Acts 28ers

[Iosias]

Acts 28
28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.
29 And when he had said these words, the Jews departed, and had great reasoning among themselves.
30 And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him,
31 Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.

Why take Acts 28 as the beginning of the Church? Why not:

Acts 13:46

Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.

or

http://www.biblegateway.com/cgi-bin...age=english&version=KJV&showfn=on&showxref=on

Acts 14:27

http://www.biblegateway.com/cgi-bin...age=english&version=KJV&showfn=on&showxref=on

And when they were come, and had gathered the church together, they rehearsed all that God had done with them, and how he had opened the door of faith unto the Gentiles.

or

Acts 18:6

And when they opposed themselves, and blasphemed, he shook his raiment, and said unto them, Your blood be upon your own heads; I am clean; from henceforth I will go unto the Gentiles.

And why not baptise if Paul himself did:

Acts 16
14 And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul.
15 And when she was baptized, and her household, she besought us, saying, If ye have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house, and abide there. And she constrained us.
28 But Paul cried with a loud voice, saying, Do thyself no harm: for we are all here.
29 Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,
30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.
33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.

 

[@@Paul@@]

Why take Acts 28 as the beginning of the Church?

Hi AV, Here are some thoughts i have burried deep inside... I don’t think ANYONE can pin the beginning of the Body of Christ to a particular verse or period in time…

I believe Acts 28 had to do with the casting off of the nation of Israel, which opened the door for the introduction of the church, which is His Body. In other words: the body, which began through the nation of Israel sometime during the acts period, was ONLY being offered salvation. There was no HOPE, no CALLING apart from the hope and calling of the nation of Israel.

Act 26:22-23 KJV Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come: (23) That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.​

Even Paul said he witnessed both to “small and great” and did “none other things” than what the prophets and the law (Moses) said should come. It was not mystery that the Gentiles would be called OUT > the mystery was they were granted salvation prior to the chosen channel repenting…

Act 13:46-47 KJV Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles. (47) For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.​

Paul quotes from Isaiah and uses that prophesy to show Israel that salvation was to go to the Gentiles >> They were to hardened to see it. “For so hath the Lord commanded us” can refer to none other than the NATION for that’s what Isaiah is talking about… Also note: Paul said it was NECESSARY that HE preached the message FIRST to the Jew > this was because they were still the chosen channel – if they had been cast off and a new Body introduced, salvation could have went to everybody – equally.

Act 3:25-26 KJV Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed. (26) Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.​

…Even Peter confirmed that the NATION was to be the chosen channel by saying “And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed”; Because as of Joh 4:22 KJV “…salvation is of the Jews.”. But the nation must repent and turn to God.

Isa 49:5-6 KJV And now, saith the LORD that formed me from the womb to be his servant, to bring Jacob again to him, Though Israel be not gathered, yet shall I be glorious in the eyes of the LORD, and my God shall be my strength. (6) And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.​

One purpose of the Jewish Messiah can be seen in verse 5 above… (1) to be a HIS servant by bringing Israel back to the LORD… and verse 6 describes the plan; the Messiah would come to (2) raise up the tribes of Israel (Jacob) (3) restore the PRESERVED of Israel and then (4) they would go (the persevered) as a light to the Gentiles offering the salvation of God to the ends of the earth… <<< All that happens PRIOR to the 70th week of Daniel.

Pentecost looked forward to the great restoration of Israel (harvest and trumpets) in the end time! It was an ancitipatory celebration of the greater harvet to come (see Item (3) above) <<< however something happened and the restoration stopped.

Israel was NOT restored; they were rejecting the message for the third and final time. They rejected the FATHER with John the Baptist, the SON with Christ’s earthly ministry and Acts is the record of the nation rejecting the work of the Holy Spirit!!

Mat 12:31-32 KJV
(31) Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
(32) And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.​

The nation was warned what would happen if they rejected the work of the Holy Ghost.

Act 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.​

…and with those words by Stephen BEGAN the fall of the nation of Israel and the introduction of a SINGULAR seed and a SINGULAR “thee”. Paul was raised up and “born ahead of time” as a LIGHT to go to the gentiles. His purpose was to “to take out of the gentiles a people for his name” thus provoking new life into the nation (by rivalry).

Rom 11:14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.​

All this was according to prophecy; which was simply kept a secret FROM the foundation of the world.

Rom 10:19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.​

The salvation of Gentiles prior to the nation repenting was an attempt to provoke the nation to jealousy (see Romans 11 and the parable of the Olive Tree)... the goal was still to provoke NEW LIFE into the tree (Israel).

So, although I believe the body began with the introduction of Paul >> I don’t believe the “One New Man” was commissioned, given a new HOPE, a new CALLING and was given salvation APART from the nation of Israel (they were no longer the chosen channel after Acts 28:25-28)…

Why not:
Acts 13:46

or
Acts 14:27

or
Acts 14:27

Personally I think it would be around Acts 13 >> however the full revelation of the Body could not be known until Israel had been placed in abeyance.

Deu 28:13 And the LORD shall make thee the head, and not the tail; and thou shalt be above only, and thou shalt not be beneath; if that thou hearken unto the commandments of the LORD thy God, which I command thee this day, to observe and to do them:​

They are to be first in blessings > first in position; IF they obey… (which is why the Jew was FIRST prior to the events of Acts 28)…

And why not baptize if Paul himself did:

There is nothing wrong with water baptism… I’ll let someone else answer this…

 

[bleechers]

Re: Baptism

I think the Mid-Acts don't believe in baptism for the church.

Intro: http://www.geocities.com/benwebb.geo/basics.html

View of Baptism: http://www.geocities.com/benwebb.geo/bapindex.html

PS: @@Paul@@ is all that!

 

[In Christ Forever]

I have a question. Why does Paul mention the jews only and not the hebrew Israelites of the 10 other tribes? How were they referred to? They were divorced by God and mingled with the gentiles, so would they be considered part gentile? The only ones called jews were from the House of Judah/Levi and were in charge of the Temple in Jerusalem or am I misunderstanding something. Just confused on this. Thanks God bless.

Acts 13: 44 On the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God. 45 But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy; and contradicting and blaspheming, they opposed the things spoken by Paul. 46 Then Paul and Barnabas grew bold and said, "It was necessary that the word of God should be spoken to you first; but since you reject it, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, behold, we turn to the Gentiles.

Acts 18:1 After these things Paul departed from Athens and went to Corinth. 2 And he found a certain Jew named Aquila, born in Pontus, who had recently come from Italy with his wife Priscilla (because Claudius had commanded all the Jews to depart from Rome); and he came to them. 3 So, because he was of the same trade, he stayed with them and worked; for by occupation they were tentmakers. 4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and persuaded both Jews and Greeks. 5 When Silas and Timothy had come from Macedonia, Paul was compelled by the Spirit, and testified to the Jews [that] Jesus [is] the Christ. 6 But when they opposed him and blasphemed, he shook [his] garments and said to them, "Your blood [be] upon your [own] heads; I [am] clean. From now on I will go to the Gentiles."

 

[@@Paul@@]

I have a question. Why does Paul mention the jews only and not the hebrew Israelites of the 10 other tribes? How were they referred to? They were divorced by God and mingled with the gentiles, so would they be considered part gentile? The only ones called jews were from the House of Judah/Levi and were in charge of the Temple in Jerusalem. Just confused on this. Thanks God bless.

Hi IFC... A Jew would be the seed of Jacob > this includes ALL 12 tribes, even the lost ones.

 

[In Christ Forever]

Hi IFC... A Jew would be the seed of Jacob > this includes ALL 12 tribes, even the lost ones.

Umm no. God was pretty specific who were jews and who wasn't. Can you show me in the bible where there was no distinction between a jew and hebrew Israelite.
The seed of Jacob were all originally Hebrews, not jews, correct? Wasn't it the House of Judah/Levi seperated from the other 10 tribes and called Israel??
Sorry, but you lost me Paul.

Judah is specifically mentioned in this passage, not Israel, do you agree? Thanks.

jeremi 2:11 Has a nation changed [its] gods, Which [are] not gods? But My people have changed their Glory For [what] does not profit. 12 Be astonished, O heavens, at this, And be horribly afraid; Be very desolate," says the LORD. 13 "For My people have committed two evils: They have forsaken Me, the fountain of living waters, [And] hewn themselves cisterns -- broken cisterns that can hold no water. 14 " [Is] Israel a servant? [Is] he a homeborn [slave?] Why is he plundered? 15 The young lions roared at him, [and] growled; They made his land waste; His cities are burned, without inhabitant.
26 " As the thief is ashamed when he is found out, So is the house of Israel ashamed; They and their kings and their princes, and their priests and their prophets, 27 Saying to a tree, 'You [are] my father,' And to a stone, 'You gave birth to me.' For they have turned [their] back to Me, and not [their] face. But in the time of their trouble They will say, 'Arise and save us.' 28 But where [are] your gods that you have made for yourselves? Let them arise, If they can save you in the time of your trouble; For [according to] the number of your cities Are your gods, O Judah.


Who was Paul referring to here? How come he didn't say Israelites?

1 thess 2:14 For you, brethren, became imitators of the churches of God which are in Judea in Christ Jesus. For you also suffered the same things from your own countrymen, just as they [did] from the Judeans, 15who killed both the Lord Jesus and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they do not please God and are contrary to all men, 16 forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they may be saved, so as always to fill up [the measure of] their sins; but wrath has come upon them to the uttermost.

 

[@@Paul@@]

Umm no. God was pretty specific who were jews and who wasn't. Can you show me in the bible where there was no distinction between a jew and hebrew Israelite.
The seed of Jacob were all originally Hebrews, not jews, correct? Wasn't it the House of Judah/Levi seperated from the other 10 tribes and called Israel??
Sorry, but you lost me Paul.

Judah is specifically mentioned in this passage, not Israel, do you agree? Thanks.

Yes, the Jewish nation came out of the Hebrew race... Abraham became the first Hebrew when he "crossed the river" - so i guess all the seed of Abraham would be considered "Hebrews".

Yes, the 12 tribes were split into two houses...

Eze 37:16-17 KJV Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions: (17) And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.​

...but they will again be one. So, prophetically I see twelve tribes as ONE house >> and I refer to all them as the JEWish Nation << and i believe the Apostle Paul was too.

jew

the name derived from the patriarch Judah, at first given to one belonging to
the tribe of Judah or to the separate kingdom of Judah (2 Kings 16:6; 25:25;
Jer. 32:12; 38:19; 40:11; 41:3), in contradistinction from those belonging to
the kingdom of the ten tribes, who were called Israelites. During the
Captivity, and after the Restoration, the name, however, was extended to all
the Hebrew nation without distinction (Esther 3:6, 10; Dan. 3:8, 12; Ezra 4:12;
5:1, 5). Originally this people were called Hebrews (Gen. 39:14; 40:15; Ex. 2:7;
3:18; 5:3; 1 Sam. 4:6, 9, etc.), but after the Exile this name fell into disuse.
But Paul was styled a Hebrew (2 Cor. 11:22; Phil. 3:5). The history of the
Jewish nation is interwoven with the history of Palestine and with the
narratives of the lives of their rulers and chief men. They are now [1897]
dispersed over all lands, and to this day remain a separate people, "without a
king, and without a prince, and without a sacrifice, and without an image [R.V.
'pillar,' marg. 'obelisk'], and without an ephod, and without teraphim" (Hos.
3:4). Till about the beginning of the present century [1800] they were
everywhere greatly oppressed, and often cruelly persecuted; but now their
condition is greatly improved, and they are admitted in most European countries
to all the rights of free citizens. In 1860 the "Jewish disabilities" were
removed, and they were admitted to a seat in the British Parliament. Their
number in all is estimated at about six millions, about four millions being in
Europe. There are three names used in the New Testament to designate this
people,
(1.) Jews, as regards their nationality, to distinguish them from
Gentiles.

(2.) Hebrews, with regard to their language and education, to
distinguish them from Hellenists, i.e., Jews who spoke the Greek language.

(3.)
Israelites, as respects their sacred privileges as the chosen people of God. "To
other races we owe the splendid inheritance of modern civilization and secular
culture; but the religious education of mankind has been the gift of the Jew
alone."

 

[In Christ Forever]

Jer. 32:12; 38:19; 40:11; 41:3), in contradistinction from those belonging to
the kingdom of the ten tribes, who were called Israelites. During the
Captivity, and after the Restoration, the name, however, was extended to all
the Hebrew nation without distinction (Esther 3:6, 10; Dan. 3:8, 12; Ezra 4:12;
5:1, 5). Originally this people were called Hebrews (Gen. 39:14; 40:15; Ex. 2:7;

Another words, prophecies against one House is against both Houses. OK. God bless.

Acts 28
28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.
29 And when he had said these words, the Jews departed, and had great reasoning among themselves.
30 And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him,
31 Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.

 

[bleechers]

Can you show me in the bible where there was no distinction between a jew and hebrew Israelite.

Paul refered to himself as a "Jew," as an "Israelite," and as a "Hebrew". He was from the tribe of Benjamin (not Judah).

I believe Anna in Luke was from the tribe of Asher.

 

[In Christ Forever]

Paul refered to himself as a "Jew," as an "Israelite," and as a "Hebrew". He was from the tribe of Benjamin (not Judah).

I believe Anna in Luke was from the tribe of Asher.

I got off topic, sorry. God bless.

2 Chronicles 11:1 Now when Rehoboam came to Jerusalem, he assembled from the house of Judah and Benjamin one hundred and eighty thousand chosen [men] who were warriors, to fight against Israel, that he might restore the kingdom to Rehoboam.


matt 2:18 "A voice was heard in Ramah, Lamentation, weeping, and great mourning, Rachel weeping [for] her children, Refusing to be comforted, Because they are no more." [the children of Rachel were Benjamin and Joseph]

 

[Iosias]

Re: Baptism

I think the Mid-Acts don't believe in baptism for the church.

Intro: http://www.geocities.com/benwebb.geo/basics.html

View of Baptism: http://www.geocities.com/benwebb.geo/bapindex.html

PS: @@Paul@@ is all that!

Thanks for he links