Acts 5:31

[Sentry]

Acts 5:31 says the OT saints were not granted repentence until after Christ was resurrected.

It doesn't say anything about OT saints. It says Israel was granted repentance as a result of Christ's resurrection.

I have explained my position, my question was for you to explain yours.
This is talking about occurances within temporal time. OT saints lived and died before Christ died and was resurrected. So the time travel defense is not very compelling.

What????

What you are really saying is that Acts 5:31 does not mean what it says.

No it means what it says alrighty. It means quite plainly what it says.

 

[nobdysfool]

No it means what it says alrighty. It means quite plainly what it says.

Too bad neither one of you have so far understood it. The repentance and faith spoken of are repentance and faith unto Christ, the awaited Messiah. The OT saints practiced repentance and faith long before Christ. Christ was their hope, although they perceived Him only dimly, being hidden until the time appointed by God to reveal Him. The Psalms are full of David's repentance, and his faith in God. But you would have him remain a heathen, along with all the OT saints.

 

[Sentry]

Too bad neither one of you have so far understood it. The repentance and faith spoken of are repentance and faith unto Christ, the awaited Messiah. The OT saints practiced repentance and faith long before Christ. Christ was their hope, although they perceived Him only dimly, being hidden until the time appointed by God to reveal Him. The Psalms are full of David's repentance, and his faith in God. But you would have him remain a heathen, along with all the OT saints.

Seems that it is you who does not comprend Acts 5:31. All you are doing above is reaffirming to yourself what you want to believe and ignoring what Acts 5:31 actually says.

 

[Van]

Sentry, I think the reference to Israel is a reference to OT saints, children of the promise. So when it is talking about Israel, it is talking about OT Saints. According to Acts 5:31, they were not granted repentance because they died before Israel was granted repentence following the death of Christ. Also note, Sentry, that your post 21 is reponding to a post not addressed to you.

 

[nobdysfool]

Seems that it is you who does not comprend Acts 5:31. All you are doing above is reaffirming to yourself what you want to believe and ignoring what Acts 5:31 actually says.

Answer the post, don't attack me and question my intelligence. Your Calvinist hatred is palpable, as is your disdain for anyone else who posts here.

 

[Van]

To return to topic, Acts 5:31 says Israel was granted repentence after Christ was raised from the dead. Israel had not been given repentance before Christ's death. So what repentence or change of mind was granted by the resurrected Christ? To turn from the works of the Law to faith in Christ. Therefore, the OT saints obtained approval through faith in God and His promises before, repeat, before they were "granted repentence by the unveiling of the mystery of Christ. Thus Acts 5:31 indicates total inability and irresistible grace are mistaken views of scripture.

To be regenerated means to be born again, and no one can be spiritually born again unless they are baptized into Christ's death, and therefore no one was regenerated before Christ died on the cross.

Since the OT saints who died before Christ died were not regenerated but still obtained approval by faith in God and His promises, both total inability and irresistible grace are demonstrated by Acts 5:31 to be mistaken views of scripture.

 

[nobdysfool]

To return to topic, Acts 5:31 says Israel was granted repentence after Christ was raised from the dead. Israel had not been given repentance before Christ's death. So what repentence or change of mind was granted by the resurrected Christ? To turn from the works of the Law to faith in Christ. Therefore, the OT saints obtained approval through faith in God and His promises before, repeat, before they were "granted repentence by the unveiling of the mystery of Christ. Thus Acts 5:31 indicates total inability and irresistible grace are mistaken views of scripture.

You make several mistakes here. First of all you tie repentance to the resurrection of Christ, yet the OT shows Jews repenting, and even Gentiles (Job). What you are saying is that no one could repent of their sins until after Christ's Resurrection. I see no such idea taught in scripture.

Second, All who were justified by faith in the OT were justified apart from the works of the Law, because, as Paul pointed out, the just shall live by faith. Their justification did not come about through the means of offering sacrifices, and keeping the points of the Law (although one who would find favor with God will keep the moral law, without much trouble), they were justified by God and declared righteous because they believed God, not just in some abstract way, but they believed His Word, both written and spoken to them personally, and acted on that belief. The idea that they were justified, but unregenerate, justified and declared righteous but unrepentant, is ludicrous!

To be regenerated means to be born again

Precisely correct.

and no one can be spiritually born again unless they are baptized into Christ's death

That's your own theory, it ain't scripture. You started off so well, then you threw this in... Sorry Van, you've tried to promote this before, and it doesn't fly. That dog won't hunt. "As many as were baptized were baptized into His Death" is talking about water baptism, as a type of the death of Christ, an identification with His death through the sacrament of baptism.

and therefore no one was regenerated before Christ died on the cross.

Why do you insist that Christ's work on the cross had no prior application, as a fulfillment and antetype of the sacrifices and oblations done which pointed to and signified the work of Christ? He validated the sacrifices! You've got even Christ bogged down in temporal time which moves in only one direction. It was God's purpose to redeem man by Christ's death from the beginning. Job said, "I know that my Redeemer liveth, and though I die, yet in my flesh shall I see God." The application of the work of Christ spans all of time, from beginning to end. It isn't limited to a point in time and then from that point forward.

Since the OT saints who died before Christ died were not regenerated but still obtained approval by faith in God and His promises, both total inability and irresistible grace are demonstrated by Acts 5:31 to be mistaken views of scripture.

This was the point of your whole little treatise, to yet again attack Calvinism, and try to discredit it. That's all you seem to think about. You're threatened by Calvinism, because it destroys your wrong doctrines.

So many here want to set up man as able to bring about his own salvation by his own choice, and declare that man really isn't all that bad, he can do God pleasing good works all by himself, and convince God to save him based on how obedient he is, all by himself. These are the people to whom Jesus will say "I never knew you. Depart from Me, ye workers of iniquity".

 

[Van]

First, while others may assert I made mistakes, I assert I did not. Second I did not equate repentance with the resurrection. To assert I did is a mistake. I said Acts 5:31 says God did not grant repentance until after Christ died and was resurrected. Therefore the OT saints were not granted this repentence while they were alive.

And again, I did not say or imply that the OT saints were justified by the works of the Law, so to assert that I did is another mistake.

Third, being spiritually baptized into Christ's death is not talking about water baptism as a symbol. That dog will not hunt. Lets look at Romans 6:3, "Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death." 1 Corinthians 12:13 says, "For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit." Therefore we have been placed in Christ, (1 Corinthians 1:30) by being spiritually baptized into Christ (Romans 6:3) by the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 12:13). So you see, that dog will hunt till the cows come home. Water baptism only symbolizes this spiritual rebirth.

" The idea that they were justified, but unregenerate, justified and declared righteous but unrepentant, is ludicrous!" I agree. And so to assert this ludicrous position is my position is a mistake.


"Why do you insist that Christ's work on the cross had no prior application, as a fulfillment and antetype of the sacrifices and oblations done which pointed to and signified the work of Christ?"

Again, this is not my position and to assert that it is is a mistake. Acts 5:31 says Israel, which includes all the OT saints, were not granted repentence before Christ was raised from the dead. But they obtained approval, Hebrews 11:2 by faith. So what I am saying is that the OT saints came to faith without being granted repentence. Scripture is crystal. And therefore, the doctrines of total inability and its purported override, irresistible grace, are mistaken views of scripture.

"This was the point of your whole little treatise, to yet again attack Calvinism, and try to discredit it. That's all you seem to think about. You're threatened by Calvinism, because it destroys your wrong doctrines."

And for the last time in this post, the above is not my position. I think about scripture and the truth scripture so plainly teaches. If God be for me, who can be against me. So I am not threated by your beliefs. The truth of scripture cannot be destroyed by mistaken views, whether mine or yours.