Addressing TrustAndObey's charge

[Eila]

Why would a non-Adventist give a flip about what goes on in our church anyway? Is it any of your business?

Adventism is more than a belief system or a church. It is a culture. My entire family is SDA in belief and culture. They walk, eat, and sleep in the Adventist culture. Should I divorce myself from everything Adventist and lose my family even more than I already have?

 

[RC_NewProtestants]

Tall and I have Adventist friends, too, and relatives. We spent our whole lives in the Adventist Church until recently. We devoted 10 years to ministry in the Adventist Church. We loved our church members, and saying goodbye to them was one of the hardest things we've ever had to do. We have great fondness for the church that has played such a large role in our lives. We have made the decision not be members of it anymore because we don't agree with some of its teachings, but we can't simply cast off our Adventism and forget about it even though it seems to want to write us off as "apostates" who are unworthy even to associate with. We have good reasons to care what goes on in the Adventist Church.

Then there are some of the traditionals (though certainly not all here) who would rather send tall and sophia off and wash their hands of them. That is the tragedy of the fundamentalist mindset. Some of them would rather break fellowship then even discuss the issues. And that is never what this forum was intended for.

As many of us expected the intolerant few are once again trying to dictate their opinions as if they are facts and destroy Christian relationships. Well that is fine for your traditional sub-forum and even your so called study sub-forum but it is a violation of the Progressive sub-forum and the discussion and debate sub-forum policies.

If we had moderators of some integrity this kind of nonsense would be dealt with. Just a simple pink notice would probably be all that is needed stating the rules which we agreed upon as a group. Just something to stop the jingoists from making their accusations.

 

[Sophia7]

Then there are some of the traditionals (though certainly not all here) who would rather send tall and sophia off and wash their hands of them. That is the tragedy of the fundamentalist mindset. Some of them would rather break fellowship then even discuss the issues. And that is never what this forum was intended for.

As many of us expected the intolerant few are once again trying to dictate their opinions as if they are facts and destroy Christian relationships. Well that is fine for your traditional sub-forum and even your so called study sub-forum but it is a violation of the Progressive sub-forum and the discussion and debate sub-forum policies.

If we had moderators of some integrity this kind of nonsense would be dealt with. Just a simple pink notice would probably be all that is needed stating the rules which we agreed upon as a group. Just something to stop the jingoists from making their accusations.

You could report them if you want, but with the blatant intolerance and condemnation that some people exhibit, they bear witness against themselves far better than any moderator actions could.

 

[freeindeed2]

Technically speaking Honor was first.

I guess they can predict our actions and we can predict theirs.

Why? Because there has been a steady stream out of the church for years.

Yes, many (not all) of those who leave wind up discarding a number of doctrines. I did not know if I would be one or not. So I just said I was going to go through all of them. I have said that more than once.

Many (not all) of those who stay question their salvation, say they are of the devil, say they were led astray, say it was just for comfort or acceptance or make some other claim that they cannot back up that some how comforts them over the whole issue.

Now, the real question of course is WHY so many reject the doctrines.

Because they are "closed minded?" as some have alleged? Then why would they change all they believed for years? That does not seem to be a sign of close-mindedness.

Because they just want to be normal? Then why did they stay for years?

Because they want to be comfortable? I was comfortable before an making about a third more per year than I will be now from the way it looks, and had the privilege of serving in full time ministry.

Because they are apostates and of Satan and don't love God? Then why go to any church?

Think what you like. I can only do what I feel I must based on what I find in Scripture.

Tall, the real reason is because they want to be free to kill, steal, have affairs, and covet! Didn't you know that!? That's what some here accuse the Holy Spirit of leading them to do after leaving the SDA church (even though spiritual growth is abundantly evident).

Now the good news is that the church proper has actually treated me very kindly. They never questioned my salvation, though they certainly did not agree with my views. They wished I would reconsider and thought I was mistaken, but they said that I was still their brother and they prayed for me. They were kind enough to give us time to decide and accepted our decision when it was given. The administrators I have worked for have been nothing but top notch from the beginning, both before and after my questions. So as a church you can be proud of that.

That is awesome! I wish that were the case for everyone who has left for the same reasons.

My church members were also very kind, though it was a shock to them too, and I regret that had to happen.

But family, and folks on here have their views, and they are welcome to them. We will all give account to the One who will judge the living and dead. So I do not have to answer to them but only to Him. And I already have a whole life of sin that condemns me there, but Christ is sufficient. God can judge my motives in this decision.

Christ is the ONLY One who is sufficient. By believing in Jesus we have already passed from death to life. There is no judgment. There is no condemnation. Christ is our everything.

In Christ alone...

 

[freeindeed2]

Why would a non-Adventist give a flip about what goes on in our church anyway? Is it any of your business?

Maybe because they care about the people, not the organization. They know the true Gospel of Jesus Christ and recognize the additions to it and subtractions from it that they're SDA friends and family believe in. Maybe they want their SDA friends and family to see Jesus (only) without all the denomination/sectarian adornment added to Him. It's completely their business.

And that's quite a question coming from someone who represents a church whose main evangelistic efforts in the U.S. is to get Christians out of their churches and in to the SDA church (yeah, I've been to TOO many pastors meetings and listened to Mark Finley TOO much, and even read his book on just HOW to do it!)! Using your own argument/question, why would YOU care what goes on in all those other churches? Is it really any of YOUR business or concern?

In Christ alone...

 

[honorthesabbath]

People love to wave the "This is the truth sign! Believe it or leave!" Actually Jesus condemned people like that.

I don't recall Jesus doing this--can you post some support texts for your comment?

 

[honorthesabbath]

I hope you're not serious. Why would we go from one group with some unbiblical beliefs that are divergent from mainstream Christianity to another group with even more unbiblical and divergent beliefs?

Sophia--so you really think that MAINSTREAM "Christianity" has truth?

 

[tall73]

Sophia--so you really think that MAINSTREAM "Christianity" has truth?

By your quotation marks you seem to indicate that you don't even consider them Christian.

So much for "come out of her my people".

 

[honorthesabbath]

you mean like you over-react?

Can you show me where I over-reacted to something? And is your comment beneficial?

 

[honorthesabbath]

Maybe because they care about the people, not the organization. They know the true Gospel of Jesus Christ and recognize the additions to it and subtractions from it that they're SDA friends and family believe in. Maybe they want their SDA friends and family to see Jesus (only) without all the denomination/sectarian adornment added to Him. It's completely their business.

And that's quite a question coming from someone who represents a church whose main evangelistic efforts in the U.S. is to get Christians out of their churches and in to the SDA church (yeah, I've been to TOO many pastors meetings and listened to Mark Finley TOO much, and even read his book on just HOW to do it!)! Using your own argument/question, why would YOU care what goes on in all those other churches? Is it really any of YOUR business or concern?

In Christ alone...

I'm talking about formers Free--you know--those people who have rejected the truth and now are trying to get others to deny it too.

 

[honorthesabbath]

By your quotation marks you seem to indicate that you don't even consider them Christian.

So much for "come out of her my people".

Ahh--is THAT your answer to my question? hhmmm

 

[tall73]

Ahh--is THAT your answer to my question? hhmmm

That is my reaction to your question--not the answer to it.

The mainstream churches have Christ. They are Christian. Yes, they have truth.


Now, I want you to be clear. Are you implying that mainstream Christians are not Christian?

 

[freeindeed2]

I'm talking about formers Free--you know--those people who have rejected the truth and now are trying to get others to deny it too.

So was I, but I know for a fact they have not rejected truth (Jesus IS the truth!). In fact, quite the opposite!

Please show me any formers who are trying to get others to reject Jesus Christ. I'd like to address them personally!

 

[moicherie]

Perhaps some Adventists like the delusion of thinking they will be the only ones populating the New Earth.

 

[happywiththelord]

I think there are some delusions going on here for sure!

 

[StormyOne]

Can you show me where I over-reacted to something? And is your comment beneficial?

yes, the comment you just made.... and my comment is as beneficial as yours...

 

[StormyOne]

I think there are some delusions going on here for sure!

and how would you recognized a delusion if you read it?

 

[honorthesabbath]

So was I, but I know for a fact they have not rejected truth (Jesus IS the truth!). In fact, quite the opposite!

Please show me any formers who are trying to get others to reject Jesus Christ. I'd like to address them personally!

Yes--Jesus is truth and so are these....

Ps 119:142 Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and thy law is the truth.
Ps 119:151 Thou art near, O LORD; and all thy commandments are truth.
Joh 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

Did you omit these by mistake?

You see--if someone reject all of the above that the bible claims is truth--then in fact they ARE rejecting Jesus. As HE said....
Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

 

[NightEternal]

I'm talking about formers Free--you know--those people who have rejected the truth and now are trying to get others to deny it too.

Interesting this charge keeps resurfacing time and time and time and time again by both you and Trust, when in actuality it has no basis whatsoever in reality.

I suppose sharing one's views here on this open discussion forum constitutes trying to actively recruit people to drag out of the church? Quite a stretch to be sure. How do you know what the motivation of a poster here is? Can you now read minds and hearts?

Is your belief system really that weak and fragile that you would have to resort to leveling trumped-up charges that arise in your own paranoid imagination?

Now why don't you take a few minutes and have a gander at an actual discussion forum where such a thing is, by thier own free admission, the actual agenda:

http://64.226.233.122/discus/messages/11/11.html?1196703647

 

[freeindeed2]

Yes--Jesus is truth and so are these....

Ps 119:142 Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and thy law is the truth.

Ps 119:151 Thou art near, O LORD; and all thy commandments are truth.

Of course the law was truth. It was the schoolmaster pointing to Christ. But we are no longer under the schoolmaster!

The road signs are true, but they are NOT the destination! Jesus IS!

Joh 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

Let's see...Jesus is the Word...hmmm...

Did you omit these by mistake?

Omit!? They completely played their role in leading humanity to Christ. They were no mistake!

You see--if someone reject all of the above that the bible claims is truth--then in fact they ARE rejecting Jesus. As HE said....

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

John is NOT referring back to the covenant made with Israel which pointed forward to Christ. Going back to the law IS rejecting Christ. Romans 6 and 7 are clear that we cannot be joined/united with both. We die to one to be joined with another (Christ himself!). Which are you joined with?