Adjusting our speak for the other sex?

[jmz]

Should men purposefully and willfully change they way they speak when speaking to women and vice versa? Or should they be themselves and speak as they normally would to any human.
I'm not talking about topical stuff. Obviously in general men and women do have different interests, jsut sit in on conversations between males only and conversations between females only. And definitely not talking about morality. Our words should always be seasoned with grace and we should have wholesome talk exit our mouths. I'm meaning more the delivery. Should men adjust their delivery for women and vice versa?

An example that ive heard of is men should tone down the logical approach to some topics, be less opinionated, less rational and even speak with softer tones (though im unsure what this means for a guy who has a very naturally rough tone lol), and the like.

Im unsure what women "should" do as i only see the recommendation for men to "tone down the logic stuff". Not a lot of suggestion for women

Is this type of thinking have any basis, what are you thoughts? I often hear this in conversation especially around husbands and wives. Sons and mothers,
Father's and daughters.

I also find the request for men to "tone down the logic" rather disrespectful towards women. Even when the request is coming from a women!

My vote is no, we should talk to each other however we talk to humans in general and our concern should be on the content of what we are saying, the heart intention of what we say and the wholesomeness of the topic.

Thoughts?

 

[PloverWing]

An example that ive heard of is men should tone down the logical approach to some topics, be less opinionated, less rational and even speak with softer tones (though im unsure what this means for a guy who has a very naturally rough tone lol), and the like.

Im unsure what women "should" do as i only see the recommendation for men to "tone down the logic stuff".

I haven't heard the recommendation to "tone down the logic stuff", so maybe you could elaborate on what you mean.

Taking the items in your list:

1. Being less opinionated: If you mean having a bit of humility, acknowledging that you could be wrong, and being willing to listen respectfully to others' opinions, this sounds like good interpersonal advice in general.

2. Being less rational: I don't know what this would mean. Being irrational? That can't be helpful. Maybe it means acknowledging the emotional side of interpersonal relationships, but rationality and emotion can coexist. Can you clarify?

3. Softer tones: This one I've seen in action. My daughter is sensitive to loud voices, and I've seen her totally collapse into tears when male relatives shout at her, completely ending any possibility of communication. If you want to talk to her and actually communicate, then speak in a softer tone.

I don't know how gender-correlated #3 is. My daughter's spouse and in-laws are all used to speaking softly (including the men in the family), and on the other side of things, I know some women who talk loudly much of the time. But be aware of your audience's tolerance for loud voices.


A final thought: One thing you might be talking about is problem-solving vs. listening. Sometimes when someone says "I had a terrible afternoon today; let me tell you all the things that went wrong", sometimes they want you to help them solve a problem, but other times they just want to share their feelings about their terrible day with a kind and listening ear. It's important to discern -- quickly! -- what kind of conversation you're having. If the other person wants to share their feelings, and you start problem-solving, then you're implicitly telling them that you aren't interested in their feelings, and in fact they're pretty dumb for having had those feelings, because there was an obvious solution which you are now going to provide for them. This invites the feeling-sharing person to punch the problem-solving person in the nose for being a pompous jerk.

Human communication has many layers, verbal and nonverbal, literal and pragmatic. It's good to be aware of as many layers as possible when you're conversing, and especially to make sure that the two of you are having the same conversation.

 

[RDKirk]

So...talk to women as though they were children?

Is that supposed to apply when a male soldier is talking to a female superior officer?

 

[Psalmofmercy]

Please don't talk to us differently just because we are women. That could feel unintentionally patronizing and reinforce negative and harmful stereotypes. Maybe instead you could talk to us depending on other factors like our personality, interests, etc.

 

[jmz]

Absolutely! This is why i struggle with this recommendation... Seems very demeaning. But have heard women (and men too!) say things like this. Even be asked not to approach something so rationally. In fact once i was on discussion on social media on a topic re psychology and a woman asked me "You're not one of those people who approach things logically are you?"...what am i suppose to say to this?! lol

And agree @Psalmofmercy with what you say about other factors interests etc, especially topical. But this isnt just women, men have differing interests, personalities from each other as well. Though topically men tend to gravitate towards similar things and likewise for women. Massive study done on this.

@RDKirk thats an interesting one, as strangely in the workplace this issue reduces a little....a litttle...due to the requirments of one's job and the incentive of reward(money) or the purpose of ones work i think.

@PloverWing i cant really elaborate more than that. Ive (and other of my male mates) literally been asked to not talk with as much rationality (was a discussion on economics)
My daughter and i can have lots of discussions, fun, intellectual, serious, silly, just reminisicing about life and the full gamut and have no issues whatsoever. And i dont adjust for her because she is femaile or she for me other than what is contextual to the topic.

Overall i find it absurd and glad to hear that im not the only one lol.

I THINK a large part of it comes from a sense to feel heard? But why women and not men? Like do people find Ben Shapiro "too logical"? I dont. Actually in some cases i find him not logical enough lol. But there are people who do find him "too logical". And im wondering if what they mean is i wish he wouldnt....insert something that you wish he would change about his delivery....
But if it was that, why say hes too logical, why not say something else?

 

[ViaCrucis]

If what you're saying isn't something you think could be said in a conversation with a woman, then you probably shouldn't be saying it at all.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[jmz]

If what you're saying isn't something you think could be said in a conversation with a woman, then you probably shouldn't be saying it at all.

-CryptoLutheran

Right so in one example i remember it was a discussion about economics and a woman got very angry because we had suggested that due to economic reasons which we had gotten into earlier, handing out lots of money to people is ultimately going to plunge the country into more recession, debt and overall lack of welfare. She got very triggered, angry, swearing etc at that saying that you cant be logical about it etc

Are you suggesting then that because i conclude that talking about this topic in front of this woman clearly wasnt helpful for her and wasnt going to go down well that i should therefore never talk about it to anyone? That seems a bit odd? Cos other people ive talked with about this topic have been completely fine with it even when in disagreement as to best approach re welfare.

Now putting on my psychology hat i think what she likely is upset about and is likely selectively hearing is "giving tax money to poor people is bad because...bla bla bla" and concludes "dude doesnt care about poor people" which is far from what was said... This then triggers her and she responds with that statement. I dont see why i should therefore not talk to people about this topic because some woman couldnt handle the conversation?

 

[RDKirk]

If what you're saying isn't something you think could be said in a conversation with a woman, then you probably shouldn't be saying it at all.

-CryptoLutheran

As the father of a son and grandfather of a grandson, there are conversations I have with them that I would not have with my daughter or granddaughters. Nor would I have that same conversation with my wife, although my wife knows and approves my conversations with my son and grandson. I also have conversations with my daughter that I've advised my son to have with his daughter...but not with his sons.

 

[YorkieGal]

I don't care what men say to me as long as it's not crass or disrespectful. I do the same for men.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Should men purposefully and willfully change they way they speak when speaking to women and vice versa? Or should they be themselves and speak as they normally would to any human.
I'm not talking about topical stuff. Obviously in general men and women do have different interests, jsut sit in on conversations between males only and conversations between females only. And definitely not talking about morality. Our words should always be seasoned with grace and we should have wholesome talk exit our mouths. I'm meaning more the delivery. Should men adjust their delivery for women and vice versa?

An example that ive heard of is men should tone down the logical approach to some topics, be less opinionated, less rational and even speak with softer tones (though im unsure what this means for a guy who has a very naturally rough tone lol), and the like.

Im unsure what women "should" do as i only see the recommendation for men to "tone down the logic stuff". Not a lot of suggestion for women

Is this type of thinking have any basis, what are you thoughts? I often hear this in conversation especially around husbands and wives. Sons and mothers,
Father's and daughters.

I also find the request for men to "tone down the logic" rather disrespectful towards women. Even when the request is coming from a women!

My vote is no, we should talk to each other however we talk to humans in general and our concern should be on the content of what we are saying, the heart intention of what we say and the wholesomeness of the topic.

Thoughts?

Men should not be logical, opinionated or rational? I am pretty sure women would want men to possess these qualities when speaking to them. I am certain the information you have been given is not accurate.
Be blessed.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Should men purposefully and willfully change they way they speak when speaking to women and vice versa? Or should they be themselves and speak as they normally would to any human.
I'm not talking about topical stuff. Obviously in general men and women do have different interests, jsut sit in on conversations between males only and conversations between females only. And definitely not talking about morality. Our words should always be seasoned with grace and we should have wholesome talk exit our mouths. I'm meaning more the delivery. Should men adjust their delivery for women and vice versa?

An example that ive heard of is men should tone down the logical approach to some topics, be less opinionated, less rational and even speak with softer tones (though im unsure what this means for a guy who has a very naturally rough tone lol), and the like.

Im unsure what women "should" do as i only see the recommendation for men to "tone down the logic stuff". Not a lot of suggestion for women

Is this type of thinking have any basis, what are you thoughts? I often hear this in conversation especially around husbands and wives. Sons and mothers,
Father's and daughters.

I also find the request for men to "tone down the logic" rather disrespectful towards women. Even when the request is coming from a women!

My vote is no, we should talk to each other however we talk to humans in general and our concern should be on the content of what we are saying, the heart intention of what we say and the wholesomeness of the topic.

Thoughts?

My thoughts? Most of this depends on just how central having Emotional Intelligence is to any one particular relationship. It also depends on just how much Christianity you want to be in that central core as well.

If you don't value either Emotional Intelligence or Christianity as contextualizing forces in a relationship, then by all means, "be your own man!!"

 

[PloverWing]

Right so in one example i remember it was a discussion about economics and a woman got very angry because we had suggested that due to economic reasons which we had gotten into earlier, handing out lots of money to people is ultimately going to plunge the country into more recession, debt and overall lack of welfare. She got very triggered, angry, swearing etc at that saying that you cant be logical about it etc

Getting angry in political discussions is something that happens to people of all genders.

I'd say that she misspoke when she said "you can't be logical about it". If she was angry at that point, she may not have been choosing her words carefully. Maybe she meant to say something like "unfeeling" or "uncaring". Your psychology hat thoughts are good. If she understood you to say that we shouldn't care deeply about the needs of the poor, then that might well call up some emotions. If she or someone she loves has been a recipient of government aid, then the issue might have been especially personal.

I don't think this incident is about women vs. men. I hear it more as an observation that politics and economics can call forth heated emotions in people, and sometimes we need to take a breath and walk away when the conversation gets too emotionally difficult.

 

[Chesterton]

"Tone down the logic stuff"...oh man that cracked me up! Many is the time I've wanted to ask a woman if we could "tone down the emotion stuff", but I was logical enough to expect that that request wouldn't be well received.

 

[PloverWing]

Many is the time I've wanted to ask a woman if we could "tone down the emotion stuff", but I was logical enough to expect that that request wouldn't be well received.

Many is the time I've wanted to ask the men in my life the same thing.

 

[public hermit]

Should men purposefully and willfully change they way they speak when speaking to women and vice versa? Or should they be themselves and speak as they normally would to any human.
I'm not talking about topical stuff. Obviously in general men and women do have different interests, jsut sit in on conversations between males only and conversations between females only. And definitely not talking about morality. Our words should always be seasoned with grace and we should have wholesome talk exit our mouths. I'm meaning more the delivery. Should men adjust their delivery for women and vice versa?

An example that ive heard of is men should tone down the logical approach to some topics, be less opinionated, less rational and even speak with softer tones (though im unsure what this means for a guy who has a very naturally rough tone lol), and the like.

Im unsure what women "should" do as i only see the recommendation for men to "tone down the logic stuff". Not a lot of suggestion for women

Is this type of thinking have any basis, what are you thoughts? I often hear this in conversation especially around husbands and wives. Sons and mothers,
Father's and daughters.

I also find the request for men to "tone down the logic" rather disrespectful towards women. Even when the request is coming from a women!

My vote is no, we should talk to each other however we talk to humans in general and our concern should be on the content of what we are saying, the heart intention of what we say and the wholesomeness of the topic.

Thoughts?

I also vote no. My two closest friends are women. We've been friends for years, and I'm hardly different with them than I am on here. Not only does that mean they're saints for putting up with me, but gender doesn't matter.

Besides, there are brilliant women logicians and philosophers. Y'all need to crawl out the hole and see the beautiful humanity. Elizabeth Jackson, for instance, is a brilliant philosopher that every Christian should be reading and trying to understand in terms of faith, belief, and credence. Tone down the logical? Please.

Elizabeth Jackson

Toronto Metropolitan University - Cited by 471 - Epistemology - Philosophy of Religion

scholar.google.com

 

[JimR-OCDS]

When I grew up, I was taught to speak respectfully around girls and adults in general.

Boys talked differently when with each other and say things they would never say
in mixed company.

Trump violated this with the recording that revealed what he said to Bush.

Of course the difference was that he was a 70 year old man who should've matured
by then. He did not.

 

[LennyChataeu]

Should men purposefully and willfully change they way they speak when speaking to women and vice versa? Or should they be themselves and speak as they normally would to any human.
I'm not talking about topical stuff. Obviously in general men and women do have different interests, jsut sit in on conversations between males only and conversations between females only. And definitely not talking about morality. Our words should always be seasoned with grace and we should have wholesome talk exit our mouths. I'm meaning more the delivery. Should men adjust their delivery for women and vice versa?

An example that ive heard of is men should tone down the logical approach to some topics, be less opinionated, less rational and even speak with softer tones (though im unsure what this means for a guy who has a very naturally rough tone lol), and the like.

Im unsure what women "should" do as i only see the recommendation for men to "tone down the logic stuff". Not a lot of suggestion for women

Is this type of thinking have any basis, what are you thoughts? I often hear this in conversation especially around husbands and wives. Sons and mothers,
Father's and daughters.

I also find the request for men to "tone down the logic" rather disrespectful towards women. Even when the request is coming from a women!

My vote is no, we should talk to each other however we talk to humans in general and our concern should be on the content of what we are saying, the heart intention of what we say and the wholesomeness of the topic.

Thoughts?

"Adjusting conversation" to a specific audience happens all the time (must happen), even within a group of men. An academically inlined audience of men vs rough carpenters vs industry leaders vs politicians need vastly different approaches to a delivery of an argument or proposition. So too do men, women and children. Of course you ought to adapt your conversation.

 

[Tropical Wilds]

Should men purposefully and willfully change they way they speak when speaking to women and vice versa? Or should they be themselves and speak as they normally would to any human.
I'm not talking about topical stuff. Obviously in general men and women do have different interests, jsut sit in on conversations between males only and conversations between females only. And definitely not talking about morality. Our words should always be seasoned with grace and we should have wholesome talk exit our mouths. I'm meaning more the delivery. Should men adjust their delivery for women and vice versa?

An example that ive heard of is men should tone down the logical approach to some topics, be less opinionated, less rational and even speak with softer tones (though im unsure what this means for a guy who has a very naturally rough tone lol), and the like.

Im unsure what women "should" do as i only see the recommendation for men to "tone down the logic stuff". Not a lot of suggestion for women

Is this type of thinking have any basis, what are you thoughts? I often hear this in conversation especially around husbands and wives. Sons and mothers,
Father's and daughters.

I also find the request for men to "tone down the logic" rather disrespectful towards women. Even when the request is coming from a women!

My vote is no, we should talk to each other however we talk to humans in general and our concern should be on the content of what we are saying, the heart intention of what we say and the wholesomeness of the topic.

Thoughts?

My thought is that nobody is telling men to be less logical and rational when speaking to a woman, and if they are, the person who’s saying to do so is an idiot who’s not socially aware enough to be giving advice to anybody.

As for if we should adjust how we speak to people based on who they are and the scenario they find themselves in, of course they should. If you talk to your boss, your mother, your partner, a client, and a stranger with the same tone, inflection, verbiage, and emotion, then you’re not very socially aware either. You should be constantly assessing, mentally saying “I’m talking to you more professionally because you’re a coworker who’s asking me a work question,” or “I’m talking to you with affection and compassion because you’re my partner and in need of support,” or “I’m talking to you efficiently and clearly because you’re a stranger and our interaction is brief.”

If your deciding you are going to talk to all segments of society the same way… Like you talk to all women with less logic or all servers like they could be your next wife or all people in the service industry with small words or all old people loudly and slowly… Then you are the problem because you’re an inept communicator.

 

[stevevw]

Should men purposefully and willfully change they way they speak when speaking to women and vice versa? Or should they be themselves and speak as they normally would to any human.
I'm not talking about topical stuff. Obviously in general men and women do have different interests, jsut sit in on conversations between males only and conversations between females only. And definitely not talking about morality. Our words should always be seasoned with grace and we should have wholesome talk exit our mouths. I'm meaning more the delivery. Should men adjust their delivery for women and vice versa?

An example that ive heard of is men should tone down the logical approach to some topics, be less opinionated, less rational and even speak with softer tones (though im unsure what this means for a guy who has a very naturally rough tone lol), and the like.

Im unsure what women "should" do as i only see the recommendation for men to "tone down the logic stuff". Not a lot of suggestion for women

Is this type of thinking have any basis, what are you thoughts? I often hear this in conversation especially around husbands and wives. Sons and mothers,
Father's and daughters.

I also find the request for men to "tone down the logic" rather disrespectful towards women. Even when the request is coming from a women!

My vote is no, we should talk to each other however we talk to humans in general and our concern should be on the content of what we are saying, the heart intention of what we say and the wholesomeness of the topic.

Thoughts?

I agree we should just be ourselves and I think gender doesn't come into that. Being yourself is not male or female, right or wrong, good or bad. I think women respect that as its about being real and open.

Of course as you said we need etiquette and each culture will have norms which people mostly follow and acting outside these can be grating or ant social for anyone and not just women.

I also believe there are differences in the genders and deep down women like a male to be male to some extent. Though I think males can learn to be more sensitive but because females are more emotional and males are more things and logically orrientated that is part of the attraction of the opposite.

So long as males are kind and respectful we should act naturally being ourselves which includes our maleness or femaleness.

 

[zippy2006]

i only see the recommendation for men

In one of his recent standup routines Jerry Seinfeld has a bit about his wife complaining about "his tone," and it's rather funny, true, and on point (there are various YouTube clips of him giving the same bit over the years).

I think women are less logical and more emotional, and those who do not accept this reality will pay the price. The difference is something like governance vs. nurture. Furthermore, women tend to be more advanced interpersonal communicators, and they place a lot of value in tone, delivery, empathy, etc. Exceptions only prove the rule. This sexual difference surely needs to be accounted for when speaking with the opposite sex.