which once held us in bondage and being raised up to serve the law of God in newness through the spirit of Jesus.

The old man must stay in the ground. The new man of the spirit, mind and purpose of God in the resurrected Jesus of Nazareth is what comes out of the ground. All things have become new. We are raised up in Jesus' resurrection and we sit in heavenly places in Him, while we serve the nations on earth.

Joe
 
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