Addressing some anti-Sabbath arguments- by PaleHorse

[Castaway57]

NOTE. -- It was upon this very point that the Reformation was condemned by the Council of Trent. The Reformers had constantly charged, as here stated, that the Catholic Church had "apostatized from the truth as contained in the written word. "The written word," "The Bible and the Bible only," "Thus saith the Lord," these were their constant watchwords; and "the Scripture, as in the written word, the sole standard of appeal," this was the proclaimed platform of the Reformation and of Protestantism. "The Scripture and tradition." The Bible as interpreted by the Church and according to the unanimous consent of the Fathers," this was the position and claim of the Catholic Church.

Some of my Catholic friends have quoted the following verse to me, in response to this kind of thing said by some Adventists:

1Ti_3:15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

The Bible, they say, tells us that THE CHURCH is the pillar and ground of the truth.

 

[Frenchfrye]

when the first Christians were being persecuted by the Jews they started worshiping on Sunday to put a space between them. Rome disliked the Jews so christians also needed a way to be separate from them that's historically how it happened

 

[David Conklin]

how do yo account for this verse from Hosea

11 I will stop all her celebrations:
her yearly festivals, her New Moons,
her Sabbath days—all her appointed festivals.

Note the context.

 

[David Conklin]

>The Bible, they say, tells us that THE CHURCH is the pillar and ground of the truth.

The church is the body of Christ--not a denomination.

 

[reddogs]

>The Bible, they say, tells us that THE CHURCH is the pillar and ground of the truth.

The church is the body of Christ--not a denomination.

Yes, that is my understanding also.

 

[Castaway57]

Yes, that is my understanding also.

It is both.

 

[Castaway57]

>The Bible, they say, tells us that THE CHURCH is the pillar and ground of the truth.

The church is the body of Christ--not a denomination.

The church is a combination of denominations, and other groups/individuals. A correct view of Bible prophecy reveals this clearly

 

[reddogs]

I found the original Palehorse posting, here it is:
Probably the #1 most questioned part of the SDA doctrine is the one that is most apparent; why do we keep the 7th day Sabbath (from Friday sundown to Saturday sundown) instead of Sunday as most Protestant churches do? Well, that is what this essay is for; to answer that very question.

In this series of posts I hope to cover the SDA answers to the various arguments posed against Sabbath keeping. This thread is NOT intended to be a "debate" thread; I just wanted to provided the quick answers to those who question our doctrine of seventh-day Sabbath keeping.

Argument #1:
"The Sabbath was for the Jews.¨
o It is not a Jewish institution, for it was made about 2,300 years before Jews existed, right at creation.Genesis 2:2-3. To say the Sabbath is just for Jews is to say that marriage is just for the Jews as well since both the Sabbath and marriage were given to Adam and Eve in the beginning.
o The Bible never calls it the Jewish Sabbath, but always "the Sabbath of the Lord thy God" or "my Sabbath¨ (meaning it is God's Sabbath).
o Mark 2:27 - And he said unto them, The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath:
(Made for who? MAN! That is a silly way to spell Jew or Israelite.) “Man” here means mankind.
o God has pronounced a special blessing on all the Gentiles who will keep it.Isaiah 56:6,7

Argument #2:
"That was the old covenant - Jesus did away with the Sabbath and all the other ceremonial laws.”
o When the Son of God came, He kept the seventh day all His life.Luke 4:16 "And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and stood up for to read.¨ Thus Jesus followed His Father's example at creation. Shall we not be safe in following the example of both the Father and the Son?
o The Ten Commandments were not part of Moses’ ceremonial law as Exodus 19, 20, and 31 clearly show. Also, there are many Bible references that show there was a distinguishment made between the Commandments and that of Moses’ book of the law.
o Instead of abolishing the Sabbath, Jesus carefully taught how it should be observed.Matthew 12:1-13
o Jesus is also known as the Lord of the Sabbath.Matthew 12:8. Why be Lord of something you were going to abolish?
o Christ instructed His apostles that the Sabbath should be prayerfully regarded forty years after His resurrection.Matthew 24:20. When one reads all of Matt 24 they’ll see that Jesus was warning the disciples of the upcoming destruction of Jerusalem – which occurred about 40 years after His resurrection. Are we to believe that Christ didn’t know when this siege would take place?
o Thirty years after Christ's resurrection, the Holy Spirit expressly calls it "the Sabbath day." Acts 13:14-16.Sounds like the Sabbath was still in effect even then, well after Christ's death.
o The New Testament alone mentions the Sabbath day no less than 84 times - sounds like God is trying to tell us something. And never once is there a change of the Sabbath day to any other nor was it abolished.
o Luke 23:56 - And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment. Jesus' own mother observed the Sabbath AFTER Jesus died. If He had changed or done away with the Sabbath day (having nailed it to the cross), wouldn't His own mother have known it? She was a follower of the Messiah; Mary was certainly a Christian despite her ethnicity, just as Christians all over the world are.

Argument #3:
"God doesn't care what day we observe.¨
o Isa 56:13&14 "If thou turn away thy foot from the Sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the Sabbatha delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words: Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it."
- "THE¨ is defined as "an absolute, genuine article¨. The verse doesn't say "a" Sabbath day - it clearly says "the" Sabbath day; it's very specific.
o Exodus 20:8-11, 31:13-17, "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day, and hallowed it."
- Once God blesses, hallows, and sanctifies something it is that way forever. God doesn't change (Malachi 3:6) nor does His law (Luke 16:17) nor does His Sabbath, nor does His baptism for that matter.(Ephesians 4:5) This verse also specifies a particular definite day; the seventh day, which we call Saturday. It starts at sundown on Friday and ends at sundown on Saturday according to OT reckoning.
o Any time one looks up the Sabbath in the Bible it is always described it as being on the seventh day. (Whenever a description is given, that is.) Never is the first day (Sunday) mentioned in this regard.
o God is very specific on things - He leaves little to be open to interpretation. Examples would include the exact measurements He gave Noah for the building of the ark (Gen 6:15), the Ark of the Covenant and the earthly sanctuary (Exodus 25:10 thru 36:21), precisely what to do with the lambwhen Passover was established (Exodus 12:8), etc. Do you think the wall of Jericho would have toppled if the children of Israel would have marched around it only 6 times, or did it take the full 7 before the blessing was received? Did a certain someone have to wash in the Jordan river once, or twice, or the full 7 times before his blessing of healing come? God is concerned with details; He’s a God of precision; and He says what He means. He said “the” seventh day. I think He does care what day we observe.




Argument #4:
”The apostles broke bread on the first day of the week”.

Acts 20:7 "And upon the first day of the week (yup, that's Sunday), when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight."
o The disciples broke bread every day (see Acts 2:46) - that is not a reason for observing a different day of worship anyway and only shows lack of Biblical scholarship of someone using this argument. Furthermore, the term "breaking bread" here does not mean communion; otherwise the disciples were taking communion every single day. Does Acts 20:7 say that breaking bread constitutes a change to God’s day of rest? Nope.
o Something that most miss is that if you read the story further you'll find that Paul starts out on Sunday morning for his trip; he travels about 30 km and then buys a boat ticket! Now, if Sunday had been any kind of holy day then Paul would not have been traveling nor purchasing anything on that day.

(end part 1)

 

[reddogs]

Argument #5:

Many cite the following Colossians 2:14-16:
Col 2:14-16 "Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the Sabbath days:"
o This verse is referring to the Mosaic Law (some say Sinaic Law or Levitical Law, some say ceremonial law) and this is evident by the inclusion of the "new moon" phrase as well as reference to the meat and drink offerings that would take place (compare to Leviticus 23:37). There are two sets of laws in play here, two types of sabbaths; one was described as being grievous to us (Col.2:14-16), and the 10 Commandments which were not grievous to us (1 John 5:3). How can the same law be grievous and not grievous at the same time? It cannot; clearly there are two sets of laws. Additionally, there isn't a single "ordinance" in the 10 Commandments. See definition of "ordinance" in any dictionary - it discusses festival regulations and the like.
I. DEUT. 31:26 Take this book of the law (Moses' Law), and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee

By comparison Moses' Law was written in a book on paper; God's Law was written with His finger on stone - don't let the symbology there escape you either. Also, the Commandments were put “inside” the ark (Exodus 40:20) not “in the side” (Deut 31:26) of it.
II. Hebrews 4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. 5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest. 6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief: 7 Again, he limiteth (limited to) a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts. 8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. 9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. 10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. 11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

(I’ll touch upon this verse again later in this essay for it is a biggie.)

III. Leviticus 23:37 These are the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, to offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD, a burnt offering, and a meat offering, a sacrifice, and drink offerings, every thing upon his day: 38 Beside(in addition to) the sabbaths of the LORD, and beside your gifts, and beside all your vows, and beside all your freewill offerings, which ye give unto the LORD.

Notice the verse in Leviticus 23:37; the word “beside” means in addition to, these feasts were the sabbaths that were in addition to the weekly seventh-day Sabbath. It is these sabbaths, not the weekly seventh-day Sabbath, that Col 2:14 is talking about – this is verified when one looks at the descriptors of “meat” and “drink” which are in reference to the offerings that would take place under Mosaic Ceremonial Law. So, again we see that the seventh-day Sabbath was different than these ceremonial sabbaths and it was the ceremonial sabbaths that were done away with according to Col. 2-14.

Argument #6:
"Jesus is my rest."
o Jesus is not a "day" nor is He ever symbolically/metaphorically linked to being a “day” in the Bible; He's linked to being "the vine", "the lamb", "the door", "the rock" and many other things but never, not once, a "day". We must stick to the Bible and the Bible only.
o To "rest in Jesus" actually has three meanings; 1) to rest on the Sabbath day (Heb 4:4&9) or 2) to be one of the righteous dead (1 Thess. 4:14) for you are literally resting in Jesus' love and protection. Matthew 11:28 - Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Jesus can absolutely give us 3) spiritual rest, but we cannot "cease from all work" seven days a week. To do so is not holy, it's lazy.

Argument #7:
"Unlike the other 9 commandments, Christ doesn’t repeat the Sabbath commandment in the New Testament. As such, we don’t have to observe it.”

o Do people who say this also look at Hebrews 4:1-11? (*see verse below in Argument #11 or click here for an in-depth study.) The Sabbath commandment is most certainly repeated in the NT both in word as well as example.

o According to the following verse I’d say that Christ had every intention that His Sabbath would still be observed after His death:

Matthew 24:20 - But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

The context of this verse is that Christ was warning the disciples about the destruction of Jerusalem, which occurred in 70 AD at the hands of the Roman army. Christ prophesied that this event would happen and it did (Christ is never wrong). Why would Christ be concerned that people observe the Sabbath day at a time that would have been about 40 years after His death if His death was supposed to abolish it? Simple, He wouldn’t be concerned if that were the case – but since the Sabbath, like all His Commandments last forever, He was very concerned and told them to pray concerning it.

o Also, the Holy Spirit expressly calls it the “Sabbath day” in Acts 13:14. Aren’t the words of the Holy Spirit good enough since the Holy Spirit is the one who now convicts us of our sin?

o Mary, Christ’s mother, observed the Sabbath “according to the commandment” after Christ’s death. (See Luke 23:56) And I don't think anyone would argue that Mary was most certainly Christian.

o In the great Christian council, A.D. 49, in the presence of the apostles and thousands of disciples, James calls it the "sabbath day." (Acts 15:21) Notice, that in all these verses, and many more, Sabbath isn’t referred to as “a” Sabbath, but instead “the” Sabbath day. There is only one weekly Sabbath day and that falls from sundown on Friday to sundown on Saturday.

Argument #8:
"The Holy Spirit descended on the people on the day of Pentecost; and that was a Sunday, so we observe Sunday as Sabbath."
o The Holy Spirit descended on people at other times in the Bible yet that has never constituted a change to God's Sabbath; why would it this time? The Bible never mentions a change to God’s holy day at all in connection with Pentecost. This argument is totally inconsistent with scripture and is the result of improper exegesis, hermeneutics, and apologetics. There is no place in the Bible that says "when Pentecost comes the Sabbath day will be changed to that day" nor is it even inferred.

Argument #9:
"Sunday is the Lord's Day - I observe the Lord's Day."
o "The Lord's Day" is only found in one place in the Bible, Revelation 1:10 - I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,
John was the writer of the book of Revelation, that's why he is known as "John the Revelator". John was a Jew. As such, he knew and followed the seventh-day Sabbath. So, for him to use the phrase "The Lord's Day" would mean, if anything regarding a day of the week, Saturday (from Friday sundown to Saturday sundown to be exact)!
o Also, I recommend reading all of Revelation 1; not one time does it say what day the "Lord's Day" is. To assume it was a Sunday is wild speculation at best; sorry but there isn't any other way to say it. The truth is the "Lord's Day" or "Day of the Lord" has always referred to the day that Christ returns - His second advent. Any lexicon, unbiased concordance, Biblical scholar, or theologian will tell you that.

Argument #10:
"We observe Sunday in honor of the Resurrection."
o I am in no way belittling Christ resurrecting from death, but where is the scriptural authority to change God's holy day in honor of the resurrection? There isn't any scriptural authority for the change.
o How did Jesus tell us to honor His resurrection? With baptism! (Romans 6:4 and Colossians 2:12) So why disregard Christ's instructions or add to them? We have no authority to do such. Jesus' words are the truth - and we all know what happens when you add or take away from the truth (Revelation 22:19).
o Also, Christ specifically told us to take communion in remembrance of Him. (Luke 22:19) He never once said "change My Father's holy day".
o If Sunday observance is to commemorate Christ's resurrection then what is Easter for again? Which is it; Sunday observance or Easter that commemorates Christ’s resurrection? We cannot just make it up as we go along folks; the Bible is our guide.
o I challenge any good Christian to find scripture that says the redemption of our sin is in the resurrection. The Bible always refers to redemption being by, in, or through the BLOOD of Christ. (1 John 1:7 is one of my favorite verses). I will never overlook the importance of Christ rising from the dead, for that shows us that through Christ we will be resurrected as well, but let us be careful that we never overlook the fact that He died for us on a Friday, for that is the reason we even have a chance of salvation.


(end Part 2)

 

[reddogs]

Argument #11:
"Hebrews 4:1-9 says that we should rest as He (Christ) is now, that He died for our sins and that Sabbath is basically suspended until we are on the new earth.“

But they don’t look at the entire statement being made. Let’s look at Hebrews 4:1-11 (if you want to see my in-depth study on Heb 4 click here):

If I may point out, in particular, Heb 4 verse 9 and cite from some other Bible versions:

• WYC Therefore the sabbath is left to the people of God.
• BBE So that there is still a Sabbath-keeping for the people of God.
• ASVThere remaineth therefore a sabbath rest for the people of God.
• DBY There remains then a sabbatism to the people of God.
• ESV So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God,
• NJBThere must still be, therefore, a seventh-day rest reserved for God's people,
• NRSSo then, a sabbath rest still remains for the people of God;
• NIRV So there is still a Sabbath rest for God's people.
• NIVUK There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God;
• NIV There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God;
• HCSB A Sabbath rest remains, therefore, for God's people.
• NET Consequently a Sabbath rest remains for the people of God.
• MRD Therefore it is established, that the people of God are to have a sabbath.

GRT Hebrews 4:9 ara apoleipetai sabbatismos tô laô tou theou

apoleipetai means literally 'left behind' and sabbatismos in Greek literature always, 100% of the time, refers to seventh day sabbath-keeping; but let’s verify that using our lexicons to be sure:

BDAG #6544 σαββατισμός
• σαββατισμός, οῦ, ὁ (σαββατίζω; Plut., Mor. 166a cj.; Just., D. 23, 3) sabbath rest, sabbath observance fig. Hb 4:9(CBarrett, CHDodd Festschr. ’56, 371f [eschat.]). —S. on κατάπαυσις HWeiss, CBQ 58, ’96, 674-89. M-M. TW.

Louw-Nida #6544 σαββατισμός
• σαββατισμός, οῦ, ὁ (σαββατίζω; Plut., Mor. 166a cj.; Just., D. 23, 3) sabbath rest, sabbath observance fig. Hb 4:9(CBarrett, CHDodd Festschr. ’56, 371f [eschat.]). —S. on κατάπαυσις HWeiss, CBQ 58, ’96, 674-89. M-M. TW.

Liddell-Scott #36978 Σαββατισμός, σαββατισμός Σαββα±τισμός, ὁ,
a keeping of days of rest, N.T.

Thayer’s Lexicon #4520
1) a keeping [continuing/enduring] Sabbath

A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament; Arndt and Gingrich
sabbatismoV, pronounced sabbatismos, form: noun
1) Sabbath rest, Sabbath observance

Strong’s Lexicon #4520 σαββατισμός
1) a keeping [continuing] sabbath
*2) the blessed rest from toils and troubles looked for in the age to come by the true worshippers of God and true Christians

*Quick note about the Strong’s Lexicon:
A lexicon’s purpose it is to give the reader the plain meaning of words so that the reader can interpret passages for himself. It is outside of the scope of any proper lexicon to try and give the reader its own interpretation of any given word. As such, I find it improper for the Strong’s Lexicon, in light of all the other respected lexicon’s definitions of sabbatismos, to try and give a second definition that is actually an interpretation rather than a definition. Logic dictates that since sabbatismos is only used once in the entire Bible there should only be one definition.

As stated above, the Bible only has one instance of the word sabbatismos, what this further means is that, unlike most other words in the scriptures, one cannot do a verse-to-verse comparison in order to arrive at its definition. One MUST, in this particular situation, look to other Greek documents that use this word. This is the only way to get an accurate definition. Strangely, sabbatismos is only found in the following ancient Greek texts, most of which are penned by pagan authors:

• Plutarch, “De Superstitions 3 (Moralia 1660)
• Justin Martyr,”Dialogue With Trypho” 23,3
• Epiphanius, “Adversus Haereses” 30,2,2
• “Apostolic Constitutions” 2,36
• Martyrdom of Peter and Paul

Sabbatismos means “seventh-day Sabbath keeping”. The verb form of the word is sabbatizw sabbatizo, which means “to keep the Sabbath” (Arndt and Gingrich, A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament). The Greek English Lexicon of the Septuagint defines sabbatizw sabbatizo as “to keep sabbath, to rest” (Lust, Eynikel, Hauspie).

GRT Hebrews 4:9 ara apoleipetai sabbatismos tô laô tou theou


Apoleipetai means literally 'left behind' and sabbatismos in Greek literature is always, 100% of the time, referring to “seventh day sabbath-keeping”. This further undermines the argument that the Commandments were done away with at the cross but that 9 of the 10 were reinstated. This argument holds no argument when the rules of hermeneutics are applied.

Scripture points out that God established the Sabbath at creation, Jesus observed it the disciples observed it, all the prophets kept it, and according to Isa 66:22-23 we will be observing it in the new earth! Now, logic dictates that we should be observing it now. Let's see those verses in Isaiah:
Isa. 66:22-23 - For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one Sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
Verse 11 talks about "laboring into that rest". Any Sabbatarian will tell you this is referring to preparation day (Mark 15:42, Luke 23:54, Matthew 27:62), the day before Sabbath in which all remaining work needs to be finished so that Sabbath can be focused upon Christ.


Argument #12:
"The Sabbath day has been lost to history due to calendar changes.”

This is incorrect and two small observations show this to be in error.

o First, such an argument makes the gross assumption that at some point in time every Jewish person in the world (all of which keep the seventh-day Sabbath) magically forgot what day Sabbath is on. This assumption flies in the face of common reason. And, just to play devil’s advocate, if this did in fact happen (world-wide Sabbath amnesia) the Jews would still have their documentation to remind them. The Jews have always been meticulous in their record-keeping and thus would have plenty of written information at hand that would set them back on the correct day of the Sabbath.

o Usually a second argument is that of the calendar changes from the Julian (which was in use at the time of Christ) to the Gregorian calendar that we use today some days were lost. But what they fail to realize is that if the calendar changes altered which day the seventh-day is from the time of Christ, then that change would also affect the first-day of the week as well, which would mean that those that observe Sunday due to Pentecost or the resurrection of Christ are also observing an incorrect day. The calendar changes did not affect the weekly cycle at all.

For those wanting more information of the Sabbath this is probably the best website I have found. Please click here.

(end Part 3)

 

[reddogs]

"The above essay was based strictly on the arguments I have personally been party too. It is not meant to be exhaustive in nature. If any other SDAs know of any other arguments that they have heard I encourage them to post them in this thread."

 

[reddogs]

Here is another relevant post by Palehorse on the use of the phrase 'Lords Day':

In reference to the...portion concerning John's mention of the "Lord's Day", I happened upon a few other historical statements that show at the time John wrote those words he couldn't have meant the first day of the week rather than the Sabbath:

"Although almost all assemblies throughout the world celebrate the sacred mysteries on the Sabbath of every week, yet the Christians of Alexandria and at Rome, on account of some ancient tradition, have ceased to do this."
- Socrates Scholasticus, 5th century historian

We must note that this was written in the 5th century - hundreds of years after Paul and the apostles - yet the majority of the Christian churches were still celebrating the weekly Sabbath of Christ. Only the churches found in Rome & Alexandria had ceased - "ceased" is strong implication that even they were honoring the weekly Sabbath prior to the reverting back to worshipping on the 'venerable day of the sun' (the "ancient tradition".

Sozomen, also a 5th century historian, seems to echo Socrates' statement:

"The people of Constantinople, and almost everywhere, assemble together on the Sabbath, as well as on the first day of the week, which custom is never observed in Rome or at Alexandria."
- Sozomen, Ecclesiastical History, Book 7, chap. 19

So, John, writing to the churches in the 1st century, couldn't have been referencing the first day of the week (Sunday) when he mentioned the "Lord's Day" - for the churches of that time had not yet deviated from seventh-day Sabbath worship. We must also not forget that John was a Jew and a student of the scriptures; to him the term "Lord's Day" would only have meant the Sabbath of God for he would have based his knowledge on the OT scriptures (since the NT hadn't been written and canonized yet). What scripture would he have relied on?

Isa 58:13If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, [from] doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking [thine own] words:

So, the phrase "Lord's Day" must have been understood by John to have meant the seventh-day Sabbath based upon simple scriptural exegesis and historical eyewitness.

 

[Gary K]

Some of my Catholic friends have quoted the following verse to me, in response to this kind of thing said by some Adventists: The Bible, they say, tells us that THE CHURCH is the pillar and ground of the truth.

I realize this is an old post, but thought I would answer anyway.

I would point you towards the words of Jesus.

John 14: 6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Matthew 7: 24 ¶Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

Jesus is what? Truth, life, and our foundation of solid stone. He doesn't point us to any purely human construction or organization. He points us to Himself for only He is an unchanging and completely solid foundation upon which we can always trust. Jesus, just like truth, never changes.

 

[Dave-W]

Argument #12:
"The Sabbath day has been lost to history due to calendar changes.”

This is incorrect and two small observations show this to be in error.

o First, such an argument makes the gross assumption that at some point in time every Jewish person in the world (all of which keep the seventh-day Sabbath) magically forgot what day Sabbath is on. This assumption flies in the face of common reason. And, just to play devil’s advocate, if this did in fact happen (world-wide Sabbath amnesia) the Jews would still have their documentation to remind them. The Jews have always been meticulous in their record-keeping and thus would have plenty of written information at hand that would set them back on the correct day of the Sabbath.

o Usually a second argument is that of the calendar changes from the Julian (which was in use at the time of Christ) to the Gregorian calendar that we use today some days were lost. But what they fail to realize is that if the calendar changes altered which day the seventh-day is from the time of Christ, then that change would also affect the first-day of the week as well, which would mean that those that observe Sunday due to Pentecost or the resurrection of Christ are also observing an incorrect day. The calendar changes did not affect the weekly cycle at all.

That one is laughable. Even if it were lost before the first century, the fact that Our Lord kept a Saturday sabbath and that there is a good paper trail proving the Jews have kept Saturday since at least the 2nd century bc, (when our Lord kept it) proves that in our calendar Saturday is the correct day.

 

[Dave-W]

Argument #2:
"That was the old covenant - Jesus did away with the Sabbath and all the other ceremonial laws.”

Wrong. They all are still in place.

 

[Dave-W]

Argument #3:
"God doesn't care what day we observe.¨

Leviticus 23 calls the weekly Sabbath (and all of the other times) "Moedim." Most english translators render that word "feasts," but that is incorrect. Literally it means "appointed times." God sets the appointment and we are to keep it.

If the doctor sets you up for an appointment on 2 pm Wednesday, would it make any sense to show up on Monday or Thursday? No. That is NOT when your appointment (moed) is set for.

God set up an appointment to meet with us on every Seventh day. He will be there. Will you?

 

[reddogs]

"The above essay was based strictly on the arguments I have personally been party too. It is not meant to be exhaustive in nature. If any other SDAs know of any other arguments that they have heard I encourage them to post them in this thread."

This quote was from Palehorse, forgot to put in..

 

[reddogs]

Now here is what the churches from the Protestant Reformation say:


Anglican:

"And where are we told in the Scriptures that we are to keep the first day at all? We are commanded to keep the seventh; but we are nowhere commanded to keep the first day... The reason why we keep the first day of the week holy instead of the seventh is for the same reason that we observe many other things, not because the Bible, but because the Church, has enjoined it." Isaac Williams, Plain Sermons on the Catechism, pages 334, 336.​

Baptist:

"There was and is a command to keep holy the Sabbath day, but that Sabbath day was not Sunday. It will however be readily said, and with some show of triumph, that the Sabbath was transferred from the seventh to the first day of the week, with all its duties, privileges and sanctions. Earnestly desiring information on this subject, which I have studied for many years, I ask, where can the record of such a transaction be found: Not in the New Testament, absolutely not. There is no scriptural evidence of the change of the Sabbath institution from the seventh to the first day of the week." Dr. E. T. Hiscox, author of the Baptist Manual.
"To me it seems unaccountable that Jesus, during three years' discussion with His disciples, often conversing with them upon the Sabbath question, discussing it in some of its various aspects, freeing it from its false [Jewish traditional] glosses, never alluded to any transference of the day; also, that during the forty days of His resurrection life, no such thing was intimated. Nor, so far as we know, did the Spirit, which was given to bring to their remembrance all things whatsoever that He had said unto them, deal with this question. Nor yet did the inspired apostles, in preaching the gospel, founding churches, counseling and instructing those founded, discuss or approach the subject.
Of course I quite well know that Sunday did come into use in early Christian history as a religious day as we learn from the Christian Fathers and other sources. But what a pity that it comes branded with the mark of Paganism, and christened with the name of the sun-god, then adopted and sanctified by the Papal apostasy, and bequeathed as a sacred legacy to Protestantism." Dr. E. T. Hiscox, report of his sermon at the Baptist Minister's Convention, in 'New York Examiner,' November 16, 1893 (The leader / spokesman for the Roman Catholic Church agrees with this statement.See Below)
"The Scriptures nowhere call the first day of the week the Sabbath. . .There is no Scriptural authority for so doing, nor of course, any Scriptural obligation." The Watchman.
"We believe that the law of God is the eternal and unchangeable rule of His moral government."-"Baptist Church Manual," Art. 12.
"There was never any formal or authoritative change from the Jewish seventh-day Sabbath to the Christian first-day observance." -WILLIAM OWEN CARVER, "The Lord's Day in Our Day," page 49.
"There is nothing in Scripture that requires us to keep Sunday rather than Saturday as a holy day." Harold Lindsell (editor), Christianity Today, Nov. 5, 1976​

Church of Christ:

"But we do not find any direct command from God, or instruction from the risen Christ, or admonition from the early apostles, that the first day is to be substituted for the seventh day Sabbath." "Let us be clear on this point. Though to the Christian 'that day, the first day of the week' is the most memorable of all days ... there is no command or warrant in the New Testament for observing it as a holy day." "The Roman Church selected the first day of the week in honour of the resurrection of Christ. ..." Bible Standard, May, 1916, Auckland, New Zealand.
"... If the fourth command is binding upon us Gentiles by all means keep it. But let those who demand a strict observance of the Sabbath remember that the seventh day is the ONLY sabbath day commanded, and God never repealed that command. If you would keep the Sabbath, keep it; but Sunday is not the Sabbath. The argument of the 'Seventh-day Adventists' is on one point unassailable. It is the Seventh day not the first day that the command refers to." G. Alridge, Editor, The Bible Standard, April, 1916.
"There is no direct Scriptural authority for designating the first day the Lord's day."-DR. D. H. LUCAS, Christian Oracle, Jan. 23, 1890.
"The first day of the week is commonly called the Sabbath. This is a mistake. The Sabbath of the Bible was the day just preceding the first day of the week. The first day of the week is never called the Sabbath anywhere in the entire Scriptures. It is also an error to talk about the change of the Sabbath. There never was any change of the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday. There is not in any place in the Bible any intimation of such a change."-"First-Day Observance," pages 17, 19.
"It has reversed the fourth commandment by doing away with the Sabbath of God's Word, and instituting Sunday as a holiday." DR. N. SUMMERBELL, "History of the Christian Church," Third Edition, page 4I5.
"To command...men...to observe...the Lord's day...is contrary to the gospel." - "Memoirs of Alexander Campbell," Vol. 1, page 528.
"It is clearly proved that the pastors of the churches have struck out one of God's ten words, which, not only in the Old Testament, but in all revelation, are the most emphatically regarded as the synopsis of all religion and morality."-ALEXANDER CAMPBELL, "Debate With Purcell," page 214.
"I do not believe that the Lord's day came in the room of the Jewish Sabbath, or that the Sabbath was changed from the seventh to the first day, for this plain reason, where there is no testimony, there can be no faith. Now there is no testimony in all the oracles of heaven that the Sabbath was changed, or that the Lord's day came in the room of it."-ALEXANDER CAMPBELL, Washington Reporter, Oct. 8, 1821.​

Episcopalian:

"We have made the change from the seventh day to the first day, from Saturday to Sunday, on the authority of the one holy, Catholic, Apostolic Church of Christ." Bishop Symour, Why We keep Sunday.
"The Bible commandment says on the seventh-day thou shalt rest. That is Saturday. Nowhere in the Bible is it laid down that worship should be done on Sunday." Phillip Carrington, quoted in Toronto Daily Star, Oct 26, 1949 [Carrington (1892-), Anglican archbishop of Quebec​

Lutheran:

"The observance of the Lord's Day (Sunday) is founded not on any command of God, but on the authority of the Church." Augsburg Confession of Faith.
"They [the Catholics] allege the Sabbath changed into Sunday, the Lord's day, contrary to the Decalogue, as it appears, neither is there any example more boasted of than the changing of the Sabbath day. Great, say they, is the power and authority of the church, since it dispensed with one of the Ten Commandments." -Augsburg Confession of Faith, Art. 28, par. 9.
"They [Roman Catholics] allege the change of the Sabbath into the Lord's day, as it seemeth, to the Decalogue [the ten commandments]; and they have no example more in their mouths than they change of the Sabbath. They will needs have the Church's power to be very great, because it hath dispensed with the precept of the Decalogue." The Augsburg Confession, 1530 A.D. (Lutheran), part 2, art 7, in Philip Schaff, the Creeds of Christiandom, 4th Edition, vol 3, p64 [this important statement was made by the Lutherans and written by Melanchthon, only thirteen years after Luther nailed his theses to the door and began the Reformation].
"For up to this day mankind has absolutely trifled with the original and most special revelation of the Holy God, the ten words written upon the tables of the Law from Sinai."-"Crown Theological Library," page I78.
"The Christians in the ancient church very soon distinguished the first day of the week, Sunday; however, not as a Sabbath, but as an assembly day of the church, to study the Word of God together, and to celebrate the ordinances one with another: without a shadow of doubt, this took place as early as the first part of the second century."-Bishop GRIMELUND, "History of the Sabbath," page 60.
"The festival of Sunday, like all other festivals, was always only a human ordinance."- AUGUSTUS NEANDER, "History of the Christian Religion and Church," Vol. 1, page 186.
"I wonder exceedingly how it came to be imputed to me that I should reject the law of Ten Commandments...Whosoever abrogates the law must of necessity abrogate sin also."-MARTIN LUTHER, Spiritual Antichrist," pages 71, 72.
"We have seen how gradually the impression of the Jewish Sabbath faded from the mind of the Christian church, and how completely the newer thought underlying the observance of the first day took possession of the church. We have seen that the Christian of the first three centuries never confused one with the other, but for a time celebrated both." The Sunday Problem, a study book by the Lutheran Church (1923) p.36
"But they err in teaching that Sunday has taken the place of the Old Testament Sabbath and therefore must be kept as the seventh day had to be kept by the children of Israel .... These churches err in their teaching, for scripture has in no way ordained the first day of the week in place of the Sabbath. There is simply no law in the New Testament to that effect" John Theodore Mueller, Sabbath or Sunday, pp.15, 16​

 

[reddogs]

Methodist:

"This 'handwriting of ordinances' our Lord did blot out, take away, and nail to His cross. (Colossians 2: 14.) But the moral law contained in the Ten Commandments, and enforced by the prophets, He did not take away.... The moral law stands on an entirely different foundation from the ceremonial or ritual law. ...Every part of this law must remain in force upon all mankind and in all ages."-JOHN WESLEY, "Sermons on Several Occasions," 2-Vol. Edition, Vol. I, pages 221, 222.
"No Christian whatsoever is free from the obedience of the commandments which are called moral."-"Methodist Church Discipline," (I904), page 23.
"The Sabbath was made for MAN; not for the Hebrews, but for all men."-E.O. HAVEN, "Pillars of Truth," page 88.
"The reason we observe the first day instead of the seventh is based on no positive command. One will search the Scriptures in vain for authority for changing from the seventh day to the first. The early Christians began to worship on the first day of the week because Jesus rose from the dead on that day. By and by, this day of worship was made also a day of rest, a legal holiday. This took place in the year 321.
"The reason we observe the first day instead of the seventh is based on no positive command. One will search the Scriptures in vain for authority for changing from the seventh day to the first... Our Christian Sabbath, therefore, is not a matter of positive command. It is a gift of the church... "-CLOVIS G. CHAPPELL, "Ten Rules for Living," page 61.
"Sabbath in the Hebrew language signifies rest, and is the seventh day of the week... and it must be confessed that there is no law in the New Testament concerning the first day." Charles Buck, A Theological Dictionary, "Sabbath"
"In the days of very long ago the people of the world began to give names to everything, and they turned the sounds of the lips into words, so that the lips could speak a thought. In those days the people worshipped the sun because many words were made to tell of many thoughts about many things. The people became Christians and were ruled by an emperor whose name was Constantine. This emperor made Sunday the Christian Sabbath, because of the blessing of light and heat which came from the sun. So our Sunday is a sun-day, isn't it?"-Sunday School Advocate, Dec. 31, 1921.
"The moral law contained in the Ten Commandments, and enforced by the prophets, He [Christ] did not take away. It was not the design of His coming to revoke any part of this. This is a law which never can be broken... Every part of this law must remain in force upon all mankind and in all ages; as not depending either on time or place, or any other circumstances liable to change, but on the nature of God and the nature of man, and their changeable relation to each other."-JOHN WESLEY, "Sermons on Several Occasions," Vol. I, Sermon XXV.
"It is true that there is no positive command for infant baptism. Nor is there any for the keeping of the first day of the week. Many believe that Christ changed the Sabbath. But, from His own words, we see that He came for no such purpose. Those who believe that Jesus changed the Sabbath base it only on a supposition." Amos Binney, (Theological Compendium, p. 180-181)
"The Sabbath instituted in the beginning, and confirmed again and again by Moses and the prophets, has never been abrogated. A part of the moral law, not a jot or a tittle of its sanctity has been taken away." Bishops Pastoral.


Moody Bible Institute:

"The Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since. This fourth commandment begins with the word 'remember,' showing that the Sabbath already existed when God wrote the law on the tables of stone at Sinai. How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away with when they will admit that the other nine are still binding?"- D.L. MOODY, "Weighed and Wanting," page 47.
"I honestly believe that this commandment [the fourth, or Sabbath commandment] is just as binding today as it ever was. I have talked with men who have said that it has been abrogated, but they have never been able to point to any place in the Bible where God repealed it. When Christ was on earth, He did nothing to set it aside; He freed it from the traces under which the scribes and Pharisees had put it, and gave it its true place. 'The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath.' It is just as practicable and as necessary for men today as it ever was-in fact, more than ever, because we live in such an intense age.' - Id., page 46.
"This Fourth is not a commandment for one place, or one time, but for all places and times." D.L. Moody, at San Francisco, Jan. 1st, 1881.​

Presbyterian:

"The Christian Sabbath (Sunday) is not in the Scriptures, and was not by the primitive church called the Sabbath." Dwight's Theology, Vol. 14, p. 401. "A further argument for the perpetuity of the Sabbath we have in Matthew 24:20, Pray ye that your flight be not in the winter neither on the Sabbath day. But the final destruction of Jerusalem was after the Christian dispensation was fully set up (AD 70). Yet it is plainly implied in these words of the Lord that even then Christians were bound to strict observation of the Sabbath." Works of Jonathon Edwards, (Presby.) Vol. 4, p. 621.
"We must not imagine that the coming of Christ has freed us from the authority of the law; for it is the eternal rule of a devout and holy life, and must therefore be as unchangeable as the justice of God, which it embraced, is constant and uniform." JOHN CALVIN, "Commentary on a Harmony of the Gospels," Vol. 1, page 277.
"God instituted the Sabbath at the creation of man, setting apart the seventh day for the purpose, and imposed its observance as a universal and perpetual moral obligation upon the race." (American Presbyterian Board of Publication, Tract No. 175.)
"The observance of the seventh-day Sabbath did not cease till it was abolished after the [Roman] empire became Christian," American Presbyterian Board of Publication, Tract No. 118.
"The moral law doth for ever bind all, as well justified persons as others, to the obedience thereof; and that not only in regard to the matter contained in it, but also in respect of the authority of God the Creator who gave it. Neither doth Christ in the gospel in any way dissolve, but much strengthen this obligation." "Westminster Confession of Faith," Chap. 19, Art. 5.
"The Sabbath is a part of the Decalogue-the Ten Commandments. This alone for ever settles the question as to the perpetuity of the institution ... Until, therefore, it can be shown that the whole moral law has been repealed, the Sabbath will stand...The teaching of Christ confirms the perpetuity of the Sabbath."- T.C. BLAKE, D.D., "Theology Condensed," pages 474, 475.
"Sunday being the first day of which the Gentiles solemnly adored that planet and called it Sunday, partly from its influence on that day especially, and partly in respect to its divine body (as they conceived it) the Christians thought fit to keep the same day and the same name of it, that they might not appear carelessly peevish, and by that means hinder the conversion of the Gentiles, and bring a greater prejudice that might be otherwise taken against the gospel" T.M. Morer, Dialogues on the Lord's Day
"There is no word, no hint in the New Testament about abstaining from work on Sunday. The observance of Ash Wednesday, or Lent, stands exactly on the same footing as the observance of Sunday. Into the rest of Sunday no Divine Law enters." Canon Eyton, in The Ten Commandments.
"Some have tried to build the observance of Sunday upon Apostolic command, whereas the Apostles gave no command on the matter at all.... The truth is, so soon as we appeal to the litera scripta [literal writing] of the Bible, the Sabbatarians have the best of the argument." The Christian at Work, April 19, 1883, and Jan. 1884

​

Southern Baptist:

"The sacred name of the Seventh day is Sabbath. This fact is too clear to require argument [Exodus 20:10 quoted] on this point the plain teaching of the Word has been admitted in all ages. Not once did the disciples apply the Sabbath law to the first day of the week, -- that folly was left for a later age, nor did they pretend that the first day supplanted the seventh." Joseph Hudson Taylor, The Sabbatic Question p. 14-17, 41.

"The first four commandments set forth man's obligations directly toward God.... But when we keep the first four commandments, we are likely to keep the other six. . . . The fourth commandment sets forth God's claim on man's time and thought.... The six days of labour and the rest on the Sabbath are to be maintained as a witness to God's toil and rest in the creation. . . . No one of the ten words is of merely racial significance.... The Sabbath was established originally (long before Moses) in no special connection with the Hebrews, but as an institution for all mankind, in commemoration of God's rest after the six days of creation. It was designed for all the descendants of Adam."-Adult Quarterly, Southern Baptist Convention series, Aug. 15, 1937.​

 

[reddogs]

Here another good study on this issue to check out...http://666man.net/Colossians_2_16-17_By_David_Conklin/colintro.html