Adam and Eve, the Garden of Eden, the serpent and knowledge...

[OldWiseGuy]

Not that Eve was deceived by the Serpent but Adam willing took of the forbidden fruit.

Adam was nagged into eating it.

 

[Erik Nelson]

Deposing the Prince of this World

The traditional theology of the Church, both of the Old and New Testaments, has always understood that before their fall the angels were given various roles in the governing of the universe. The knowledge and power necessary for them to fulfill their offices in creation under God are a constituent part of their natures from the instant of their creation. It would appear that the devil or Satan is the angel to whom was given the care of human kingdoms and societies.​

If so, when he rebelled at the thought of humanity someday becoming more than Angels such as himself, he was already on scene, perhaps explaining why the forbidden tree so quickly appeared in the garden of Eden?

---

According to one interpretation. The idyllic garden of Eden represents. The. Era of hunting and gathering. Whereas the fall represents the beginning of Agriculture and the agricultural revolution.

Hunters and gatherers have to know what fruits and vegetables, they can eat and which are poisonous. So the 2 trees, one good and one bad, one edible and one poisonous, may reflect a deep memory of that hunting and gathering age.

Moreover. Agriculture depends on as people often say "the carrot and the stick". Promote what is desirable and cull what is not.

Accordingly, the Bible may be attributing the agricultural revolution. Via the principle of "the carrot and the stick" to Diabolical supernatural. Instruction. Compare Genesis, 6 and the Enoch story of the watchers. The fallen Angels, who instructed humanity after Eden in all manners of Sorceries. And. arcane Esoteric. Gnostic knowledges of civilization.

If so, then the Bible consistently attributes all knowledge of the Agricultural Revolution and the civilizations which the Agricultural Revolution spawned. All to Diabolical supernatural intervention.

 

[mark kennedy]

Deposing the Prince of this World

The traditional theology of the Church, both of the Old and New Testaments, has always understood that before their fall the angels were given various roles in the governing of the universe. The knowledge and power necessary for them to fulfill their offices in creation under God are a constituent part of their natures from the instant of their creation. It would appear that the devil or Satan is the angel to whom was given the care of human kingdoms and societies.​

If so, when he rebelled at the thought of humanity someday becoming more than Angels such as himself, he was already on scene, perhaps explaining why the forbidden tree so quickly appeared in the garden of Eden?

---

According to one interpretation. The idyllic garden of Eden represents. The. Era of hunting and gathering. Whereas the fall represents the beginning of Agriculture and the agricultural revolution.

Hunters and gatherers have to know what fruits and vegetables, they can eat and which are poisonous. So the 2 trees, one good and one bad, one edible and one poisonous, may reflect a deep memory of that hunting and gathering age.

Moreover. Agriculture depends on as people often say "the carrot and the stick". Promote what is desirable and cull what is not.

Accordingly, the Bible may be attributing the agricultural revolution. Via the principle of "the carrot and the stick" to Diabolical supernatural. Instruction. Compare Genesis, 6 and the Enoch story of the watchers. The fallen Angels, who instructed humanity after Eden in all manners of Sorceries. And. arcane Esoteric. Gnostic knowledges of civilization.

If so, then the Bible consistently attributes all knowledge of the Agricultural Revolution and the civilizations which the Agricultural Revolution spawned. All to Diabolical supernatural intervention.

Knowledge belongs to God, God wanted us to learn how to be good stewards of the earth and it's bountiful resources. Something has went wrong, we have gotten to prolific in our development of the ability of the earth to sustain us, greed has taken it's toll. Knowledge begins and ends with the fear of the Lord, if you can get that part right, the rest happens naturally.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Knowledge belongs to God, God wanted us to learn how to be good stewards of the earth and it's bountiful resources. Something has went wrong, we have gotten to prolific in our development of the ability of the earth to sustain us, greed has taken it's toll. Knowledge begins and ends with the fear of the Lord, if you can get that part right, the rest happens naturally.

We've gotten too prolific in our population growth. In our efforts to stay one step ahead of hunger we have overproduced just about every food known to man, abandoned the proper care of the soil and replaced it with poisonous chemicals and plants that rely on them. We're "too smart by half".

 

[Erik Nelson]

Knowledge belongs to God, God wanted us to learn how to be good stewards of the earth and it's bountiful resources. Something has went wrong, we have gotten to prolific in our development of the ability of the earth to sustain us, greed has taken it's toll. Knowledge begins and ends with the fear of the Lord, if you can get that part right, the rest happens naturally.

Please cite scripture?

 

[1213]

…About Adam and Eve, they had no knowledge at all whatsoever of evil, completely foreign concept to them...

... And after they ate, they got "flooded" and probably very overwhelmed with a knowledge of "all evil" or "all good and evil

Interesting thing is that Bible doesn’t say they didn’t know anything about good and evil. And also, God didn’t say the tree gives knowledge. It was the serpent who said so and it is possible that he lied. It is possible that the tree didn’t give anything, but because they ate it, they also learned what it means to reject God.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Interesting thing is that Bible doesn’t say they didn’t know anything about good and evil.

It's clear from the account in Genesis 3 that they were naïve concerning good and evil.

 

[Halbhh]

It's clear from the account in Genesis 3 that they were naïve concerning good and evil.

Yes, unaware of the fraughtness of being naked for instance. It's a good question whether having assumed the authority for themselves to judge good and evil, whether they did even a somewhat semi-competent job at it though, or just perhaps poorly, though I speculate.

 

[Erik Nelson]

knowledge (Hebrew da'ath) is mentioned in unfavorably Genesis 2 (J), favorably in Exodus (P), unfavorably in Numbers, Deuteronomy, Joshua (E, D)

(utilized The Bible with Sources Revealed by Richard Elliott Friedman)

 

[Neogaia777]

It is the "knowledge" or "knowing, or the judging between, what is good and/or what is evil, with, not the tree of knowledge, but the tree of the knowledge or knowing or judging the difference between, what is good and what is evil...

That knowledge or knowing is supposed to be for God alone... It does not mean, "all knowledge is bad or evil" or anything like that at all...

God Bless!

 

[mark kennedy]

It is the "knowledge" or "knowing, or the judging between, what is good and/or what is evil, with, not the tree of knowledge, but the tree of the knowledge or knowing or judging the difference between, what is good and what is evil...

That knowledge or knowing is supposed to be for God alone... It does not mean, "all knowledge is bad or evil" or anything like that at all...

God Bless!

At some point it means skill, the artificers of the Tabernacle were given special knowledge to work all kind of crafts. I get the distinct impression the term implies skills, but there are other variations on the meaning.

 

[Halbhh]

At some point it means skill, the artificers of the Tabernacle were given special knowledge to work all kind of crafts. I get the distinct impression the term implies skills, but there are other variations on the meaning.

Sure, knowledge in general is knowledge in general. All kinds. When to fish, when to plant, when to harvest, where to find deer. On and on. But "the knowledge of good and evil" is from context just what it sounds like: becoming aware, judging, what is 'good' and what is 'bad'. In the context we learn that they immediately realized their nakedness and wanted to hide it from the Lord, which has to do with realizing the potential for wrongdoing via the body. This isn't general knowledge such as of how to make tools, etc., but knowledge about what actions can cause good or bad outcomes. It's a kind of knowledge where we ought to entirely rely on God to say what is good and evil in those terms, and not take it upon ourselves to do instead of trusting Him on such. But, I think it was inevitable that they would fall, and God knew, and planned ahead of time for us to have a way to be rescued from our wrongs we would do when deciding for ourselves what is the good, instead of His way.

 

[Tone]

The tree of the knowledge of good and evil is man's religion, which is patterned after the seed of the serpent.

The tree of life is YHWH's Way...being born of Him and bearing fruit.

 

[1213]

It's clear from the account in Genesis 3 that they were naïve concerning good and evil.

But some idea of good they had, because:

When the woman saw that the tree was good for food…
Gen. 3:6

 

[OldWiseGuy]

But some idea of good they had, because:

When the woman saw that the tree was good for food…
Gen. 3:6

"Good" isn't the best translation as she hadn't eaten it yet. What she saw was that it had a pleasing appearance, as likely did the other fruit in the garden. The main thrust of the narrative is that she had a desire for knowledge.

 

[Neogaia777]

"Good" isn't the best translation as she hadn't eaten it yet. What she saw was that it had a pleasing appearance, as likely did the other fruit in the garden. The main thrust of the narrative is that she had a desire for knowledge.

Desire for this mysterious, and all of the sudden very attractive fruit, (due to the serpent), of this "knowledge of, or knowing between good and evil", that apparently God was keeping from them, and that would them like or equal to Him, ect...

But the fruit was not and has never been good for us, for the ways in which we judge, we will be judged ourselves, and it causes "death" "for us", (which was another mysterious foreign concept to them)... God knew that, but they did not...

But, did Adam know the fruit from that tree was "bad" in any way, before they ate of it, and was not tempted (himself) like scripture says...? Cause, if so, how did he know that...?

God Bless!

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Desire for this mysterious, and all of the sudden very attractive fruit, (due to the serpent), of this "knowledge of, or knowing between good and evil", that apparently God was keeping from them, and that would them like or equal to Him, ect...

But the fruit was not and has never been good for us, for the ways in which we judge, we will be judged ourselves, and it causes "death" "for us", (which was another mysterious foreign concept to them)... God knew that, but they did not...

But, did Adam know the fruit from that tree was "bad" in any way, before they ate of it, and was not tempted (himself) like scripture says...? Cause, if so, how did he know that...?

God Bless!

Adam 'was not deceived' but got nagged into eating it anyway. But it was God's intention from the start.

 

[Neogaia777]

Adam 'was not deceived' but got nagged into eating it anyway. But it was God's intention from the start.

If he was not deceived, nor tempted, but still saw it as bad, how did he know "bad" from "good" not having eaten of that tree...?

God Bless!

 

[Tone]

If he was not deceived, nor tempted, but still saw it as bad, how did he know "bad" from "good" not having eaten of that tree...?

God Bless!

Because the Creator had already told him what not to do for his own good, just like Torah...that was Torah for them, when He said:
"but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die." (Genesis 2:17)

Someone earlier in this thread said that the tree of the knowledge of good and evil is Torah, which I don't agree with. The Torah was Yah's command not to eat of that tree.

 

[mark kennedy]

Sure, knowledge in general is knowledge in general. All kinds. When to fish, when to plant, when to harvest, where to find deer. On and on. But "the knowledge of good and evil" is from context just what it sounds like: becoming aware, judging, what is 'good' and what is 'bad'. In the context we learn that they immediately realized their nakedness and wanted to hide it from the Lord, which has to do with realizing the potential for wrongdoing via the body. This isn't general knowledge such as of how to make tools, etc., but knowledge about what actions can cause good or bad outcomes. It's a kind of knowledge where we ought to entirely rely on God to say what is good and evil in those terms, and not take it upon ourselves to do instead of trusting Him on such. But, I think it was inevitable that they would fall, and God knew, and planned ahead of time for us to have a way to be rescued from our wrongs we would do when deciding for ourselves what is the good, instead of His way.

There are at least two words in the Hebrew for knowledge, one more often translated wisdom. Knowledge is more like an enlightened understanding where as, wisdom is more like an application of knowledge, or a skill system.

Wisdom (H2451 חָכְמָה chokmah)
Knowledge (H1847 דַּעַת da`ath)

It's not unusual for them to be used as a parallelism, two very similar words used synonymously.

And he hath filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, H2451 in understanding, and in knowledge 1847, and in all manner of workmanship (Exodus 35:31)

The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: H1847 but fools despise wisdom H2451 and instruction. (Proverbs 1:7)
​

My point is knowledge itself was never the culprit, it was what kind of knowledge was offered by the forbidden fruit.

Grace and peace,
Mark