Adhd

[Leanna]

First let me say that you can use ADD or ADHD interchangably, I am talking about BOTH in this post and for those don't know, its Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder.

Also please do not be offended, I am just exploring this issue...

Okay so here's the deal. I was talking to a friend of mine the other day and ADHD came up. She thinks, and I hope I get this right, that ADHD is not a medical condition but a behavioral issue and maybe a spiritual battle.

I've thought similar thoughts, and here's why this is important to me. My son's biological father(which I will refer to as G from now on for convenience) has been diagnosed with ADHD and has been on Adderall for years. I read somewhere that there is a 25% chance that a child of a parent with ADHD will have ADHD also. So then the question is.... is it a biologically inerhited trait, or are parents who are ADHD just more likely to accept that their kids are also?

Are there chemicals that are actually different in these children? Is that proven, and are there sources I can consult?

The reason why I have been thinking for several years now that it might be a behavioral issue is because of what I have seen with my G's family. They had no discipline basically growing up, in fact, his preschool teacher asked his mom if G had any boundaries at home because he was so off-the-walls. If G got in trouble he was a very intelligent child and would convince his parents that he had learned his lesson and would get out of grounding or punishment. Supposedly G's brother and sister and mother may also have ADD/ADHD but they have not been diagnosed I don't think. Even though it seems wide spread in the family, I just wonder if they had been more strict on the kids and teaching them how to behave and when maybe they would have been oaky. It is normal for young boys especially to be hyperactive but that doesn't mean that they can't be taught how to behave.

I have had doubts for years as to whether G himself was actually ADHD if it is a medical condition because I have SEEN him concentrate for hours on one thing (we worked together). Other evidences also but I won't bore you with details.

So.... if it is a behavioral issue then I feel more confident(but not completely! scary!) that I can prevent David (son) from having these issues....

Thoughts?

 

[BeanMak]

I think that discipline and boundaries are especially important for kids and adults with ADD, but a lack of this is not the cause. I have attended medical conferences on the subject and there are specific criteria for diagnosis. Here is some good information that matches what I learned at the conferences

WHAT THE RESEARCH SHOWS ABOUT AD/HD:

ADHD is NOT caused by poor parenting, family problems, poor teachers or schools, too much TV, food allergies, or excess sugar. One early theory was that attention disorders were caused by minor head injuries or damage to the brain, and thus for many years ADHD was called "minimal brain damage" or "minimal brain dysfunction." The vast majority of people with ADHD have no history of head injury or evidence of brain damage, however. Another theory, which is still heard in the media, is that refined sugar and food additives make children hyperactive and inattentive. Scientists at the National Institutes of Health (NIH) concluded that this may apply to only about 5 percent of children with ADHD, mostly either very young children or children with food allergies.

ADHD IS very likely caused by biological factors which influence neurotransmitter activity in certain parts of the brain, and which have a strong genetic basis. Studies at NIMH using a PET (positron emission tomography) scanner to observe the brain at work have shown a link between a person's ability to pay continued attention and the level of activity in the brain. Specifically researchers measured the level of glucose used by the areas of the brain that inhibit impulses and control attention. In people with AD/HD, the brain areas that control attention used less glucose, indicating that they were less active. It appears from this research that a lower level of activity in some parts of the brain may cause inattention and other AD/HD symptoms.

There is a great deal of evidence that AD/HD runs in families, which is suggestive of genetic factors. If one person in a family is diagnosed with AD/HD, there is a 25% to 35% probability that any other family member also has AD/HD, compared to a 4% to 6% probability for someone in the general population.

http://www.add.org/articles/factsheet.html
and
http://pn.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/39/1/26http://brain scans reveal physiology of adhd/
New high-resolution, three-dimensional maps of the brains of children with attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) indicate significant and specific anatomical differences within areas of the brain thought to control attentional and inhibitory control systems, compared with brain scans of children without ADHD.
Psychiatric News January 2, 2004
Volume 39 Number 1
© 2004 American Psychiatric Association
p. 26

 

[Christdefinesme]

I am no expert, but have known and been close with, worked alongside,
etc. many families with adhd kids, in ministry. Also had 3 cousins diagnosed years and years back, and my husband has a neice who was diagnosed a while back. As far as I've learned and observed, it's a medical condition, and very real. Of course, I am sure just like any other disorder, there are children who are misdiagnosed. But, these children really cannot help that they can't pay attention at times, it has to do with the way the brain fires and misfires info. Caffeine actually settles a person with adhd, and helps them focus, which is opposite the effect it has on most others. (Did G drink lots of caffiene when you worked together?) I have watched different parents deal differently with their kids with adhd, some get them on meds, some do "whole foods - no dyes" diets, some do nothing, etc. Another note, most people with adhd are extremely intelligent, one of the reasons seems to be that their brains work so quickly, etc. So, this info I'm giving you is all from observation, being close to kids, and picking up info their teachers, parents, etc. have said in meetings, or in conversations with me. So, this is all from memory and I am no expert nor have I researched this. So, hope it helps, but i bet you want some more solid info than I've given. Take care, and I highly recommend the book "Bringing up Boys" by Dr. Dobson, he gave me such wonderful understanding of boys and men through that book! It's a wonderful read. It helped me when I was teaching "hyper" 7th graders and it helps me with my "hyper" boys that the Good Lord has blessed me with.
Good luck.

 

[Linnis]

Be careful with the ADHD/ADD label. The second day my nephew was in first grade the teacher said he had ADD and needed medication to "calm him down and make him listen". I asked that teacher where she got her medical degree from to make a statement about a kid she's only known for 10 hours.

I think many kids are born being very active kids. They can be taught how to act and how not to act in a situation. My nephew now knows when he can and cannot be active and loud. I just have to make sure to give him time and place for him to do it.

I do not have any medical education but I think a lot of the time people are too quick to label kids.

I think your son will turn out fine. You seem like a good parent to me and I think most kids can be taught what's what and have no problems.

 

[Leanna]

christdefinesme, I have read Bringing Up Boys.

BeanMack (or anyone), what do you think about drugs in these situations??

My problem with the drug thing is that it seems there must be a better way to get ADHD kids to control their impulses, learn self control and motivate themself. G, for example, is almost 22 and sets his alarm to wake up take Adderall and goes back to sleep until the drug wakes him up later... if he wakes up. He has a big problem getting out of bed. The drug seems just like a crutch.

I just hope that David doesn't have these problems, but I've heard you can't tell until they are at least 5....

 

[Leanna]

I read the links and now I have more to say... Know that none of it is an attack but I am seeking some real answers

WHAT THE RESEARCH SHOWS ABOUT AD/HD:

ADHD is NOT caused by poor parenting, family problems, poor teachers or schools, too much TV, food allergies, or excess sugar.

Just because they think its NOT doesn't make it fact.... what evidences do they provide that it isn't undisciplined parenting methods?

ADHD IS very likely caused by biological factors which influence neurotransmitter activity in certain parts of the brain, and which have a strong genetic basis. Studies at NIMH using a PET (positron emission tomography) scanner to observe the brain at work have shown a link between a person's ability to pay continued attention and the level of activity in the brain. Specifically researchers measured the level of glucose used by the areas of the brain that inhibit impulses and control attention. In people with AD/HD, the brain areas that control attention used less glucose, indicating that they were less active. It appears from this research that a lower level of activity in some parts of the brain may cause inattention and other AD/HD symptoms.

Interesting but doesn't give number of subjects/people tested and exact information .... :o

There is a great deal of evidence that AD/HD runs in families, which is suggestive of genetic factors. If one person in a family is diagnosed with AD/HD, there is a 25% to 35% probability that any other family member also has AD/HD, compared to a 4% to 6% probability for someone in the general population.

See what I mean? I'm scared for my little one! May God grant grace if it is biological.... but as I said before we still can't be sure the family member isn't diagnosed just because that family is more willing to accept being diagnosed. I hope I explain that right.

http://www.add.org/articles/factsheet.html
and
http://pn.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/39/1/26
New high-resolution, three-dimensional maps of the brains of children with attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) indicate significant and specific anatomical differences within areas of the brain thought to control attentional and inhibitory control systems, compared with brain scans of children without ADHD.

The second link doesn't work. ...

 

[Leanna]

Okay well I did some more reading and I ran across a long description of what it is like to have ADD/ADHD. Allow me to share some:

"In other ways it's like being super-charged all the time. You get one idea and you have to act on it, and then, what do you know, but you've got another idea before you've finished up with the first one, and so you go for that one, but of course a third idea intercepts the second, and you just have to follow that one, and pretty soon people are calling you disorganized and impulsive and all sorts of impolite words that miss the point completely. Because you're trying really hard. It's just that you have all these invisible vectors pulling you this way and that which makes it really hard to stay on task.

Plus which, you're spilling over all the time. You're drumming your fingers, tapping your feet, humming a song, whistling, looking here, looking there, scratching, stretching, doodling, and people think you're not paying attention or that you're not interested, but all you're doing is spilling over so that you can pay attention. I can pay a lot better attention when I'm taking a walk or listening to music or even when I'm in a crowded, noisy room than when I'm still and surrounded by silence. God save me from the reading rooms. Have you ever been into the one in Widener Library? The only thing that saves it is that so many of the people who use it have ADD that there's a constant soothing bustle. " http://www.add.org/articles/whats_it_like.html

I think that convinced me it does exist medically!!! That is G .... he is selectively brilliant. Sitting in a meeting with him would be just like that... drumming fingers and twitching! And he would be completely focused on one intense idea, something like Quantum Theory and before he was done would switch to something else like Einstein's Theory of Relativity and it was difficult keeping up.... wow. I am a believer after reading these paragraphs plus the others on that site.

However, I still believe that with structure and discipline he could have done a lot better to compensate and deal with it.

 

[Entertaining_Angels]

Nope, don't agree but ADD and ADHD runs in my family and is seen in several generations. I have ADD. My brother has ADHD but really his problems were during his childhood. I cannot even tell you how many of my uncles, aunts, cousins, etc... have it. Personally, I believe the fact that my mom's smoking during her pregnancy with my brother made it much worse and it was really bad when he was a child. He is so much calmer now as an adult and is a computer programmer. Nobody in my family used medications. Diet, when applied properly can really change things for many people affected.

I can tell you, I firmly believe people with ADD/ADHD do tend to be smarter and if you evaluate the members of MENSA, you'll may (or may not be) surprised to see this is pretty prevalent

 

[Princessperky]

Leanna, doesn't that sound like a discription of a toddlers feelings? supposing we could get them to express them? Bouncing from thing to thing and really trying hard to be good but check that out over there!

I think it is impossible to take genetics or environment out of the equation, some children are born with more empathy than others, some learn lots at home, the final amount in an adult may be the same, but environment plays a large part after birth.

DD is VERY empathic, DS is not, I didn't do anything different, it is just the way they are. ('I don want him to get sick' while reading DR seuss ABC, "Silly Sammy sipped six sodas and got got sick sick sick" - DS could count the sodas, knew the letter S said /s/ never cared about Sammy.)

Same with ADD tendancies, DS is pretty typical ADD, course he is also 3 . I will use many methods of teaching to help him learn to focus, I had to learn, he has to learn. Blaming genetics is only a starting point, then work form there to help kids learn to be competant adults. With the right training almost all children can become focused adults. Medication may be neccessary at some point, but IMO the goal should be to train the brain, unfortunatly it doesn't come with an instruction book .

I worked with a child with ADD when I taught (disclaimer no 4 year degree) with focus and reminders to focus, he could and did. Over the course of a year so long as the situations were ones he was used to (trained to deal with) forgetting the meds was no big deal. New situations he often had some training to fall back on, but not enough yet. He would with proper help learn to translate all his skills of focus to all situations he needed them for.

The same argument for genetics can be used with Bipolar (and most brain issues) I have it, my mother has it. I am not on medication though yes you can prove with science that at one time I had a 'chemical imbalence' the chemicals are created and ordered by my brain, and balancing them was also orderd by my brain. Your brain does the same thing, but (assuming you have no medical condition) you don't think about balancing them, you don't have to watch to close to make sure you don't go to 'high' or 'low'. But just as in the case of diabeties, sometimes the brain will cannot make the right balance, so mnedication may be neccessary (like an insulin shot) but IMO not in all cases, and even some of the 'milder' forms of diabeties or sugar imbalances can be treated with diet, (only if your body does still make some insulin).

In the womb the baby is working out all sorts of neural connections, if some misfire or don't get straightned out right you might have a kid with more ADD tendancies than the average toddler, (or one who without help will not learn to focus) if others misfire you might have aspergers or full autism. I dunno the medical science behind what will hurt the neural connections the most, but smoking and drugs are prolly not good, niether though is having the genes for lousy connections.

Intelegence wise, from what I has seen it does seem to be proportional to chemical issues (add or bipolar, or whatever), but not always (failed in my case, wheres my brain!), I sortof wonder if maybe just what you said about G, he was smart enough to talk the parents out of discipline, so he didn't get any help learning focus or bahavior. Which is why no matter how cute or brilliant DS is when talking I still maintain the origional punishment (occasionally to DHs dismay, but a time out wont hurt him, getting labeled as ADD will.)

BTW sorry so long, but IMO the same thing can be said for dislexia, I have it, and I learned to cope (just please forgive I cannot seem to get form and from right!) Since it was noticed by mom and helped with little strategies (does it make sense for God to get a bone or the dog?) and such I never knew I had a label I just learned a few tricks to straighten things out (no a whopper meal doesn't cost 7.49, it was 4.79) Now I had a mild form, but labeling can only help if it is to bring the right strategies to bear, not if it is to excuse the behavior. DS is not quite two so I expect ot have to help her transition form play to going home, not that I allow her to throw a temper-tanrtum, just that I allow extra prep, same with ADD and Dislexia and Bipolar and low blood sugar and diabetics and so on, not allowed to stop 'behaving' just allowed to find the right strategies to meet the needs.

 

[Leanna]

I can tell you, I firmly believe people with ADD/ADHD do tend to be smarter and if you evaluate the members of MENSA, you'll may (or may not be) surprised to see this is pretty prevalent

This would make sense to me since G is a very smart person especially in math and science.

 

[Leanna]

Leanna, doesn't that sound like a discription of a toddlers feelings? supposing we could get them to express them? Bouncing from thing to thing and really trying hard to be good but check that out over there!

Yes but he is an adult and it is seriously still like that.... lots of energy in this person but when he focuses on something very brilliant. It tended to be annoying.

I think it is impossible to take genetics or environment out of the equation, some children are born with more empathy than others, some learn lots at home, the final amount in an adult may be the same, but environment plays a large part after birth.

I'll hope you're right because I plan on raising David with definite boundaries.... so hopefully that will help him even if he has tendencies for ADHD.

Same with ADD tendancies, DS is pretty typical ADD, course he is also 3 . I will use many methods of teaching to help him learn to focus, I had to learn, he has to learn.

He's 3! That's not ADD, that's all young toddlers. I get small windows of focus to teach David something.

Intelegence wise, from what I has seen it does seem to be proportional to chemical issues (add or bipolar, or whatever), but not always (failed in my case, wheres my brain!), I sortof wonder if maybe just what you said about G, he was smart enough to talk the parents out of discipline, so he didn't get any help learning focus or bahavior. Which is why no matter how cute or brilliant DS is when talking I still maintain the origional punishment (occasionally to DHs dismay, but a time out wont hurt him, getting labeled as ADD will.)

Right, I agree with your sentiments in this post. I think he could have done better had his parents been more strict. He would always talk himself out of punishment. In my opinion, whether you "learn your lesson" or not, there are always consequences for your actions in real life, so there should be in parenting land too. You learned your lesson about not studying and getting a D in a class? Good. You still got a D.

One time he walked 2 miles into the underground sewers out of curiosity and then when he got bored and tired he knocked on some kind of ground grate and someone called the police and they had to get someone to pull him out of the sewers. From what I understand there was no real punishment for this? As a parent, I would be TICKED.

 

[Jengi]

I teach 1st and 2nd grade. Over the years, I have taught many children with ADD. I think it is a real medical condition. But, I also think that it is influnced by parenting, diet, etc. I think people are way to quick to accept a diagnosis of ADD and jump on the medication bandwagon. I definatly have seen cases where medication is appropriate, so I am not knocking that, I just think that in some cases that some changes in structure and parenting style can really help as much as meds.

Linnis--the teacher who said your nephew had add within 2 days of meeting him was out of line! Teachers are not qualified to diagnose ADD, only to collect info for doctors. To suggest meds is IMO unethical. I know I have thought it many times about some kids, but I would never say it!!!

 

[Entertaining_Angels]

I teach 1st and 2nd grade. Over the years, I have taught many children with ADD. I think it is a real medical condition. But, I also think that it is influnced by parenting, diet, etc. I think people are way to quick to accept a diagnosis of ADD and jump on the medication bandwagon. I definatly have seen cases where medication is appropriate, so I am not knocking that, I just think that in some cases that some changes in structure and parenting style can really help as much as meds.

Linnis--the teacher who said your nephew had add within 2 days of meeting him was out of line! Teachers are not qualified to diagnose ADD, only to collect info for doctors. To suggest meds is IMO unethical. I know I have thought it many times about some kids, but I would never say it!!!

Jengi, I do so agree with you. With some of my son's issues, I know how difficult a strict diet can be especially one like casein/glutein diet but it is amazing how much it can change a child. Some kids are extreme and truth be told, my brother would have been one of them but my mother really went the diet route with him and it did help a bit. Like many with ADD/ADHD though he did turn to pot when he was older. He's really successful now and in his thirties but I'm not sure he ever gave up smoking it. I hope he did but it really does bring things back into focus for some with this disorder. So, that is something to keep in mind if you have a child with ADD/ADHD, they may be a little more susceptible to marijuana.

 

[Leanna]

Jengi, I agree, but its a lot tougher to say "hey you gotta change your parenting methods and diet" than to give those same people a drug. They don't want to change their method even if it is ineffective. Many parents are just lazy.

 

[Princessperky]

He's 3! That's not ADD, that's all young toddlers. I get small windows of focus to teach David something.

Exactly, all toddlers have it, some learn 'out of it' easily (regardless of parenting) some have trouble with the BEST parenting tecniques.

 

[GrannySmith]

ADHD is very real. especially to those of us who have it. I am almost 50 years old and still struggle with focusing (or hyperfocusing), organization, and impulsivity and that is with medication (Strattera) It has caused me a multitude of problems and sorrows in my life. I still require support from understanding family and friends to "keep everything together" It is incrediable difficult. There are been brain scans that show the differences in the ADHD and "normal" brain. (I believe ADHD is normal)
I commend you for researching the subject. Your child needs your support.

 

[GrannySmith]

Forgot to say how important structure and routine is for ADHD. It is best to function on a set schedule.

 

[DieHappy]

Take EPA and magnesium. Change your brain chemistry to how it was intended instead of french fry fat and no magnesium and you'll get better. No question. Drugs don't solve the problem.

 

[Leanna]

Dude we don't eat french fry fat around here I'm like the diet police.

 

[Entertaining_Angels]

Dude we don't eat french fry fat around here I'm like the diet police.

Us, too.

Funny, just thinking about the vaccine thread. I always tell parents that french fries are more likely to be a cause of autism than vaccines. Think about it, although studies are beginning to indicate that autism actually begins in the womb, when most children begin to exhibit symptoms (my son had just turned one), research will show that a far greater percentage of those kids will have had french fries recently then have had vaccines. If they do end up showing autism begins in the womb, maybe it's mom who had the fries.

My only point with the fries argument is that people mistakenly correlate vaccines with autism because in vaccinated and non-vaccinated populations, the signs of autism really begin to appear at the same stages or ages. Just happens to coincide with the ages we vaccinate. Also happens to coincide with when many western parents begin giving their kids french fries and other junk food.

Just digressing but the comment about french fry fat made me laugh. Didn't mean to merge two threads.