Acts 5:31

[Sentry]

The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom you had put to death by hanging Him on a cross. He is the one whom God exalted to His right hand as a Prince and a Savior to grant repentance to Israel and remission of sins. (Acts 5:30-31).

Soooo..... Israel previously did not have remission of sins.

And..... God granted repentance to Israel upon Jesus' resurrection.

If indeed OT peoples were born again, why would this be necessary?

 

[mlqurgw]

You have already started threads on this subject that are ongoing, why start another? Troll

 

[frumanchu]

The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom you had put to death by hanging Him on a cross. He is the one whom God exalted to His right hand as a Prince and a Savior to grant repentance to Israel and remission of sins. (Acts 5:30-31).

Soooo..... Israel previously did not have remission of sins.

And..... God granted repentance to Israel upon Jesus' resurrection.

If indeed OT peoples were born again, why would this be necessary?

The OT saints were saved the same way NT saints are: they are justified by faith, having righteousness imputed to them and their sins expiated. Christ came and fulfilled the promise set forth in Gen 3 and foreshadowed throughout the OT. The repentance and remission of sins signified and symbolized in the OT rituals were fully realized in the person and work of Christ. Whereas Israel looked to the signs in the OT rituals, they now behold that which was signified: the spotless Lamb through whom repentance and the remission of sins truly comes.

 

[Sentry]

The OT saints were saved the same way NT saints are: they are justified by faith, having righteousness imputed to them and their sins expiated. Christ came and fulfilled the promise set forth in Gen 3 and foreshadowed throughout the OT. The repentance and remission of sins signified and symbolized in the OT rituals were fully realized in the person and work of Christ. Whereas Israel looked to the signs in the OT rituals, they now behold that which was signified: the spotless Lamb through whom repentance and the remission of sins truly comes.

Uh huh. I wonder what Acts 5:31 is all about.

 

[frumanchu]

Uh huh. I wonder what Acts 5:31 is all about.

Read the last sentence again.

 

[Sentry]

Read the last sentence again.

Uh huh. And so we are not to read Acts 5:31 to say that only after Jesus' resurrection was Israel granted repentance and remission of sins right?

 

[frumanchu]

Uh huh. And so we are not to read Acts 5:31 to say that only after Jesus' resurrection was Israel granted repentance and remission of sins right?

Well, I'd love to know how the OT saints were saved apart from repentance and the remission of their sins. Are you saying that OT saints will be saved without repentance? Are you saying the OT saints will be saved without their sins being remitted?

 

[Sentry]

Well, I'd love to know how the OT saints were saved apart from repentance and the remission of their sins. Are you saying that OT saints will be saved without repentance? Are you saying the OT saints will be saved without their sins being remitted?

It amazes me how the neo-Calvinist mind works. Just look at your words. They do nothing but attempt to avoid the message of Acts 5:31 and do nothing to deal with what it says. All your "it does NOT mean" words smack of incessant denial. Calvinists have this sort of "if I don't understand how this verse fits into my theology then it can't mean what it appears to mean" attitude. Very odd.

How can you be in such denial?

The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom you had put to death by hanging Him on a cross. He is the one whom God exalted to His right hand as a Prince and a Savior, to grant repentance to Israel, and remission of sins. (Acts 5:31).

Men of Israel.... Being therefore exalted at the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this which you see and hear....Let all the house of Israel therefore know assuredly that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified.Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Brethren, what shall we do?" And Peter said to them, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is to you and to your children and to all that are far off, every one whom the Lord our God calls to him.

Repent therefore, and turn again, that your sins may be blotted out, that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, and that he may send the Christ appointed for you, Jesus, whom heaven must receive until the time for establishing all that God spoke by the mouth of his holy prophets from of old. Moses said, "The Lord God will raise up for you a prophet from your brethren as he raised me up. You shall listen to him in whatever he tells you. And it shall be that every soul that does not listen to that prophet shall be destroyed from the people.' And all the prophets who have spoken, from Samuel and those who came afterwards, also proclaimed these days. You are the sons of the prophets and of the covenant which God gave to your fathers, saying to Abraham, "And in your posterity shall all the families of the earth be blessed.' God, having raised up his servant, sent him to you first, to bless you in turning every one of you from your wickedness.

It is rather plain my friend.

 

[frumanchu]

It amazes me how the neo-Calvinist mind works. Just look at your words. They do nothing but attempt to avoid the message of Acts 5:31 and do nothing to deal with what it says. All your "it does NOT mean" words smack of incessant denial. Calvinists have this sort of "if I don't understand how this verse fits into my theology then it can't mean what it appears to mean" attitude. Very odd.

How can you be in such denial?

I will ask you yet again to please stop with the personal comments. Surely you can make your doctrinal points without resorting to personal attacks, can't you?

The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom you had put to death by hanging Him on a cross. He is the one whom God exalted to His right hand as a Prince and a Savior, to grant repentance to Israel, and remission of sins. (Acts 5:31).

Men of Israel.... Being therefore exalted at the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this which you see and hear....Let all the house of Israel therefore know assuredly that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified.Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Brethren, what shall we do?" And Peter said to them, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is to you and to your children and to all that are far off, every one whom the Lord our God calls to him.

Repent therefore, and turn again, that your sins may be blotted out, that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, and that he may send the Christ appointed for you, Jesus, whom heaven must receive until the time for establishing all that God spoke by the mouth of his holy prophets from of old. Moses said, "The Lord God will raise up for you a prophet from your brethren as he raised me up. You shall listen to him in whatever he tells you. And it shall be that every soul that does not listen to that prophet shall be destroyed from the people.' And all the prophets who have spoken, from Samuel and those who came afterwards, also proclaimed these days. You are the sons of the prophets and of the covenant which God gave to your fathers, saying to Abraham, "And in your posterity shall all the families of the earth be blessed.' God, having raised up his servant, sent him to you first, to bless you in turning every one of you from your wickedness.

It is rather plain my friend.

Question: Is Israel commanded to repent anywhere in the Old Testament? If so, how can they do so if it has not yet been granted to them?

 

[Sentry]

I will ask you yet again to please stop with the personal comments. Surely you can make your doctrinal points without resorting to personal attacks, can't you?



Question: Is Israel commanded to repent anywhere in the Old Testament? If so, how can they do so if it has not yet been granted to them?

Yes they are commanded to repent. BTW, I will be saving this question of yours. YOu will find out why later.

And the proof is there in the pudding. Look at your words. It is easy to see how you read through your Calvinist glasses. You presume that it means God granted them the ABILITY to repent and have their sins remitted. It is not about ability my friend. It is about opportunity.

And just as I suspected, you seem to think that you can rightfully nullify the words of the Bible if you can't understand how they can be true. But look at Acts 2. It is plain that Peter is telling devoted Israelites that they must repent due to this new thing that has happened. And we find the same thing again in chapter 3. And again here in chapter 5. But what happens when you read these verses? Does a fog roll into your mind that prevents you from seeing?

Remission of sins.

Hebrews 9 makes it quite clear that Israel did NOT have remission of sins under the Law but now DO have remission of sins in Christ.

Repentance

Repentance is a metanoia, a change of mindset. These Jews were to change their mindsets from their old way of the Law and efforts of the flesh to the new way of the Spirit and to Christ. God sent Jesus to his people, the Jews, first to turn them from their old ways. This was something new for them.

So as you can see God did command the Jews of the OT to repent. He commanded them to turn from disobedience to obedience to the Law. But here we see God granting the Jews and opportunity to have repentance unto life. By reading your own notions into the text you missed everything.

You make the same error at Philippians 1:29.

WRONG:

For to you it has been granted for Christ's sake, not only (the ability) to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake

RIGHT:

For to you it has been granted for Christ's sake, not only (the opportunity) to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake

 

[Augustine_Was_Calvinist]

It amazes me how the neo-Calvinist mind works. Just look at your words. They do nothing but attempt to avoid the message of Acts 5:31 and do nothing to deal with what it says. All your "it does NOT mean" words smack of incessant denial. Calvinists have this sort of "if I don't understand how this verse fits into my theology then it can't mean what it appears to mean" attitude. Very odd.

How can you be in such denial?

The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom you had put to death by hanging Him on a cross. He is the one whom God exalted to His right hand as a Prince and a Savior, to grant repentance to Israel, and remission of sins. (Acts 5:31).

Men of Israel.... Being therefore exalted at the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this which you see and hear....Let all the house of Israel therefore know assuredly that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified.Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Brethren, what shall we do?" And Peter said to them, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is to you and to your children and to all that are far off, every one whom the Lord our God calls to him.

Repent therefore, and turn again, that your sins may be blotted out, that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, and that he may send the Christ appointed for you, Jesus, whom heaven must receive until the time for establishing all that God spoke by the mouth of his holy prophets from of old. Moses said, "The Lord God will raise up for you a prophet from your brethren as he raised me up. You shall listen to him in whatever he tells you. And it shall be that every soul that does not listen to that prophet shall be destroyed from the people.' And all the prophets who have spoken, from Samuel and those who came afterwards, also proclaimed these days. You are the sons of the prophets and of the covenant which God gave to your fathers, saying to Abraham, "And in your posterity shall all the families of the earth be blessed.' God, having raised up his servant, sent him to you first, to bless you in turning every one of you from your wickedness.

It is rather plain my friend.

So, in other words, since you cannot answer Fru's questions, or rather want to avoid them, you go into a rant.

That evasive measure may work on other forums, but not here, not with people who have been around the block more than a few times and know better than to fall for your deceptive schemes.

 

[Van]

Sentry, I thought you answered the question, if repentence is only granted after the sacrifice of Christ, what were the OT saints commanded to do? Under the Old Covenant, folks were commanded to obey the requirements of the law, to turn or repent from living outside the Law to attempting to live according to the Law. If they did so, they had the promises of God. God set before them life and death and they were told to choose life.

But the Law was simply a tudor to lead people to Christ, and a faith in God's promises, for it taught them they could not keep the whole law, and therefore needed God's mercy. The mystery of salvation for the unjust was revealed in Christ Jesus, and now they were being called to turn from attempting to obtain the righteousness of God by the works of the Law, by which no flesh is justified, to obtaining the righteousness of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

Which brings us back to Acts 5:31, He is the one whom God exalted to His right hand as a Prince and a Savior, to grant repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

 

[Sentry]

Sentry, I thought you answered the question, if repentence is only granted after the sacrifice of Christ, what were the OT saints commanded to do? Under the Old Covenant, folks were commanded to obey the requirements of the law, to turn or repent from living outside the Law to attempting to live according to the Law. If they did so, they had the promises of God. God set before them life and death and they were told to choose life.

But the Law was simply a tudor to lead people to Christ, and a faith in God's promises, for it taught them they could not keep the whole law, and therefore needed God's mercy. The mystery of salvation for the unjust was revealed in Christ Jesus, and now they were being called to turn from attempting to obtain the righteousness of God by the works of the Law, by which no flesh is justified, to obtaining the righteousness of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

Which brings us back to Acts 5:31, He is the one whom God exalted to His right hand as a Prince and a Savior, to grant repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

Let's get one thing straight before we continue. Are you denying that Acts 5:31 indicates that repentance was now granted to Israel as a result of the resurrection of Jesus? And likewise, are you also denying that remission of sins was now available to Israel due to the resurrection of Jesus Christ?

 

[Van]

Question: Are you denying that Acts 5:31 indicates that repentance was now granted to Israel as a result of the resurrection of Jesus?

Answer: No. Here is what I said. "now they were being called to turn from attempting to obtain the righteousness of God by the works of the Law, by which no flesh is justified, to obtaining the righteousness of God through faith in Christ Jesus."

Question: Are you also denying that remission of sins was now available to Israel due to the resurrection of Jesus Christ?

Answer: No, see above.

Let me explain my position Sentry, I agree with you that nobody was regenerated (born again) under the old covenant of the Law. I disagree with you that once a person is born again, he or she might not spend eternity with Christ. 100 percent of those spiritually born again during their lifetime will obtain eternal life. John 1:12

 

[nobdysfool]

The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom you had put to death by hanging Him on a cross. He is the one whom God exalted to His right hand as a Prince and a Savior to grant repentance to Israel and remission of sins. (Acts 5:30-31).

Soooo..... Israel previously did not have remission of sins.

And..... God granted repentance to Israel upon Jesus' resurrection.

If indeed OT peoples were born again, why would this be necessary?

Quite simple, really. The OT sacrifices and such looked forward to their actual fulfillment in the work of Christ. The OT sacrifices were shadows and types of the actual work of Christ, ordained before the foundation of the world. By faith, the OT saints received forgiveness and repentance and justification, because it was carried forward to Christ, and the same happens today in reverse, we are forgiven, and justified, and repent, looking back to Christ, and His Work, in faith. Christ's work does not only go forward in time, it also went back in time, so that all forgiveness, all repentance, and all justification is based on and bought by the work of Christ at a specific point in time.

 

[Van]

How did the OT saints place their faith in God and His promises before they were granted a change of mind, since they were spiritually dead and had no ability to place their faith in God. Acts 5:31 indicates God did not grant them repentence, via regeneration, irresistible grace, gift of faith, or other name for the doctrine of the elect being spiritually altered before they come to faith until after Christ died.

 

[nobdysfool]

How did the OT saints place their faith in God and His promises before they were granted a change of mind, since they were spiritually dead and had no ability to place their faith in God. Acts 5:31 indicates God did not grant them repentence, via regeneration, irresistible grace, gift of faith, or other name for the doctrine of the elect being spiritually altered before they come to faith until after Christ died.

Then it is left to you to explain how Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Elijah, Elisha, Enoch, David, and others were justified by faith, during their lifetimes, as the scriptures clearly indicate.

This is where the idea of non-regenerate OT saints falls apart.

Christ's work happened at a specific point in temporal time, but it's effects and benefits were applied both before that time, and after that time. The LAW and the sacrifices were representations of Christ's work to come, and our faith and walk with Christ harkens back to His work 2000 years ago.
His work was timeless in its application even though it was accomplished in temporal time.

God is not limited by time, because He inhabits eternity, and His decrees are likewise not bound by time.

 

[Sentry]

How did the OT saints place their faith in God and His promises before they were granted a change of mind, since they were spiritually dead and had no ability to place their faith in God. Acts 5:31 indicates God did not grant them repentence, via regeneration, irresistible grace, gift of faith, or other name for the doctrine of the elect being spiritually altered before they come to faith until after Christ died.

The OT believers did not have the salvation that came once Jesus rose from the dead.

There is no such thing as not having an inability to believe what God says. This is nothing but a Calvinistic myth.

Acts 5:31 is quite clear isn't it? Israel was now granted repentance and remission of sins as a result of the resurrection of Jesus. You find the same message in chapter 2 and chapter 3 and so on.

 

[Van]

Acts 5:31 says the OT saints were not granted repentence until after Christ was resurrected. I have explained my position, my question was for you to explain yours.
This is talking about occurances within temporal time. OT saints lived and died before Christ died and was resurrected. So the time travel defense is not very compelling.
What you are really saying is that Acts 5:31 does not mean what it says.

 

[Van]

Sentry, not to put too fine a point on it, but I am on your side in this discussion. Acts 5:31 demonstrates that the OT saints came to faith before they were granted repentence. This illustrates that folks do not need irresistible grace to come to faith.
And further, Acts 5:31 also demonstrates that total inability is a mistaken view of scripture.