Adam and Eve incorrectly blamed?

[Pooty]

I've never really been able to figure this out...

Adam and Eve, before eating of the tree of good and evil did not KNOW what was good or evil, or right or wrong. Since to 'obey' is 'good' and to disobeyis 'evil'. Now, when they were told they could eat of the tree by the snake they did. not only because they did not and could not understand that the snake was evil, and should not be obeyed and that god was good, and should be obeyed. So they ate from the tree not realizing that what they were doing was wrong. Since disobeying could only be considered wrong by someone who knew of good and evil so they could construct morals and values. So, God punished Adam and Eve for doing something they didn't know was wrong...

What do you think?

 

[Infinity's Dice]

That's never made much sense to me, either, Pooty. I've heard arguements put forth from a hardline Calvinistic perspective, that God is just becuase God makes the rules and defines "justness" and "nonjustness," and the existance (or non-existance_ of an objective sense of "right and wrong" would in this case be irrelevant. I'd like to see what replies this gets.

 

[Apologist]

So, God punished Adam and Eve for doing something they didn't know was wrong...

What do you think?

Genesis 3:1-3 says:


"Now the serpent was more cunning than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said to the woman, “Has God indeed said, ‘You shall not eat of every tree of the garden’?”

 And the woman said to the serpent, “We may eat the fruit of the trees of the garden; but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God has said, ‘You shall not eat it, nor shall you touch it, lest you die.’ ”​

How can you say they did not know what was good or evil?
I believe they knew the difference in good and evil, they were just tempted by a lie that they would know good and evil the way God does; in perfect holiness. God told them the consequences of eating or even touching the fruit so they knew to obey God was good and to disobey him was evil.

 

[Pooty]

How were they to know which was the correct one and which was the deciever? Since, as I still feel they did not know good and evil, since it makes no refrences to good/evil judgement. Who would you believe? Some guy who comes down from the sky or a talking snake? They're both equally weird to someone with childlike innocence. Children can be conned into being abducted by people, because they're innocent. Does that make it the child's fault for what happens?

 

[love&forgiveness]

i posted this on a topic on freewill but ithink it maybe of some help here.adam and eve never really had free will as we know it today.they would have obeyed and trusted God,it was satan that gave them another choice and put doubt in their mind and then they turned from God and went the way of sin being satan.

Gen 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

after this all mankind had freewill for they knew good and evil,but in the garden they were perfect and innocent for there was no good and evil only the word of God,yes they had the choice of trusting satan but they knew not what was right and what was wrong,but they did know the one who had created all for them,and would have obeyed Him forever,but satan called him a liar and they believed him over their Creator,they never really chose right or wrong it's just they trusted the creature over the Creator.
you could say God never gave us free will satan did,well gave us the choice of sin anyway.a choice we could have lived perfectly without.
God bless.
paul

 

[Rainbow.]

Temptation lead Adam and Eve to sin, they had everything they ever needed in their garden and only had to live by one rule God gave them....Do not touch the fruit on the tree of knowledge .
In their hearts they must have known it was wrong, as they repeated the direct order God gave them to the Serpent.
Also they did this when God was not there with them. (If you get what i mean)
Why, if they thought it was not a sin, didn't they try the fruit in Gods presence?

 

[Rainbow.]

i posted this on a topic on freewill but ithink it maybe of some help here.adam and eve never really had free will as we know it today.they would have obeyed and trusted God,it was satan that gave them another choice and put doubt in their mind and then they turned from God and went the way of sin being satan.

Gen 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

after this all mankind had freewill for they knew good and evil,but in the garden they were perfect and innocent for there was no good and evil only the word of God,yes they had the choice of trusting satan but they knew not what was right and what was wrong,but they did know the one who had created all for them,and would have obeyed Him forever,but satan called him a liar and they believed him over their Creator,they never really chose right or wrong it's just they trusted the creature over the Creator.
you could say God never gave us free will satan did,well gave us the choice of sin anyway.a choice we could have lived perfectly without.
God bless.
paul

I agree with much of what you said. Good points

 

[Pooty]

It was probably just because they didn't really think about it.
"This guy says we shouldn't do this.. we should listen."
"This guy says we should... let's listen to him"

 

[Apologist]

How were they to know which was the correct one and which was the deciever? Since, as I still feel they did not know good and evil, since it makes no refrences to good/evil judgement.

So are you assuming that Adam and Eve did not know who God was?

Who would you believe? Some guy who comes down from the sky or a talking snake? They're both equally weird to someone with childlike innocence. Children can be conned into being abducted by people, because they're innocent. Does that make it the child's fault for what happens?

First of all God is not "some guy who comes down out the sky" as God is omnipresent (everywhere at once). And as stated above what makes you think they had no idea who God was? Adam named the animals and spoke with God and we can safely surmise that he spoke to Eve about these things also. She knew who the Creator was without a doubt.

 

[Andre]

They knew what good and bad was because they knew that if they ate of they tree they would die so for that reason they were afraid to eat, they knew that die=bad (‘You shall not eat it, nor shall you touch it, lest you die.) The serpent deceived them into believing that God lied to them when He said that they would die.

 

[love&forgiveness]

they knew God was their Creator,that's all the really knew,the word of God,they knew nothing about good and evil,satan then came along and told them them not to trust their Creator but to trust him,so they went against the one who created them and everything for them to believe another who was also created of Him.they doubted the Creator and believed the created,they doubted the word of God.

 

[Pooty]

I don't note any real connection between the fear of death and the obeying. There's no real evidence to show that they weren't obeying for the sole fact that someone told them to do something and they were innocent enough to unquestioningly follow.

 

[Apologist]

I don't note any real connection between the fear of death and the obeying. There's no real evidence to show that they weren't obeying for the sole fact that someone told them to do something and they were innocent enough to unquestioningly follow.

I think it takes a leap of faith to believe that.
Adam and Eve were created in the image of God meaning that God's moral attributes were within them such as reason, goodness, kindness, etc.
They were fully developed adults not infants with no sense of right and wrong.

 

[Pooty]

And thus that question ends. I agree that it is a leap of faith, that's the problem when the people who wrote it down are dead. You can't ask them what they were trying to convey when they wrote it the way they did.

 

[love&forgiveness]

God isn't someone,He is God the almighty powerful Creator,they knew he was God and what he was capable of,they knew that they themselves had no power like His,why should they question God He gave them life He gave them all things in their perfect natural state,everything was good they knew no difference.why should they trust the snake that had no power,over the one who had all,they doubted and took their trust away from God knowing of His power and greatness,and believed,a powerless creature,i think this was a great insult to God.

 

[Philosoft]

They knew what good and bad was because they knew that if they ate of they tree they would die so for that reason they were afraid to eat, they knew that die=bad (‘You shall not eat it, nor shall you touch it, lest you die.)

How did they even know what dying was? Presumably, they had never seen anything die.

The serpent deceived them into believing that God lied to them when He said that they would die.

Doesn't being deceived absolve them of at least some guilt?

And can someone tell me what that stupid tree was doing there in the first place?

 

[Andre]

Genesis 2
16 The LORD God commanded the man, saying, "From any tree of the garden you may eat freely;
17 but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die."

You don't have to know good from evil to know that death is not something that you want to happen, it's an instinct, animals don't know good from evil, but they are afraid of predators because they don't want to die.

 

[love&forgiveness]

they probably understood death to mean no longer existing as they were,and as everything was perfect if they believed this,why would they not want to carry on living.

 

[Infinity's Dice]

Genesis 3:1-3 says:

"Now the serpent was more cunning than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said to the woman, “Has God indeed said, ‘You shall not eat of every tree of the garden’?”

And the woman said to the serpent, “We may eat the fruit of the trees of the garden; but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God has said, ‘You shall not eat it, nor shall you touch it, lest you die.’ ”

<Sarcasm> A walking, talking snake, seeking to corrupt and subdue all of mankind. I'd say it sounded implausible, but then we wouldn't have an explanation for the existence of politicians. But of course, god ****** the snakes of the world to crawl on their bellies, didn't he? And to eat dust for all of their lives? So much for that theory. So where are the talking, dust-eating, clever snakes? Please don't answer this bit. Note that the word Sarcasm is enclosed like some bit of HTML? Riiiight.

</Sarcasm>

How can you say they did not know what was good or evil?

As Pooty already pointed out, the knowledge of good and evil was apparently derived from eating the fruit from the tree at the center of the Garden. In other words, they could not know that it was immoral to have eaten from the tree before they actually ate from it.



The verse you quoted shows that they knew what God had commanded, but this does not show that they knew it was wrong to disobey what God wanted.

I believe they knew the difference in good and evil, they were just tempted by a lie that they would know good and evil the way God does; in perfect holiness.

You believe they knew the difference. This does not show that they, in fact, knew the difference. May as well quote a bit more from your Bible.

4 "You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman. 5 "For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

I’m not sure if the snake really lied here. Did the tree give them knowledge of good and evil? Yes. Was it godlike knowledge? Who can say? Claiming that our ability to work through ethics and morals is inferior to Gods can only be taken on faith.

God told them the consequences of eating or even touching the fruit so they knew to obey God was good and to disobey him was evil.

Again, dogma. Support your claim.



One other thing, supposedly, the threat of death was supposed to have been a big incentive against eating from the tree, right? How would Adam and Eve have known what “Death” meant if death never existed before they ate from the tree?

Death, where hath thy sting?

 

[Apologist]

As Pooty already pointed out, the knowledge of good and evil was apparently derived from eating the fruit from the tree at the center of the Garden. In other words, they could not know that it was immoral to have eaten from the tree before they actually ate from it.



The verse you quoted shows that they knew what God had commanded, but this does not show that they knew it was wrong to disobey what God wanted.

You have no way to prove that they had no concept of right and wrong except by speculation.
Genesis says that after God created the world he saw that it was good.
He surely would have taught his crown of creation what good and evil was.

One other thing, supposedly, the threat of death was supposed to have been a big incentive against eating from the tree, right? How would Adam and Eve have known what “Death” meant if death never existed before they ate from the tree?

You are only assuming they had no knowledge of what death was.
Since they walked with God it is completely safe to say that God taught them what death was even though it had not happened to anything yet.