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Featured Adam and Eve, the Garden of Eden, the serpent and knowledge...

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Neogaia777, Nov 28, 2018.

  1. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    I posted this/these in another forum thread about Adam and Eve, and the Garden of Eden, with the serpents temptation, and we kind of were discussing "knowledge" in general, and wanted to make it into a post and get your guys thoughts on it...?

    Remember it was the "knowledge of good and evil" or more specifically "thinking you can judge (between) good and evil, by your own (limited) knowledge of good and evil", that was "bad", or even "deadly" even, NOT knowledge in general...

    God Bless!

    About Adam and Eve, they had no knowledge at all whatsoever of evil, completely foreign concept to them... And what the serpent said to them (out of jealousy, hatred, anger, wrath, and envy) (over and about man and with God even also) Anyway, made them (Adam and Eve) to where they basically might have said back to him, "So, your saying we have to have a knowledge of this of this whole evil "thing" (actually good and evil, for without knowing some evil, neither can you really know what good is even either) (they didn't know what it was, not even remotely or even vaguely) Anyway, (to the serpent) "your saying we have to have a knowledge of this of this whole evil "thing" in order to be like our God...? And, he might have said, "Yes, that is what I am saying."

    And they took the bait, knowing nothing, and the serpent probably "laughed all the way" (to the bank) after that, knowing they just gave to the world to him... And after they ate, they got "flooded" and probably very overwhelmed with a knowledge of "all evil" or "all good and evil", and they became very, not only ashamed by some of it, but extremely, extremely, very, very "afraid" never having ever felt fear or guilt or regret or shame before, ever... "It" was all very much and completely "foreign" (concepts) to them, but they got tricked or duped or took the bait, and the rest is history, so to speak, up to now or "today"...

    What would be the harm in it, they might have thought (at first) (probably not even knowing what "harm" even was)...?

    Well, they found out, didn't they...

    I think, (about my post I replied to in this (above)) that the knowledge of knowing the difference (like God does), between all good, and all evil, in a world of both good and evil, anyway, I believe all of that kind of knowledge is much more vast, deep, and is much more complicated and complex, than all the deepest knowledge, of all the deepest mysteries, of this entire universe, but, that my be just me...

    Cause it seems that way to me...

    Which might make any kind of accurate or any kind of "just judgments" by us, quite impossible, really... And we'd do very well to both know and remember that... Take it from Adam and Eve...

    God Bless!

    Comments...?
     
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  2. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

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    I think that you will enjoy this writing that is quoted in posts #1 and 2 here:

    A message from Adam to all of humanity?! Does this sound legitimate to you???

    I also recommend The Book of Adam and Eve that is quite ancient.

    Forgotten Books of Eden: First Book of Adam and Eve

    .....

     
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  3. Halbhh

    Halbhh The wonder and awe of His Creation! Supporter

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    To take upon oneself to judge what is good and evil, to be the Judge for ourselves, instead of trusting God to Judge, only -- this is not something we should do, not any more than a toddler should presume to judge better than his/her parent.

    They were fooled, yes, but the crucial thing they did wrong was to trust the serpent/world/lust for power instead of trusting God. Trusting their own judgement above His. They bought the line--

    1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?”

    2 The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’ ”

    4 “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. 5 “For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”
    -----------

    Trusting this urge above God, they broke trust with God. Judging for ourselves, being judged by each other -- this wrongful judgement is fraught, for us, and endlessly uncomfortable.

    If we would truly trust God instead, He "will repay each according to what they have done", and that is good enough.
    Romans 2:6 God "will repay each one according to his deeds."

    Of course, this is why any that have not should rush to confess and fall on His Mercy, through Christ, His Amazing Grace!
     
  4. OldWiseGuy

    OldWiseGuy A person of low ability. Supporter

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    All that happened in the garden was planned by God. It couldn't have gone any other way. It should be noted that the kingdom of God will be restored at the same time the earth is restored. Could it be that the coming final destruction of the earth at the hand of man is a physical reenactment of the destruction of God's spiritual kingdom due to the rebellion of angels? The similarities are...uncanny. :eek:
     
  5. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    God the true Father, yes, but why did YHWH not seem to know or was surprised or shocked by it, is the question...?

    Yes, they are and I agree...

    God Bless!
     
  6. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    I wonder if this knowledge of good and evil, especially evil, is reflective of the first humans who became, or at the point when, humans first became, "more than animal" (or some might say "less than animal) (but you know what I mean)...

    Animals and when humans might have been once like animal, and animals have no knowledge of good and/or evil, they just "are"... And, "Are" (or were) (just) "what they are", or what they were, or were meant to be at that time, until that all changed of course...

    If we were to apply this to evolution, at what point in history do you think that changed, or how do you think it came about...? (for humans or humanity)...?

    God Bless!
     
  7. JazzHands

    JazzHands Active Member Supporter

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    I often wonder if what happened to Adam/Eve was actually meant to transpire - a stepping stone as it were towards eventual enlightenment. Without making any legitimate assertions, I always thought it odd that the Lord would bring attention to Adam/Eve of the tree of knowledge of good and evil before taking a stroll "in the cool of the day". Isn't there a very specific period in a child's life when they start to become curious and analytical? I often wonder if the price of critical thought is self-consciousness hence "their eyes were open and they saw that they were naked".

    I tend to reflect on that hypothesis because it goes someway towards explaining why my adolescent years were so challenging and why the path can seem so fraught. It occurred to me that the Lord's 'judgement' might have been more of a 'pep talk' than a punitive decree, like the talk your Dad gives you when you turn 18 and are expected to 'make your own way' in the world. In any case, I finally concluded that if I ever want to make it back to gate whence the beacon shines, I have to have faith that our better natures by virtue of the Lords design will see us through.
     
  8. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    At what does a child or a baby become "self-aware" or self-conscious and can reflect in a reasonable and analytical way and manner, (develops the ability of critical thought) and if it is at that point that that (true consciousness or self-awareness) happens or not...?

    And/or at a "higher level" or at higher levels (and perhaps lower levels also) is it, or does it all become "relative" or not...?

    God Bless!
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2018
  9. OldWiseGuy

    OldWiseGuy A person of low ability. Supporter

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    I can remember like it was yesterday when the "knowledge of...evil" came into my 5 year old mind like a thunderbolt.
     
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  10. JazzHands

    JazzHands Active Member Supporter

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    I can't say for sure when self-awareness comes into play though I think the seed was always present. Whatever the catalyst, I think criticism and by extension, critical discernment plays a big part. As social beings it makes sense that we should feel so predisposed but it does present a number of genuine challenges in regards to ascertaining our own underlying identities. Social and peer-group pressures tend to hamper our personal growth for the sake of expediency and that's why I think the Bible is so important, it forces us to reflect on the true meaning of life. The path is narrow and I frequently stumble and fall but there is no better motivation than the promise of redemption. Actually, you get glimpses of it all the time, like the reward you get from cheering up a friend or consoling a love one - completely changes your outlook.
     
  11. JazzHands

    JazzHands Active Member Supporter

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    If it's not too presumptuous, could I ask what form it took? Because the very concept of 'evil' is still one that I have trouble conceptualising in real terms.
     
  12. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    I think it would do good for many of us to get off alone and by ourselves for a while sometimes, maybe just with a Bible and pen and paper or something, at times, if anything just to gain some perspective on ourselves, life, ect...

    God Bless!
     
  13. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    Me too...?

    God Bless!
     
  14. JazzHands

    JazzHands Active Member Supporter

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    Amen!!!

    That's the problem with contemporary lifestyles... too much noise, literally and figuratively.
     
  15. JazzHands

    JazzHands Active Member Supporter

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    Oh... speaking of which, if you get a chance, you should definitely watch this program. It was a BBC documentary following 5 men who spent a month in a Benedictine Abbey and how they had to come to terms with silent reflection... fascinating!!

     
  16. OldWiseGuy

    OldWiseGuy A person of low ability. Supporter

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    It was a sexual innuendo that an older neighbor boy said about a neighbor girl. Although I didn't fully understand it at that age I was overwhelmed with a feeling of shame as I thought about it, and I knew it was wrong. Up until then I had never experienced such a feeling.
     
  17. JazzHands

    JazzHands Active Member Supporter

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    Aaaahhh yes, I think I had a similar experience when I was about 12 (I was a late starter) when I saw two of my classmates snogging in the common room... I was so embarrassed I could have lit up the entire floor in a fetching ruby hue. I'm not sure I felt it was 'evil', just that I was way out of my depth. But now you mention it, that was probably one of my earliest memories of being completely self-conscious.
     
  18. Pneuma3

    Pneuma3 Well-Known Member

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    Man was created in a state of grace

    The tree of knowledge of good and evil is the law, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
    The day A & E broke Gods commandment not to eat was the day they were placed under the law which is a ministration of death and it is this death by law that that they died the day they ate thereof.

    Thus by one man death came into the world.

    However even in death God gave a way for man to return to that state of grace they were created in because the law is also our schoolmaster that leads to Christ.

    Thus death is not the end for man but a schoolmaster that leads us back to grace in Christ Jesus our Lord.
     
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  19. mark kennedy

    mark kennedy Natura non facit saltum Supporter

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    This gave me fits for a long time until I started to realize, the allure was wisdom. Wisdom in the OT is actually the application of knowledge, it's a skill set. Now, after the fall of man, our Adamic nature had the capacity to wield evil like a weapon, to blend good and evil, thus conceal the malevolent intent. Indeed, the serpent is subtle above all the beasts of the field, which btw, God was teaching them starting with naming the living creatures God brought before him. Knowledge is a very basic human drive, even stemming deep into the subconscious mind. In the end the practical ends and crafty devices we accumulate over time poison our hearts toward the things of God (Romans 7:17-21).
     
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  20. The Gryphon

    The Gryphon Well-Known Member

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    Not that Eve was deceived by the Serpent but Adam willing took of the forbidden fruit.
     
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