Adam and Eve..

Tutorman said:

I do intend myth to mean lie as to this thread

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Okay, then, I've changed my vote to "other". My explanation is that I think Genesis 1 is mythological, in the sense of my earlier post.

I had to vote ‘other’ over the other choices. I am a creationist but don’t believe Genesis was meant to be read as a scientific exposay as to specifically lay out a timeline and answer how God created the cosmos, other than it was His will to speak it into existence but rather why we are in the predicament we are in.

Tutorman said:

Were Adam and Eve real or is it all a lie and myth.

Let's talk about that.

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Question: "Is the Adam and Eve story to be understood literally?"

Answer: Let us assume for a moment that the Adam and Eve story is not to be understood literally. What would be the result? Would Christianity remain essentially the same with a non-literal understanding of the story of Adam and Eve? No. In fact, it would have serious implications for virtually every tenet and doctrine of the Christian faith. If Adam was not a real man, then sin did not enter the world through one man as Romans 5:12 states. How, then, did sin enter world? Further, if the New Testament is wrong about how sin entered the world, what else is it wrong about? If Romans 5:12 is wrong, how do we know that the entirety of Romans 5:8–15 is not wrong? If the story of Adam and Eve is not to be taken literally—if they did not really exist—then there was no one to rebel, there was no fall into sin. Satan, the great deceiver, would like nothing better than for people to believe that the Bible should not be taken literally and that the story of the fall of man is a myth. Why? Because once we start denying parts of the Bible, we lose our trust in the Bible. Why should we believe anything God’s Word says if we cannot trust everything that it says?

Jesus taught that God created one man and one woman (Mark 10:6) and mentions Abel, a son of Adam and Eve in Luke 11:51. Was Jesus wrong in His beliefs? Or did Jesus know there were no literal Adam and Eve and He was simply accommodating His teaching to the beliefs of the people (i.e., lying)? If Jesus is wrong in His beliefs, He is not God. If Jesus is intentionally deceiving people, He is sinning and therefore cannot be the Savior (1 Peter 1:19).

That is why this is such a serious issue. To deny the literalness of Adam and Eve is to place oneself in opposition to Jesus and the apostle Paul. If one has the audacity to claim he is right and Jesus and Paul are wrong, then Jesus is a sinner, not God and not the Savior; the apostle Paul is a false prophet; and the Bible is not inspired, inerrant, or trustworthy.

The Bible clearly presents Adam and Eve as literal people who existed in a literal Garden of Eden. They literally rebelled against God, they literally believed Satan’s lie, and they were literally cast out of the Garden (Genesis 3:24). They had literal children, all of whom inherited the sin nature, and that nature was passed down to succeeding generations to this very day. Fortunately, God promised a literal Savior to redeem us from that sin nature (Genesis 3:15). That Savior is Jesus Christ, called the “last Adam” (1 Corinthians 15:45), who died on a literal cross and literally rose again. Those who believe in Christ will have literal salvation and spend eternity in a literal heaven.

Christians who deny the story of Adam and Eve essentially deny their own faith. Rejecting the literal interpretation of the Bible’s historical narratives is a slippery slope. If Adam and Eve did not exist, then were Cain and Abel not real? Did Seth exist, and did he father a godly line that led all the way to Abraham and eventually to Jesus Himself? Where in Luke’s genealogy (Luke 3:23–38) do the names stop referring to literal people and start referring to mythical characters? To dismiss Adam and Eve as non-literal is to deny the accuracy of Luke’s gospel, cast aspersions on Moses’ record, and remove the foundation of the rest of the Bible.

God’s Word claims to be true (Psalm 119:160). Jesus Christ declared God’s Word to be truth (John 17:17). All of God’s Word is God-breathed (2 Timothy 3:16-17). These declarations include the biblical account of Adam and Eve.

www.gotquestions.org/Adam-and-Eve-story.html

I believe it is a mistake to view the Adam and Eve story as "either or".

Either everything in the story is historically accurate or if it's not all historical, then it's just false/lies, with no truth to learn from the story.

Some Christians hold like yourself that Adam and Eve existed and no evolution took place.

Others (including the Catholic Church allowing their followers this view) view that Man is a product of evolution but still in some way sin entered the world through a Adam and Eve sometime in a evolutionary history.

Then of course their are those who find truths in the Adam and Eve story but believe those two are an allegory for ancient Man and the reality that we turned away from God and brought sin into the world.

I would think any Christian who genuinely reads 2 Timothy 4:3-4 and is honest with themselves would not want to allegorize the Scriptures in any way (Just because they do not like it) because they would realize that would mean that they have turned away from the truth (if they did so). For it is written,

3 "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables." (2 Timothy 4:3-4).

Tutorman said:

Were Adam and Eve real or is it all a lie and myth.

Let's talk about that.

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Some myths are not lies, and and can be more true or more real, or expressing truth that is more true or more real, than what what you currently think of now as true and/or real...

God Bless!

I remember a Pastor that one of my family members was close with. This Pastor believed the story of Jonah was all an allegory or metaphor. This blew my mind at the time (When I was new in my faith). For there is no indication in the text that suggests the story of Jonah or the story of Adam and Eve are allegories.

What is going on here is that folks simply do not like what the Bible says so they say.... "Oh, it's a metaphor, fable, or allegory."

Folks are attacking the God of the Bible when they say things in the Bible are a myth (When nothing is mentioned that it is a myth in any way). It's wrong and it is calling God a liar because what they believe God had written is a lie (myth).

Neogaia777 said:

Some myths are not lies, and and can be more true or more real, or expressing truth that is more true or more real, than what what you currently think of now as true and/or real...

God Bless!

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One of the definitions for the word "myth" is:

"a widely held but false belief or idea."

Jason0047 said:

I remember a Pastor that one of my family members was close with. This Pastor believed the story of Jonah was all an allegory or metaphor. This blew my mind at the time (When I was new in my faith). For there is no indication in the text that suggests the story of Jonah or the story of Adam and Eve are allegories.

What is going on here is that folks simply do not like what the Bible says so they say.... "Oh, it's a metaphor, fable, or allegory."

Folks are attacking the God of the Bible when they say things in the Bible are a myth (When nothing is mentioned that it is a myth in any way). It's wrong and it is calling God a liar because what they believe God had written is a lie (myth).

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I believe they actually happened somewhere, at some time...

And I'm not saying that is not important, but the "higher truth" they convey, could be talking about a reality (heaven) that is actually more real than what we think of now as real... Just a different kind of reality, and that is what I think the higher truths in the metaphor/allegory or whatever, are about for the most part... Why did Jesus speak in parables, especially when talking about the kingdom of God and would liken it or things in it, to things in or a story...? That they were "like" those things of that, or that concept or thought or idea, was "like" that but not actually that, or not quite, at least not in the way we understand right now...

And those truths or that truth is what's really important IMO...

God Bless!

Jason0047 said:

One of the definitions for the word "myth" is:

"a widely held but false belief or idea."

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Is a parable a myth...?

If you say something is like something else, but it not quite or exactly like or alike, that there are differences, and that the accurate picture we cannot see or know right now, are you lying when you tell us what it is like...? Or are you being deceptive, if we get the wrong or incomplete picture or idea...?

Neogaia777 said:

Is a parable a myth...?

If you say something is like something else, but it not quite or exactly like or alike, that there are differences, and that the accurate picture we cannot see or know right now, are you lying when you tell us what it is like...? Or are you being deceptive, if we get the wrong or incomplete picture or idea...?

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A parable is not a myth. All parables are basically another way of saying... "real world example." They are truth because Jesus was not into telling us fictional stories or lies. Jesus always told us the truth and He did not tell us about Hollywood stories of untruth.

Neogaia777 said:

I believe they actually happened somewhere, at some time...

And I'm not saying that is not important, but the "higher truth" they convey, could be talking about a reality (heaven) that is actually more real than what we think of now as real... Just a different kind of reality, and that is what I think the higher truths in the metaphor/allegory or whatever, are about for the most part... Why did Jesus speak in parables, especially when talking about the kingdom of God and would liken it or things in it, to things in or a story...? That they were "like" those things of that, or that concept or thought or idea, was "like" that but not actually that, or not quite, at least not in the way we understand right now...

And those truths or that truth is what's really important IMO...

God Bless!

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No. They were real and literal stories. The story of Jonah was 100% real. The story of Adam and Eve is 100% real. I mean, do you take the story of Jesus to be a myth?

Tutorman said:

Were Adam and Eve real or is it all a lie and myth.

Let's talk about that.

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The biblical story of the Garden of Eden is allegorical. The Garden represent righteousness. Adam and Eve are the Hebrew people. The creatures of Eden are the Gentiles, (Peter's vision in Acts). The Tree of Life is Jesus Christ and the Tree of Knowledge is the Law.

Genesis 2 begins with the 7th day, God's rest. Eden, the 2nd creation, is God's rest, righteousness. A place that man must be created. God's children have two creations, first is our birth and the second is our born again experience. As born again children of God we are free to eat of the Tree of Life, Jesus, and live forever. But, we should not partake of the Tree of Knowledge, the Law.

Adam and Eve, the Hebrew people, who had been living as part of the promise of faith which Abraham received. But, God called them out of Egypt and they failed to believe and trust God. They looked back to Egypt as Lot's wife looked back on Sodom.

The Hebrew people chose to place themselves under the law, eating the fruit of the Tre of Knowledge. Because of this they could not enter God's rest.

Adam was cursed with having to work the soil which produced thorns and brambles. This is man's useless works. We cannot justify ourselves through works. We need the Tree of Life, Jesus.

Adam and Eve we're kicked out of the Garden, God's rest, and an angel was placed to guard the way into Eden. No works can get man back into the Garden. Only through faith in the works of Jesus Christ can man be created righteous and find God's rest.

Reject works and embrace faith. Surrender to the power of God's Holy Spirit.

Amen

Jason0047 said:

No. They were real and literal stories. The story of Jonah was 100% real. The story of Adam and Eve is 100% real. I mean, do you take the story of Jesus to be a myth?

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Never said they weren't...

And, "no" to the second...

God Bless!

Jason0047 said:

A parable is not a myth. All parables are basically another way of saying... "real world example." They are truth because Jesus was not into telling us fictional stories or lies. Jesus always told us the truth and He did not tell us about Hollywood stories of untruth.

Click to expand...

I don't get what you mean about Hollywood, but... Was a parable and exact likeness to the thing...?

Jesus told parables to the crowds, he knew the crowds, knew that most had attention spans like hummingbirds, and were easily all to caught up in the world and things or the world and the things of worldly concern... But he wanted to throw them all a line, and the parables were his bait...

However, privately with his disciples he spoke plainly and explained all things plainly to them. I wish we had more of what he said and discussed with them with this...?

But, the crowds, required time with him like his apostles/disciples had, where they could just talk with him, ask him questions and have a real conversation with him about the parables and all the things of God... But, most would not, but some would respond and take the bait, and seek Christ...

Those who would seek the deeper explaining of the parables from him, and God in him, and go to him, and follow after him... Allow him time to explain and show you, some things can be explained and have to shown or even experienced... Develop a personal relationship with him...

God Bless!

Apologetic_Warrior said:

I think it becomes a problem when reading the New Testament for those claiming Adam and Eve were mythological or suggest anything contrary to real people. From genealogies in the Gospels to the words of Christ and Paul concerning them, it becomes a BIG problem, a stumbling block even.

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In the genealogy in Luke the list goes so in so, son of,so in so. Then it says Adam son of God. Adam is mentioned 8 times, repeatedly in Romans 5 in connection with original sin. In the Old testament Adam is used over 400 times synonomously with humanity just like all Jews are known by their fathers name Israel. Idont know why you cant get doctrinal clarity on this, if you an atheist materialist and dont believe it fine and dandy, but I think it's nearly ignorance of Scripture to say the Bible says otherwise. You believe it or you dont.

Tutorman said:

Were Adam and Eve real or is it all a lie and myth.

Let's talk about that.

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Adam is in Jesus geneaology. If Adam wasn't real, neither was Jesus.

Lk 3:
23 Now Jesus Himself began His ministry at about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, the son of Heli,
24 the son of Matthat, the son of Levi, the son of Melchi, the son of Janna, the son of Joseph,
...
37 the son of Methuselah, the son of Enoch, the son of Jared, the son of Mahalalel, the son of Cainan,
38 the son of Enos, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God.

Oh what I wouldn't give for some people that are open to the possibilities...

God Bless!

Chrétien de Troyes said:

Adam means "earth

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Adam means man