Adventism and Universalism

[HeavenOnEarthNow]

I'm sure I once read that some Adventists are Universalists, now I am trying to find out more about them.

In researching this I came across these statements:

"As ministers, they focused much more strongly on the health reform oriented doctrines of EGW and her emerging ideas of universal salvation (contradicting her earlier "Shut Door" testimonies) than on the fundamentalist- apocalyptic theology of the General Conference (as the formal ministry of the church was organized)."

"The vast majority of EGW's testimonies were about what Adventists should eat, wear, and do in propagation of the faith. Issues directly affecting the church business operations were often addressed. Many of the testimonies were spiritual in nature, but they ran the gamut from hell-fire damnation to universal forgiveness, apparently paralleling EGW's own spiritual development from her fanatically fundamentalist-apocalyptic roots to become the spiritual leader of a major new religious movement."

http://ubfellowship.org/archive/history/doc171.htm

I have also found this discussion on "clubadventist"

http://clubadventist.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/175822/WHY_I_BELIEVE_THE_BIBLE_TEACHE

Can anyone give me some background on Adventism and Universal Salvation?

 

[sentipente]

Adventism embraces the doctrine of hell as much as does the church next door.

 

[RC_NewProtestants]

Very few Adventist believe in Universal salvation because it is hard to reconcile with several Biblical texts. It is a tempting idea but I have not seen anyway to make it work when using the Bible. I have never heard anything that EGW believed it.

Universal forgiveness I think many more Adventists would agree with; that God has forgiven all, that all can be saved if they would only accept the gift God offers. I think you can find that thought in the writing of EGW but not the idea of Universal salvation.

 

[tall73]

I'm sure I once read that some Adventists are Universalists, now I am trying to find out more about them.

The official belief of Adventists is annihilationism, the view that God does send the wicked to hell but they are eventually destroyed completely.

From the official beliefs:

27. Millennium and the End of Sin:
The millennium is the thousand-year reign of Christ with His saints in heaven between the first and second resurrections. During this time the wicked dead will be judged; the earth will be utterly desolate, without living human inhabitants, but occupied by Satan and his angels. At its close Christ with His saints and the Holy City will descend from heaven to earth. The unrighteous dead will then be resurrected, and with Satan and his angels will surround the city; but fire from God will consume them and cleanse the earth. The universe will thus be freed of sin and sinners forever. (Rev. 20; 1 Cor. 6:2, 3; Jer. 4:23-26; Rev. 21:1-5; Mal. 4:1; Eze. 28:18, 19.)


This is something I drew up that looks at the texts on hell from an annihilationist perspective if you are interested in more details:
http://christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=36566657&postcount=1

 

[Restin]

Universal forgiveness I think many more Adventists would agree with;

Universal forgiveness, I can agree on.
Luke 23:34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. KJV

"Can anyone give me some background on Adventism and Universal Salvation?"

Universal Salvation as a doctrine - I know little about.
Adventism, I have 30+ years experience, so a pragmatic viewpoint!

I was raised by SDA parents and went to SDA schools. Early in life I was given to think that, by adoption, 'we were Israel and only those who believed like 'us SDAs' had any part with Christ'. As I grew to middle age, I ventured into beliefs of other 'faiths'. Much to my amazement I found that almost every other religion believed they were the 'only church' and you have to believe 'like us'. At the age of 40 my views became challenged!

Isaiah 19:24 In that day shall Israel be the third with Egypt and with Assyria, even a blessing in the midst of the land: 25 Whom the LORD of hosts shall bless, saying, Blessed be Egypt my people, and Assyria the work of my hands, and Israel mine inheritance. KJV

The following belief not an 'official' SDA position: At the beginning of 'retirement years', I have come to believe that salvation extends to more than just 'Israel'. However, ISRAEL remains the part that is "Mine Inheritance."

While this thought gives some direction toward universalism, this understanding, in my mind, is more of a combination of 3 parts, while each part being separate, each part has a different understanding about God, there is forgiveness among the whole.

The body has many members/parts but one head - 1 Corinthians 12:12.
My Father's house has many mansions. John 14:12.

In Christ.......Restin

 

[JonMiller]

Isn't it obvious that any set of people will believe that they are right, and that those who disagree with them are wrong? I am always very confused by the people who claim amazement or surprise about this.

JM

 

[sentipente]

Very few Adventist believe in Universal salvation because it is hard to reconcile with several Biblical texts. It is a tempting idea but I have not seen anyway to make it work when using the Bible.

Strange you should say that.

 

[common tater]

dear restin,

i think i messed up when i tried to respond to your latest post. i'm trying again.

i was kind of surprised that you found other denoms thinking that they had a lock on the truth. i looked long and hard, did a bunch of research, talked to folks from different denominations, and was very happy to find that although they may have differed on some of their doctrines, when it came to core beliefs, not only did they agree on these core beliefs, but they felt that other denomination were all part of the body of christ. no problem with fellowshipping with different faiths. i happen to attend a united methodist church a mile or so up the road from my house. do i accept john wesley as an authoritative source of truth? well, heavens no, and i've never heard anybody in the church voice such an opinion either. shucks, several of our members (including my neighbor) are baptists and they have no issue attending a methodist church, the folks raised as methodists don't seem to see any problems with the baptists in their midst, and fact is my pastor was raised a free-will baptist. i love that if i differ with other folks in sunday school, i don't have to worry that i'm not toeing some party line. i learn as much from people with different viewpoints as i hope they might learn from me. and trust me, it ain't because we are a bunch of "liberal loma linda" methodists. i live smack in the middle of the bible belt down here in south carolina. no offence to folks from loma linda, i grew up in northern california and was told that all the west coast sda folk was on the wild side. plus, i got family in loma linda.

 

[mva1985]

Universal Salvation.

 

[sentipente]

Universal Salvation.

Keep on declaring it. Who knows? You may convince the Creator that He should put His race asunder.

 

[mva1985]

Please be kind enough to prove from the Bible the doctrine of Universal Salvation.

Keep on declaring it. Who knows? You may convince the Creator that He should put His race asunder.

 

[sentipente]

Please be kind enough to prove from the Bible the doctrine of Universal Salvation.

Let us begin with the premise that God created the human race as one, has never divided it and has consistently referrred to it as one. Do you accept that premise? Do you believe the opinions of men, even holy men, can change how the Creator views his creation?

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

I'm sure I once read that some Adventists are Universalists, now I am trying to find out more about them.

SDAs officially believe in annihilationism -- the teaching that hellfire burns for a limited period of time and utterly destroys those thrown into it, as opposed to mainstream ET (eternal torment) teachings held by most other Protestant sects.

SDA eschatology MIGHT contain the roots of Universalism, in the sense that a thorough comprehension of it in light of the whole "great controversy" theme the SDAs love so much, can easily lead to awareness of the Reconciliation. But Moriah honestly does not know sometimes where to draw the line between something God reveals and what He bes stuck using to reach the human vessel with the revelation. IOW it bes near impossible to objectively assess such a thing as none of us can step outside of the experiential "paths" we took to arrive where we find ourselves now to say what God placed where for X reasons versus what we stumbled into that He decided to use a certain way to accomplish His purposes.

http://ubfellowship.org/archive/history/doc171.htm

Can't answer for this but don't think the site bes SDA.
http://ubfellowship.org/archive/history/doc171.htm

I have also found this discussion on "clubadventist"

http://clubadventist.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/175822/WHY_I_BELIEVE_THE_BIBLE_TEACHE

Can anyone give me some background on Adventism and Universal Salvation?

The person who began this discussion does not appear to be a longtime member of Club Adventist. And only one other CA member seems favorably disposed to the discussion -- we see also the usual "your post bes too long and no one will read it" trolling non-answer along with the usual detractors trying to discredit and invalidate the OP. Hardly a representation of a nest of Aware among the house of the Seven.

 

[mva1985]

Let us begin with the premise that God created the human race as one, has never divided it and has consistently referrred to it as one. Do you accept that premise? Do you believe the opinions of men, even holy men, can change how the Creator views his creation?

God created the human race as one? What does that mean? He created Adam and Eve and they procreated from there.

Has never divided? Again what does that mean?

 

[StormyOne]

God created the human race as one? What does that mean? He created Adam and Eve and they procreated from there.

Has never divided? Again what does that mean?

by your response it probably means that you may not be ready for this discussion..... but I could be wrong...

 

[mva1985]

by your response it probably means that you may not be ready for this discussion..... but I could be wrong...

He is asking me to accept a premise that HE has not defined. So if we want to be clear then he should define exactly what he is talking about.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

Isn't it obvious that any set of people will believe that they are right,

It isn't obvious to me. No man is righteous. There is none who understands. Should I draw the line in the sand about issues that aren't expressly addressed in Scripture? I don't think so.

and that those who disagree with them are wrong?

I am wrong about a number of things. I just don't know it yet. Why should I draw any conclusions about the "rightness" or "wrongness" of others?

I am always very confused by the people who claim amazement or surprise about this.

I am amazed and surprised. The Bible advocates for humility. It teaches that men aren't righteous. It teaches that men don't understand. Why then should we conclude that we are righteous and that we do understand? I continue to be surpised by the dogmatic approach of some.

BFA

 

[StormyOne]

It isn't obvious to me. No man is righteous. There is none who understands. Should I draw the line in the sand about issues that aren't expressly addressed in Scripture? I don't think so.



I am wrong about a number of things. I just don't know it yet. Why should I draw any conclusions about the "rightness" or "wrongness" of others?



I am amazed and surprised. The Bible advocates for humility. It teaches that men aren't righteous. It teaches that men don't understand. Why then should we conclude that we are righteous and that we do understand? I continue to be surpised by the dogmatic approach of some.

BFA

quite reasonable, and I appreciate you saying that.... your comments are on point, I just wish more would share that view...

 

[AzA]

I think it was RC who distinguished between universal forgiveness and universal salvation, and I thought that was interesting. Goes to show that premises like that -- what is salvation? what is humanity? what is grace? what is restoration? what does "all" mean? who are "His people"? -- that will take one either towards a position like universal reconciliation or way against it.
Say you also distinguish between the rule of law and the rule of grace. You might end up having to choose one over the other, and you probably will.

 

[JonMiller]

You realize that your view, is also what you beleive is right. And that you hold that other views are wrong?

I am always confused by the lack of reasoning of very smart people when it comes down to this. It is inherently wrong reasoning, which is the only sort of reasoning that can be 'proved' to be wrong.

The only people who don't hold that views are right and wrong, are ones that fry their minds and are incapable of reasoning thought.

JM