Acts and Decrees of the Synod of Jerusalem 1672

[MrJim]

Calvinism As Heresy | Glory to God for All Things
Synod of Jerusalem (1672) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I stumbled across this Synod in a discussion about Calvinism on another forum~very impressed with the simple way it was presented. I would presume correctly this is still considered an accurate decree?

(Article 18 has a "purgatory"-ish flavor to it though I may not understand that end of Orthodoxy enough.)

 

[Gnarwhal]

Interesting stuff, I wonder why I hadn't heard of it before...

 

[ArmyMatt]

I think so

 

[Nephi]

It isn't exactly authoritative on the entire Church or anything, but AFAIK it represents sound Orthodoxy in response to Calvinism. Certain things aren't necessarily as limited as it may seem (e.g. 7 sacraments - we may in fact recognize more, but these seven are minimal).

 

[buzuxi02]

This council was held to refute point by point the probable forgery attributed to Pat. Cyril Lukaris. this forgery was spread by the RC Congregation of the Propaganda Fide. This fine organization was responsible for turning the Antiochans and Syriac monophysites into Uniates starting in the early 1600's.

They also are responsible for today's misguided assumption by Orthodox Christians who think Constantinople "hellenized" Antioch and Alexandria against their will. These claims all originate from RC sources affiliated with Syrian Unia. Had to bring this up as this claim was made in a recent thread of ours.

 

[Nephi]

This fine organization was responsible for turning the Antiochans and Syriac monophysites into Uniates starting in the early 1600's.

Might I ask why you chose to refer to the Syrians as "monophysites" - a widely recognized pejorative?

 

[Lukaris]

Might I ask why you chose to refer to the Syrians as "monophysites" - a widely recognized pejorative?

It is not prejorative, I think Buzuxi is referring to the Melkites who are in communion with Rome who I guess went from monophysite to in union w/ Rome. It is also sad that it seems that Patriarch Lukaris was perceived as a Calvinist for centuries when he was not & became a saint a few years ago. I am Antiochian & despite the split, the Melktes & Antiochian Orthodox have generally good relations.

 

[Nephi]

It is not prejorative, I think Buzuxi is referring to the Melkites who are in communion with Rome who I guess went from monophysite to in union w/ Rome. It is also sad that it seems that Patriarch Lukaris was perceived as a Calvinist for centuries when he was not & became a saint a few years ago. I am Antiochian & despite the split, the Melktes & Antiochian Orthodox have generally good relations.

Calling the OO "monophysite," in the sense that it is almost always used, is pejorative. It is no different than referring to EO as Nestorian.

 

[jckstraw72]

well, the EO do not affirm 2 persons, whereas the OO do affirm one nature. Eutychianism is not the only brand of monophysitism.

 

[Nephi]

well, the EO do not affirm 2 persons, whereas the OO do affirm one nature. Eutychianism is not the only brand of monophysitism.

Monophysite as it is usually used is synonomous with Eutychianism. The OO find monophysite an offensive slur because of it, and the historical usage of the word by EO and RC has been Eutychianism only.

 

[truefiction1]

Calvinism As Heresy[bless and do not curse]|[bless and do not curse]Glory to God for All Things
Synod of Jerusalem (1672) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I stumbled across this Synod in a discussion about Calvinism on another forum~very impressed with the simple way it was presented. I would presume correctly this is still considered an accurate decree?

(Article 18 has a "purgatory"-ish flavor to it though I may not understand that end of Orthodoxy enough.)

I don't like the way that Article 18 or Article 16 is written. These both seem to be espousing the Western ideas regarding the afterlife and original sin, and I have no idea why such teachings would be in there. If these things are Orthodox, then I think I'm probably a heretic.

 

[Lukaris]

Monophysite as it is usually used is synonomous with Eutychianism. The OO find monophysite an offensive slur because of it, and the historical usage of the word by EO and RC has been Eutychianism only.

OK, sorry I just thought the term was being used for a theological clarification. It is hard to keep up on thes matters, I remember an Eastern Catholic attending a vespers service at our church & in conversation I said, "oh, you are in union with Rome." He said, "yes, I am Uniate." Later, I found out that is also prejorative but an Eastern Catholic & I did not know that when we spoke to each other.

 

[Nephi]

OK, sorry I just thought the term was being used for a theological clarification. It is hard to keep up on thes matters, I remember an Eastern Catholic attending a vespers service at our church & in conversation I said, "oh, you are in union with Rome." He said, "yes, I am Uniate." Later, I found out that is also prejorative but an Eastern Catholic & I did not know that when we spoke to each other.

No problem. Uniate does seem to vary like you said which is why I wasn't inclined to decry its use. OO on the other hand, I have never seen to be anything but negative toward monophysite.

 

[Lukaris]

I don't like the way that Article 18 or Article 16 is written. These both seem to be espousing the Western ideas regarding the afterlife and original sin, and I have no idea why such teachings would be in there. If these things are Orthodox, then I think I'm probably a heretic.

I think Kallistos Ware in his book: The Orthodox Church, says that theological understanding declined for a generation after the martyrdom of Cyril Lukaris. Thank goodness he was able to have a printing press smuggled into Constantinople during his lifetime.

 

[Nephi]

I think Kallistos Ware in his book: The Orthodox Church, says that theological understanding declined for a generation after the martyrdom of Cyril Lukaris. Thank goodness he was able to have a printing press smuggled into Constantinople during his lifetime.

And isn't that around the time of the "Western Captivity?" I believe this is around the same time that Orthodoxy saw "certificates of absolution (forgiveness of sins)" being given for donations of money.

 

[truefiction1]

I think Kallistos Ware in his book: The Orthodox Church, says that theological understanding declined for a generation after the martyrdom of Cyril Lukaris. Thank goodness he was able to have a printing press smuggled into Constantinople during his lifetime.

Ahhh, so maybe I'm not a full blown heretic afterall, at least not yet. Whew! Thankyou.

 

[Lukaris]

And isn't that around the time of the "Western Captivity?" I believe this is around the same time that Orthodoxy saw "certificates of absolution (forgiveness of sins)" being given for donations of money.

This is in the 17th c., is this like a captivity of manipulation? Bishop Ware, does indicate that purgatorial theology was used to undermine the alleged confession attributed to Cyril Lukaris (which seems to hardly make sense since he had cordial relations with the Anglicans who were anti Calvinist)..

 

[jckstraw72]

the wording about Original Sin certainly has a Catholic sound, but it never actually expresses a Catholic meaning of the term. and the stuff about the afterlife seems to be in line with what many Fathers say. We believe that people can be moved from Hell to Paradise before the Second Coming, with the help of our prayers, good deeds, etc.

 

[Dorothea]

Calvinism As Heresy[bless and do not curse]|[bless and do not curse]Glory to God for All Things
Synod of Jerusalem (1672) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I stumbled across this Synod in a discussion about Calvinism on another forum~very impressed with the simple way it was presented. I would presume correctly this is still considered an accurate decree?

(Article 18 has a "purgatory"-ish flavor to it though I may not understand that end of Orthodoxy enough.)

That part about Pat. Lukaris...It's in the book on the History of the Church by Fr. John Morris called THE HISTORIC CHURCH. A page or about 5 paragraphs on it, I believe. I can't recommend this book enough!!!

PS: sorry for the big type. I couldn't help myself.

 

[ArmyMatt]

the wording about Original Sin certainly has a Catholic sound, but it never actually expresses a Catholic meaning of the term. and the stuff about the afterlife seems to be in line with what many Fathers say. We believe that people can be moved from Hell to Paradise before the Second Coming, with the help of our prayers, good deeds, etc.

St Xenia of St Petersburg's husband comes to mind, and the aunt of Elder Joseph the Hesychast I think.