Adam's Flesh Could Not Be Saved

Davy · Feb 4, 2021

Clare73 said:
Our resurrection bodies will be physical as was Jesus' resurrection body (Lk 24:37-43).

We will have spiritual physical bodies after the resurrection, similar to the present natural body organizationally, but radically different in that it will be imperishable, glorious and powerful, fit to live eternally with God. There is continuity with our bodies now, but there is also change (1Co 15:42-44).

In Paul's usage, "spiritual" does not mean non-physical, immaterial, non-corporeal, it means the domain of the Holy Spirit.

I'm not saying the resurrection isn't real. But it is not to another flesh body. Paul clearly showed this in 1 Corinthians 15, so I'm not going to argue with those who won't read what Paul said there. And the fact that Lord Jesus mentioned the "resurrection of damnation" happening on the day of His coming too per John 5:28-29 ought to be enough to show the spiritual body does not mean automatic salvation in Him. Our souls have be made immortal also, born again by Faith on Jesus Christ.

Davy · Feb 4, 2021

ViaCrucis said:
St. Paul in 1 Corinthians 15 quite emphatically teaches the resurrection of the body.

I assume your confusion stems from the fact that he speaks of the sowing of the "natural body" and the rising of the "spiritual body".

The problem here is that Paul isn't contrasting a physical body with a spiritual one, the word being translated as "natural" in some translations doesn't mean "natural", nor does it mean "physical". The contrast is between a psuchekos body and a pneumatikos body.

The word psuchekos is the adjective form of the word psuche, "soul", while pneumatikos is the adjective form of the word pneuma, "spirit". The body is sown a "soulish body" it is raised a "Spiritual body".

The body as we have it now isn't soulish because it is made up of "soul" anymore than the resurrection body is Spiritual because it is made up of "spirit". The contrast isn't between material compositions, but between what sort of life the body has. The present body is animated, made alive, by the animal life of the soul; but in the resurrection the body is animated, made alive, by the power of the Holy Spirit. Compare with Romans 8:11.

Our present sort of life is the mortal, perishable, soulish; but in the resurrection the body is transformed, transfigured, glorified, the flesh is raised up and transformed from a mortal, perishable, soulish existence to an immortal, imperishable, spiritual one. In the resurrection we have eternal, glorious bodily life by the grace of God and the power of the Holy Spirit.

What kind of body does Christ have in His resurrection? That is the kind of body we too shall have in the resurrection of the body on the Last Day.

That's why the Apostle says in Philippians 3:21 that Christ at His coming will change our current lowly bodies to be like His glorious body. And, recall what He Himself said in the Gospel of Luke, "See my hands and My feet, touch Me and see that it is I, Myself, a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have" (Luke 24:39).

Whoever has been teaching that the body does not rise is lying to you and leading you away from the Holy Gospel and the future hope of our salvation.

-CryptoLutheran

Paul is contrasting the flesh body with the spiritual body. Natural represents the flesh body. He used other adjectives to describe the differences between the two bodies also, like corruption and incorruption, image of the earthy and image of the heavenly. So I'm not going to argue with someone who refuses to grasp that as written. The resurrection Paul showed is to a "spiritual body", and body of incorruption, not another flesh body. It will operate similar to flesh, but it won't get sick, feel hot or cold, etc., not a flesh body.

Clare73 · Feb 4, 2021

Davy said:
I'm not saying the resurrection isn't real. But it is not to another flesh body. Paul clearly showed this in 1 Corinthians 15, so I'm not going to argue with those who won't read what Paul said there. And the fact that Lord Jesus mentioned the "resurrection of damnation" happening on the day of His coming too per John 5:28-29 ought to be enough to show the spiritual body does not mean automatic salvation in Him. Our souls have be made immortal also, born again by Faith on Jesus Christ.

Jesus' resurrection body is the proto-type. It was physical.

ViaCrucis · Feb 4, 2021

Davy said:
Paul is contrasting the flesh body with the spiritual body. Natural represents the flesh body. He used other adjectives to describe the differences between the two bodies also, like corruption and incorruption, image of the earthy and image of the heavenly. So I'm not going to argue with someone who refuses to grasp that as written. The resurrection Paul showed is to a "spiritual body", and body of incorruption, not another flesh body. It will operate similar to flesh, but it won't get sick, feel hot or cold, etc., not a flesh body.

He says σῶμα ψυχικόν (soma psuchikon), a "soulish body". No, that's not a "flesh body". If he wanted to contrast physical and spiritual, he would have used a word that meant "physical" or "fleshly". He could have said soma phusikon (literally "natural body") but he didn't; he could have said soma sarkikon (literally "fleshy body") but he didn't. He said soma psuchikon, "soulish body".

The contrast isn't between flesh and spirit, the contrast is between soulishness and the Spiritual.

Again, compare with Romans 8:11.

-CryptoLutheran

fhansen · Feb 4, 2021

Davy said:
It appears some brethren on the forum need a Bible lesson on the fact that Jesus did not come to save our flesh, He came to save our spirit/soul, as Apostle Paul was emphatic that flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom of God, neither does corruption inherit incorruption...

1 Cor 15:45-54
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
KJV

What does this mean for Adam and Eve's flesh before they disobeyed God in His Garden of Eden? Apostle Paul showed in the above that no one will see God's future Kingdom with a flesh body. Why? Because the flesh represents a body of "corruption".

This is elementary Bible 101 stuff, because our flesh was not made to live forever. It's the atheists which don't believe in God that want to somehow think their flesh can be immortal. It cannot. Even in Romans 7 Apostle Paul showed that in his fleshy members he served the law of sin. And sin = death. Our flesh is ordained to perish at the end of this world.

Rom 7:21-25
I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
KJV

Later modern Bible translations try to get away from identifying sin hard-linked to the flesh. The KJV is accurate on that, which apparently is why some today want to get away from the KJV translation on this matter, and instead push man's philosophy.

This means of course, that the seed of sin was already present in Adam and Eve's flesh, even before they sinned. Corruption cannot inherit incorruption, like Apostle Paul said. The flesh body is for this present world; the spiritual body is for the world to come.

Adam was not created to sin. God created nothing to sin. Fallen man will now continue to experiment with and struggle against the temptations of the flesh that Adam opened the door to but had Adam not disobeyed he would've lived forever in any case.

Jamdoc · Feb 4, 2021

Davy said:
It appears some brethren on the forum need a Bible lesson on the fact that Jesus did not come to save our flesh, He came to save our spirit/soul, as Apostle Paul was emphatic that flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom of God, neither does corruption inherit incorruption...

1 Cor 15:45-54
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
KJV

What does this mean for Adam and Eve's flesh before they disobeyed God in His Garden of Eden? Apostle Paul showed in the above that no one will see God's future Kingdom with a flesh body. Why? Because the flesh represents a body of "corruption".

This is elementary Bible 101 stuff, because our flesh was not made to live forever. It's the atheists which don't believe in God that want to somehow think their flesh can be immortal. It cannot. Even in Romans 7 Apostle Paul showed that in his fleshy members he served the law of sin. And sin = death. Our flesh is ordained to perish at the end of this world.

Rom 7:21-25
I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
KJV

Later modern Bible translations try to get away from identifying sin hard-linked to the flesh. The KJV is accurate on that, which apparently is why some today want to get away from the KJV translation on this matter, and instead push man's philosophy.

This means of course, that the seed of sin was already present in Adam and Eve's flesh, even before they sinned. Corruption cannot inherit incorruption, like Apostle Paul said. The flesh body is for this present world; the spiritual body is for the world to come.

Luke 24:39

Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

Christ's resurrection body had flesh and bone, Thomas wouldn't believe it's the Lord until He could touch Him, and Jesus invited him to do so.

What's it with all the cryptoplatonists lately that don't believe in a bodily resurrection and just want to be disincorporated ghosts forever?

Jesus talked about eating and drinking together in His father's kingdom, ghosts don't have that kind of physical interaction.
Spiritual body doesn't mean intangible ghost being with no flesh.
It's still a body. It can still eat and be touched.

zoidar · Feb 4, 2021

Davy said:
It appears some brethren on the forum need a Bible lesson on the fact that Jesus did not come to save our flesh, He came to save our spirit/soul, as Apostle Paul was emphatic that flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom of God, neither does corruption inherit incorruption...

1 Cor 15:45-54
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
KJV

What does this mean for Adam and Eve's flesh before they disobeyed God in His Garden of Eden? Apostle Paul showed in the above that no one will see God's future Kingdom with a flesh body. Why? Because the flesh represents a body of "corruption".

This is elementary Bible 101 stuff, because our flesh was not made to live forever. It's the atheists which don't believe in God that want to somehow think their flesh can be immortal. It cannot. Even in Romans 7 Apostle Paul showed that in his fleshy members he served the law of sin. And sin = death. Our flesh is ordained to perish at the end of this world.

Rom 7:21-25
I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
KJV

Later modern Bible translations try to get away from identifying sin hard-linked to the flesh. The KJV is accurate on that, which apparently is why some today want to get away from the KJV translation on this matter, and instead push man's philosophy.

This means of course, that the seed of sin was already present in Adam and Eve's flesh, even before they sinned. Corruption cannot inherit incorruption, like Apostle Paul said. The flesh body is for this present world; the spiritual body is for the world to come.

Hm, but Jesus glorified flesh body ascended to heaven.

Gregory Thompson · Feb 4, 2021

I'm unsure if people are denying that we take off the corruption and put on incorruption - or if the discussion's too confused to get that precise.

mlepfitjw · Feb 4, 2021

We can't be perfected in the flesh, but God can help us overcome the temptations of the flesh that can be harmful to oneself (Lifestyle Choices) in turning the chance of living a longer life span to have a relationship with God by loving him with all our mind, all our body, all our strength and all our soul. Loving others as ourselves. With no judgement on others and what they may do with their own lives, we can share with them the power of God in what he has been able to help us overcome by the spirit.

Maria Billingsley · Feb 4, 2021

Davy said:
What made Eve have this thought when she saw the fruit?

She fell into temptation. Satan's one and only work, to tempt through deception.

The Liturgist · Feb 4, 2021

Davy said:
What I showed from God's Word is Bible 101, elementary understanding. Flesh does NOT represent Christ's Salvation! Salvation of one's flesh is the absurd idea, a fleshy carnal idea.

No, its more like Docetism 101. And it is refuted by Job 19:26, by Ezekiel, and other scriptures, including Thomas the Apostle touching the wounds of Christ.

Clare73 · Feb 4, 2021

Michael Collum said:
I'm unsure if people are denying that we take off the corruption and put on incorruption - or if the discussion's too confused to get that precise.

Paul reveals that our physical natural (decaying/corruptible, weak, sinful) bodies which go into the ground,
will rise as physical spiritual (incorruptible/immortal, powerful and glorious) bodies.

Gregory Thompson · Feb 4, 2021

Clare73 said:
Paul reveals that our decaying, weak, sinful bodies which go into the ground, will rise incorruptible (immortal), powerful and glorious.

No, he reveals that we will take off these corruptible bodies, and then put on new bodies that are not corruptible.

Clare73 · Feb 4, 2021

Clare73 said:
Paul reveals that our physical natural (decaying/corruptible, weak, sinful) bodies which go into the ground,
will rise as physical spiritual (incorruptible/immortal, powerful and glorious) bodies.

Michael Collum said:
No, he reveals that we will take off these corruptible bodies, and then put on new bodies that are not corruptible.

Isn't that what I said?

Gregory Thompson · Feb 4, 2021

Clare73 said:
Isn't that what I said?

What you wrote said that the same corruptible body will become incorruptible.

There's a distinct difference.

Clare73 · Feb 4, 2021

Michael Collum said:
What you wrote said that the same corruptible body will become incorruptible.

There's a distinct difference.

What I wrote is what Paul states, and a distinction Paul clearly denies, four times.
The body is sown. . .it is raised--1Co 15:42, 43, 44.

Gregory Thompson · Feb 4, 2021

Clare73 said:
What I wrote is what Paul states, and a distinction Paul clearly denies, four times.
The body is sown. . .it is raised--1Co 15:42, 43, 44.

Paul also said in the same chapter however, that this corruptible will be taken off, and we will put on incorruptibility.

This may be why it is said, the former things will no longer be mentioned or remembered in the prophets. Having a completely new body, would purge memories of living in a world that was dictated by sin and decay. Since memory of the world of decay no longer exist, it can no longer be created by those sharing the same nature as the creator.

The environment in the new heaven and the new earth is different, so we'll need a different kind of body. It will be physical, but the physics will be different.

Clare73 · Feb 4, 2021

Michael Collum said:
Paul also said in the same chapter however, that this corruptible will be taken off, and we will put on incorruptibility.

Yes, 1Co 15:53-54 is the same metaphor of our body as the clothing of our spirit as in 2Co 5:1-4.

This may be why it is said, the former things will no longer be mentioned or remembered in the prophets. Having a completely new body, would purge memories of living in a world that was dictated by sin and decay. Since memory of the world of decay no longer exist, it can no longer be created by those sharing the same nature as the creator.

The environment in the new heaven and the new earth is different, so we'll need a different kind of body. It will be physical, but the physics will be different.

rom8:38 · Feb 4, 2021

Davy said:
God creating man in His image and likeness per Genesis 1 is about the 'outer' appearance. The outward image of man comes from how God Himself looks, for the image of man originates from Him. That has nothing to do with how God Himself is Perfect and can never sin.

Such an analogy between God and the flesh ought to easily be understood by those who believe on Jesus Christ, since Jesus of Nazareth was perfect in His flesh as He had no sin. Could Adam be like that? Obviously not, because he sinned, and his sin was imparted to all born flesh, excepting Christ Jesus. Wow, what exactly is this leading to? Simple, the fact that there's only ONE Savior of those born in the flesh, and that is Jesus Christ, not the man Adam.

Creating man in His image cannot refer to an 'outward image.' God is a Spirit (Jn. 4:24); the Holy Spirit by definition is a Spirit; and at the time of the creation of Adam and Eve, Jesus had not been made carnal. It has to be referring to Adam and Eve's inner composition. They too were never to know death unless they sinned. (Gn. 2:17). Thus, in their original state, they could not have been corrupted. That they fell for Satan's temptation was the failure of a holy use of their free will in discernment. Then they were corrupted, and must be raised in an incorruptible body like any other sheep who is resurrected. You might have a more workable discussion if you lighten up on the person attacks. God Bless.

throughfiierytrial · Feb 4, 2021

Davy said:
It appears some brethren on the forum need a Bible lesson on the fact that Jesus did not come to save our flesh, He came to save our spirit/soul, as Apostle Paul was emphatic that flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom of God, neither does corruption inherit incorruption...

1 Cor 15:45-54
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
KJV

What does this mean for Adam and Eve's flesh before they disobeyed God in His Garden of Eden? Apostle Paul showed in the above that no one will see God's future Kingdom with a flesh body. Why? Because the flesh represents a body of "corruption".

This is elementary Bible 101 stuff, because our flesh was not made to live forever. It's the atheists which don't believe in God that want to somehow think their flesh can be immortal. It cannot. Even in Romans 7 Apostle Paul showed that in his fleshy members he served the law of sin. And sin = death. Our flesh is ordained to perish at the end of this world.

Rom 7:21-25
I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
KJV

Later modern Bible translations try to get away from identifying sin hard-linked to the flesh. The KJV is accurate on that, which apparently is why some today want to get away from the KJV translation on this matter, and instead push man's philosophy.

This means of course, that the seed of sin was already present in Adam and Eve's flesh, even before they sinned. Corruption cannot inherit incorruption, like Apostle Paul said. The flesh body is for this present world; the spiritual body is for the world to come.

I agree with the passages you cite...though KJ is not unique in this matter.
However, I disagree with your last statement,quoting you here:
This means of course, that the seed of sin was already present in Adam and Eve's flesh, even before they sinned.
You neglect these Roman passages:
Romans 5:12:
12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned—
See it even more clearly here, so as not to misconstrue the wording...
Romans 5:15:
But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man,...
Reread all that chapter for clarity.

Adam's Flesh Could Not Be Saved

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Blood-bought

Confessional Lutheran

Oldbie

Watching and Praying Always

loves Jesus the Christ! ✝️

Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.

May you be blessed!

Well-Known Member

Traditional Liturgical Christian

Blood-bought

Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.

Blood-bought

Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.

Blood-bought

Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.

Blood-bought

Active Member

Truth-Lover

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency