Adding to the Word?

honorthesabbath said:

I'm on my way over to Mom and Dad's right now and lash out at them in my residual anger for lying to me about these things! WHAT NERVE!!! 'I HATE THEM FOR THIS ATROCITY!!!!!

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LOL

You should not have written that - we maybe called to testify in court

Haggai said:

How can we believe everything Paul or John said? They too were imperfect sinners.
My point being, though I don't think EGW was infallible, i think her writings were inspired by God. But how do we know which are inspired and which are just her personal suggestions, advice, and admonitions: Whichever are convenient or according to our desire? EGW wrote in her time and for her time, as well as ours. Jesus and the apostles did likewise. They discussed issues of that time.

As far as frightening people or making them feel guilty? When can we begin to call sin, sin. Christianity isn't about making you feel good. It's about your salvation and following Christ. Jesus didn't say we'd feel good, he said we'd encounter many trials and tribulations. God promised that if we confess, he will forgive. That's a promise. If we confess, we know we are forgiven not by how good/bad we feel, but by the word of God.

I think the bickering about trivial EGW things is just that..trivial. Christ said go and teach the gospel to all nations. He said keep my commandments, take up your cross, and follow me. It does not serve us well to argue over EGW and parables. Most can understand the parable regardless of it being a real occurance or not. You can get the point Christ is trying to make.

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Haggai--YOU get the gold star for this thread! Your wisdom and insight are fantastic. I too have wondered why so many in here allow their precious time on this earth to be dominated by negative nay saying and defamation one of God's messengers. I wonder if this pleases Him?

I thank you for being a light in all this darkness.

Why are being so simple-minded? It is as if we are making every effort to remain in ignorance.

Adventtruth said:

There is a thread on CARM started by JohnT where formers told how they where spiritually abuse by Adventist. You should go and read it if you get a chance.



AT

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I have never received any greater spiritual abuse than I did as a teenager in the Pentecostal church. From the damnation of hellfire , to the 'hell bound' if a girl wore her hair in a certain style or length, or slacks or make-up. You name it--WORKS all the way. Of course--I noticed early on that the MEN had no such restrictions placed upon their 'hair-do's' or their style of clothing--ROFL!! (Can you say Benny Hinnes hairdresser')

But the greatest devastation that DID leave it's mark for a long time, was the issue of 'tongues' and the 'baptism' of the Holy Spirit. Week after week I was lead to the alter to receive that 'gift', I was thrown to the ground with many heavy hands placed upon my head and shoulders while loud and demanding voices screamed at me to 'just recieve it'. They even made me 'imitate' the sounds that THEY were making while speaking in tongues. I guess they thought I could 'practice' my way into getting that 'baptism'.

Then it was suggested that perhaps I had 'hidden sin' in my life as to why I wasn't 'saved' because I wasn't given the 'evidence' of salvation through tongues. Since I knew I wasn't practicing any 'known sin', I came to the conclusion that God hated me or He would save me and give me His gift of tongues. Believe me folks--when you spend your life from 13 yrs old to somewhere in your 30's believing that God hates you--it leaves it's mark for sure.

So you guys can complain all you want to about the SDA church and EGW--but NOTHING that I have ever experienced in it--could ever begin to compare with what the Pentecostals did to me--NOTHING!

Haggai said:

How can we believe everything Paul or John said? They too were imperfect sinners.
My point being, though I don't think EGW was infallible, i think her writings were inspired by God. But how do we know which are inspired and which are just her personal suggestions, advice, and admonitions: Whichever are convenient or according to our desire? EGW wrote in her time and for her time, as well as ours. Jesus and the apostles did likewise. They discussed issues of that time.

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Anytime EGW's writings are brought into the light and questioned or shown to be mortally flawed, the first avenue of defense for SDA's is to tear down the Bible. As a CHRISTIAN I find that completely offensive!

Also, what did Jesus write?

And, lastly, eternal life was NOT just an issue of 'that time'.

In Christ alone...

honorthesabbath said:

I have never received any greater spiritual abuse than I did as a teenager in the Pentecostal church. From the damnation of hellfire , to the 'hell bound' if a girl wore her hair in a certain style or length, or slacks or make-up. You name it--WORKS all the way. Of course--I noticed early on that the MEN had no such restrictions placed upon their 'hair-do's' or their style of clothing--ROFL!! (Can you say Benny Hinnes hairdresser')

But the greatest devastation that DID leave it's mark for a long time, was the issue of 'tongues' and the 'baptism' of the Holy Spirit. Week after week I was lead to the alter to receive that 'gift', I was thrown to the ground with many heavy hands placed upon my head and shoulders while loud and demanding voices screamed at me to 'just recieve it'. They even made me 'imitate' the sounds that THEY were making while speaking in tongues. I guess they thought I could 'practice' my way into getting that 'baptism'.

Then it was suggested that perhaps I had 'hidden sin' in my life as to why I wasn't 'saved' because I wasn't given the 'evidence' of salvation through tongues. Since I knew I wasn't practicing any 'known sin', I came to the conclusion that God hated me or He would save me and give me His gift of tongues. Believe me folks--when you spend your life from 13 yrs old to somewhere in your 30's believing that God hates you--it leaves it's mark for sure.

So you guys can complain all you want to about the SDA church and EGW--but NOTHING that I have ever experienced in it--could ever begin to compare with what the Pentecostals did to me--NOTHING!

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People that are in bondage that don't realize it view bondage as being normal and do nothing to escape.

NightEternal said:

Oh PLEASE. Defamation? Psh, yeah, okay.

DID SHE OR DID SHE NOT MAKE THE QUOTED STATEMENT? If she did (and she DID), HOW is it defamation? Defamation means you LIE about someone. She DID say what she said, so go ahead and show us how we are lying when we are merely dealing with her OWN WORDS.

You complain about all of this darkness in here and yet you still constantly hang around our area and post in here.

What does that say about YOU? You obviously don't think it is that 'dark' then!

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Night--you see what YOU WANT to see my friend. Many years ago when I read EGW's 'amalgamation' statement, not once did I think that she was referring to man and animals procreating--not once! How absurd to even imagine such a thing.

I understood immediately that she was referring to peoples intermingling and man's incessant cross-breeding of animals that they themselves wouldn't do in nature that resulted in the variations. Today it's hard to find a 'purebred' race upon this earth (if there ever truly was) .Races and nationalities of people interbreed now without much of a thought. But hundreds of years ago--cross marriage was rare. I know this is what she meant.

When it was brought to my attention a few years ago on Yahoo that some were saying that she meant that man and animals were procreating--I laughed till I cried. I thought to myself' "how could any idiot actually think that she was referring that"? It still amazes me.

honorthesabbath said:

I have never received any greater spiritual abuse than I did as a teenager in the Pentecostal church. From the damnation of hellfire , to the 'hell bound' if a girl wore her hair in a certain style or length, or slacks or make-up. You name it--WORKS all the way. Of course--I noticed early on that the MEN had no such restrictions placed upon their 'hair-do's' or their style of clothing--ROFL!! (Can you say Benny Hinnes hairdresser')

But the greatest devastation that DID leave it's mark for a long time, was the issue of 'tongues' and the 'baptism' of the Holy Spirit. Week after week I was lead to the alter to receive that 'gift', I was thrown to the ground with many heavy hands placed upon my head and shoulders while loud and demanding voices screamed at me to 'just recieve it'. They even made me 'imitate' the sounds that THEY were making while speaking in tongues. I guess they thought I could 'practice' my way into getting that 'baptism'.

Then it was suggested that perhaps I had 'hidden sin' in my life as to why I wasn't 'saved' because I wasn't given the 'evidence' of salvation through tongues. Since I knew I wasn't practicing any 'known sin', I came to the conclusion that God hated me or He would save me and give me His gift of tongues. Believe me folks--when you spend your life from 13 yrs old to somewhere in your 30's believing that God hates you--it leaves it's mark for sure.

So you guys can complain all you want to about the SDA church and EGW--but NOTHING that I have ever experienced in it--could ever begin to compare with what the Pentecostals did to me--NOTHING!

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Honor,

Wow! Thank you for sharing that!

honorthesabbath said:

Night--you see what YOU WANT to see my friend. Many years ago when I read EGW's 'amalgamation' statement, not once did I think that she was referring to man and animals procreating--not once! How absurd to even imagine such a thing.

I understood immediately that she was referring to peoples intermingling and man's incessant cross-breeding of animals that they themselves wouldn't do in nature that resulted in the variations. Today it's hard to find a 'purebred' race upon this earth (if there ever truly was) .Races and nationalities of people interbreed now without much of a thought. But hundreds of years ago--cross marriage was rare. I know this is what she meant.

When it was brought to my attention a few years ago on Yahoo that some were saying that she meant that man and animals were procreating--I laughed till I cried. I thought to myself' "how could any idiot actually think that she was referring that"? It still amazes me.

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How could 'human to human' relationships be considered 'base crimes'?

How could sexual relations between married human beings be considered 'base crimes'?

How could 'beast to beast' relationships be considered 'base crimes'?

EGW used the 'base crime' phrase in only one other instance, and it was to describe Potiphar's wife's advances on Joseph.

How could 'beast to beast' relationships 'deface the image of God'?

Why did Uriah Smith, in an attempt to defend EGW's statements, say that her amalgamation statements referred to "such cases as the wild Bushmen of Africa, some tribes of the Hottentots, and perhaps the Digger Indians of our own country"?

If this is NOT what EGW meant, then where did she make the correction? Instead the Whites promoted Smith's publication at campmeetings!!!

Sometimes the desire to be right blinds one from the truth!

In Christ alone...

honorthesabbath said:

I have never received any greater spiritual abuse than I did as a teenager in the Pentecostal church. From the damnation of hellfire , to the 'hell bound' if a girl wore her hair in a certain style or length, or slacks or make-up. You name it--WORKS all the way. Of course--I noticed early on that the MEN had no such restrictions placed upon their 'hair-do's' or their style of clothing--ROFL!! (Can you say Benny Hinnes hairdresser')

But the greatest devastation that DID leave it's mark for a long time, was the issue of 'tongues' and the 'baptism' of the Holy Spirit. Week after week I was lead to the alter to receive that 'gift', I was thrown to the ground with many heavy hands placed upon my head and shoulders while loud and demanding voices screamed at me to 'just recieve it'. They even made me 'imitate' the sounds that THEY were making while speaking in tongues. I guess they thought I could 'practice' my way into getting that 'baptism'.

Then it was suggested that perhaps I had 'hidden sin' in my life as to why I wasn't 'saved' because I wasn't given the 'evidence' of salvation through tongues. Since I knew I wasn't practicing any 'known sin', I came to the conclusion that God hated me or He would save me and give me His gift of tongues. Believe me folks--when you spend your life from 13 yrs old to somewhere in your 30's believing that God hates you--it leaves it's mark for sure.

So you guys can complain all you want to about the SDA church and EGW--but NOTHING that I have ever experienced in it--could ever begin to compare with what the Pentecostals did to me--NOTHING!

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Honor, I have no question that that kind of stuff would leave its mark, but you're comparing two completely different systems of belief. Your experience in the one doesn't negate other people's experiences in the other. Just because you haven't experienced something in the Adventist Church, that doesn't mean that it doesn't happen.

Many people who grew up in the Adventist church have justifiably felt abused. I know people who were taught as children that they could never know for sure if they would be saved because their name could come up in the IJ at any moment, and if they were not perfectly sinless at that moment, they would be lost and never know it until Jesus came. Many of the older members in our churches had that mindset because it was commonly taught while they were growing up. Some of my teachers presented it that way, too. Some people have suffered terribly because of it, having no hope that they could ever overcome all of their sins in order to pass the judgment. Some people have left Christianity altogether because they thought that they would eventually go to hell anyway, so it didn't matter.

I know people who were read Foxe's Book of Martyrs as children and were warned about how much more horrible the persecution would be at the end of time. I know people who live in so much fear of that time that their only hope is to die beforehand so that they won't have to go through it. I've met people who played "Time of Trouble" games as children, in which they would act out the roles of Adventists and false Christians who were torturing the Adventists.

I was afraid because of some of these ideas, too, as a young child, but God reached me with the true gospel when I was 16 (through Christian music), and I no longer had those kinds of fears. Unfortunately, some teachings in Adventism, like the IJ, tend to obscure the gospel, and some Adventists never escape those fears. Many of our church members had no assurance of salvation.

Though I never felt abused because my experience was not as bad as some people's, I can definitely understand why some do feel that way. Some of them were terribly mistreated by other Adventists in positions of authority because of these teachings.

honorthesabbath said:

I have never received any greater spiritual abuse than I did as a teenager in the Pentecostal church. From the damnation of hellfire , to the 'hell bound' if a girl wore her hair in a certain style or length, or slacks or make-up. You name it--WORKS all the way. Of course--I noticed early on that the MEN had no such restrictions placed upon their 'hair-do's' or their style of clothing--ROFL!! (Can you say Benny Hinnes hairdresser')

But the greatest devastation that DID leave it's mark for a long time, was the issue of 'tongues' and the 'baptism' of the Holy Spirit. Week after week I was lead to the alter to receive that 'gift', I was thrown to the ground with many heavy hands placed upon my head and shoulders while loud and demanding voices screamed at me to 'just recieve it'. They even made me 'imitate' the sounds that THEY were making while speaking in tongues. I guess they thought I could 'practice' my way into getting that 'baptism'.

Then it was suggested that perhaps I had 'hidden sin' in my life as to why I wasn't 'saved' because I wasn't given the 'evidence' of salvation through tongues. Since I knew I wasn't practicing any 'known sin', I came to the conclusion that God hated me or He would save me and give me His gift of tongues. Believe me folks--when you spend your life from 13 yrs old to somewhere in your 30's believing that God hates you--it leaves it's mark for sure.

So you guys can complain all you want to about the SDA church and EGW--but NOTHING that I have ever experienced in it--could ever begin to compare with what the Pentecostals did to me--NOTHING!

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I am deeply sorry you were injured in this way. What a violation.

Sophia7 said:

. Many of our church members had no assurance of salvation.

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This is such an important observation. I remember one of my Sabbath School teachers saying that Ellen White said that only one in twenty members of the current Adventist church would be saved. That's difficult for a child as they look around and apply it to their own church family. Add the fear tactics of our evangelism and a steady diet of plays about end times trauma, it's no wonder some people in the church are/were terrified!

I would imagine that experiences greatly vary and some people had much less of this. And probably some people much more.

freeindeed2 said:

People that are in bondage that don't realize it view bondage as being normal and do nothing to escape.

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Free--it was the ADVENTIST doctrine that taught me 'righteousness by grace through faith alone'--not the Pentecostals. So I'm not in bondage anymore.

Avonia said:

This is such an important observation. I remember one of my Sabbath School teachers saying that Ellen White said that only one in twenty members of the current Adventist church would be saved. That's difficult for a child as they look around and apply it to their own church family. Add the fear tactics of our evangelism and a steady diet of plays about end times trauma, it's no wonder some people in the church are/were terrified!

I would imagine that experiences greatly vary and some people had much less of this. And probably some people much more.

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Avonia--If there were plays about the time of trouble--than whatever church did/or is doing that are going against EGW's admonition that 'NOTHING theatrical should enter the work'! She vehemently discourages plays and skits depicting biblical themes.

So see--she gets the blame for what others do.

honorthesabbath said:

Avonia--If there were plays about the time of trouble--than whatever church did/or is doing that are going against EGW's admonition that 'NOTHING theatrical should enter the work'! She vehemently discourages plays and skits depicting biblical themes.

So see--she gets the blame for what others do.

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Honor, I wonder how she felt about Altar calls? Those were something too!

For those of you who did not have them, the pastor calls everyone up front who accepts Christ, wants Christ in their lives, or wants forgiveness of their sins. So, a bunch of people go up right away and then "wait" for the rest. Which leaves some with the option of either being manipulated or being the only one who "rejects" Jesus!

Avonia said:

Honor, I wonder how she felt about Altar calls? Those were something too!

For those of you who did not have them, the pastor calls everyone up front who accepts Christ, wants Christ in their lives, or wants forgiveness of their sins. So, a bunch of people go up right away and then "wait" for the rest. Which leaves some with the option of either being manipulated or being the only one who "rejects" Jesus!

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I've never been in an Adventist church that did alter calls. But it's an every service practice in the Pentecostal church--and yes--it leaves those strangers in their seats feeling like bugs in a jar!

honorthesabbath said:

Free--it was the ADVENTIST doctrine that taught me 'righteousness by grace through faith alone'--not the Pentecostals. So I'm not in bondage anymore.

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But you still consider yourself under the law, a law which 'gendereth to bondage'.

And I wasn't making a contrast between denominations or sectarian groups.

In Christ alone...

honorthesabbath said:

Avonia--If there were plays about the time of trouble--than whatever church did/or is doing that are going against EGW's admonition that 'NOTHING theatrical should enter the work'! She vehemently discourages plays and skits depicting biblical themes.

So see--she gets the blame for what others do.

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The Bible doesn't prohibit plays and skits. It would be just as well for the church to avoid them, though, if they are going to scare kids half to death about the time of trouble.