Acts 2:38

[Vxer1000]

So, do you believe Acts 2:38 is a salvation message for today?

I do.

 

[Oblio]

There is a difference. They are both spelled differently. This is why I am a King James Bible Believer - I stick with the text as it stands perfectly in the 1611AV - I believe if God wanted forgiveness there then He would have put forgivness there. But I appreciate your comments.

So you believe the KJV translators were inspired ?

Do you believe that their personal interpretation of the Greek is more accurate than the Greek text itself ?

 

[Vxer1000]

So you believe the KJV translators were inspired ?

Do you believe that their personal interpretation of the Greek is more accurate than the Greek text itself ?

I believe the KJV was inspired by God. Look at the reason behind the translation and the meticulous way in which it was approached. No other translation had that much work thrown into it. The other versions are merely spinoffs of the KJV written to accomodate a religious belief system rather than an all-out attempt to give us an accurate English translation from the original script.

 

[AVBunyan]

I believe the KJV was inspired by God. Look at the reason behind the translation and the meticulous way in which it was approached. No other translation had that much work thrown into it. The other versions are merely spinoffs of the KJV written to accomodate a religious belief system rather than an all-out attempt to give us an accurate English translation from the original script.

HeyVxer1000 - We'll talk about your belief on Acts 2:38 later but right now I just want to shout over your defense of the 1611AV - Gloooooooorrrriiiiiiiiiiieeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!! Thanks - I needed that. Good job Vxer1000!

Also, all the new versions came from a completely different set of manuscripts that originated in Alexandria, Egypt by heathen philosophers. Don't want to turn this thread into a KJV thread but I just had to throw that in.

May God bless

 

[AVBunyan]

So you believe the KJV translators were inspired ?

Never said the KJV translators were inspried but what they put down under the providential hand of God is and I have it in my hands today!

 

[AVBunyan]

I do.

Would you mind expounding this in light of I Cor. 15:1-5 - thanks - looking forward to hearing your response.

 

[prodigal]

The water that Jesus is referring to when he says "born of water and the spirit", is the first birth that we all experience, the fluid in the amniotic sac. What makes a Christian different is that we are also born of the spirit, which takes place when we accept Christ as our Lord and savior. Immersion into water is a symbol of what has already taken place in our hearts. Baptism into water does not save us, it is the "baptism of our hearts" that produces a "new creation".

 

[Oblio]

I believe the KJV was inspired by God. Look at the reason behind the translation and the meticulous way in which it was approached. No other translation had that much work thrown into it. The other versions are merely spinoffs of the KJV written to accomodate a religious belief system rather than an all-out attempt to give us an accurate English translation from the original script.

So do you think the heterodox translators were inspired, but the Church that compiled the original texts is not ?

 

[Vxer1000]

The water that Jesus is referring to when he says "born of water and the spirit", is the first birth that we all experience, the fluid in the amniotic sac. What makes a Christian different is that we are also born of the spirit, which takes place when we accept Christ as our Lord and savior. Immersion into water is a symbol of what has already taken place in our hearts. Baptism into water does not save us, it is the "baptism of our hearts" that produces a "new creation".

Read 1 Peter 3.18-21 if you do not think baptism saves us or that John 3 is referring to the water of the amniotic sac.


1 Peter 3
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

 

[Oblio]

The water that Jesus is referring to when he says "born of water and the spirit", is the first birth that we all experience, the fluid in the amniotic sac.

There is no record of this phrase being used as meaning childbirth in writings of that era. What is used is the phrase Born of a woman. Why was it not used here if that is what was supposedly meant ?

 

[Vxer1000]

So do you think the heterodox translators were inspired, but the Church that compiled the original texts is not ?

What church are you referring to? I don't have my Bachelors in history or in anything for that matter. King James may not have been a Christian or even remotely close, but everyone always seems to miss this one important point: God could have used anyone to translate the scriptures. He just happened to use King James much the same way He used pharoah. (Romans 9.17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.) Besides all this history the KJV is the version through which God speaks clearly to me in spite of all the "thees" and "thous".

 

[Colabomb]

I will answer the actual original Question, instead of going off on the KJV thing.

Acts 2:38 is very clear on what it says.

People often claim Sola Scriptura (which isn't Scriptural anyway lol), and emphasize Sola, while ignoring Scriptura.

Scripture Says to repent and be Baptised for the Remission of your Sins. The Bible Teaches it, the Church for the last 2000 years has taught it, and it is true.

 

[Polycarp1]

I will answer the actual original Question, instead of going off on the KJV thing.

Acts 2:38 is very clear on what it says.

People often claim Sola Scriptura (which isn't Scriptural anyway lol), and emphasize Sola, while ignoring Scriptura.

Scripture Says to repent and be Baptised for the Remission of your Sins. The Bible Teaches it, the Church for the last 2000 years has taught it, and it is true.

Excellent post, Colabomb!!

Let's be clear on one thing: Whatever one believes about the purpose and function of Baptism, the reiterated command, "Repent and be baptized" means that any Christian is obliged to do what the Lord commands. That means: Be baptized.

The unanimous view of the Church for the first 1600 years of its existence, and something that Copts, Orthodox, Catholics, Anglicans, Methodists, and I believe Disciples and Church-of-Christ-ists today, is that God can and does use the material things of His Creation to bless His faithful people. Accordingly, when the repentant former non-believer comes before the Lord in trhe context of the church service, or the believing parents bring their infant child, water is set apart with a prayer that the Holy Spirit bless the person to be baptized through it, and he/she is therefore baptized in the name of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and in doing so, his/her sins are forgiven and he/she is made a child of God and a part of His family the Church, by God's grace conveyed through the water of baptism. This is not "magic." Rather, it is the carrying out of the Lord's command and the faith that He will Himself be faithful to His promises.

 

[AVBunyan]

Excellent post, Colabomb!!
Let's be clear on one thing: Whatever one believes about the purpose and function of Baptism, the reiterated command, "Repent and be baptized" means that any Christian is obliged to do what the Lord commands. That means: Be baptized.

OK then I challenge you to compare two verses. Go to the famous Matt. 28:20 - there Jesus told you to observe what He said, right? OK then go back to Matt. 23:3 and then read real close. Jesus just told you to observe what the Pharisees commanded - they spoke of the OT law. Now if you are going to be consistent and obey the Lord Jesus then you must obey law according to the Pharisees commands. You have to be careful in making blanket statements regarding obedience - you may get yourself in a bind (law).

Also, do you follow everything the Lord taught in Matt. 24? Called anybody a fool lately? Have you failed to forgive someone lately - if you so then you ar unforgiven yourself - now compare that with Eph. 1:7 and Col. 1:14.

Again, consider Paul first and the rest will fall into place.

May God bless your studies

 

[Vxer1000]

The bottom line is that we must be baptized as believers to be "born again". I confessed Jesus was Lord with my mouth many time before being baptized and each time it was a good experience, but it did not wash away my sins. If confessing Jesus was all we needed to do than every so-called Christian denomination would have the truth(because most of them confess Jesus is the Son of God). Water does not wash away your sins, obedience to the commandment of baptism does. Peter(not Paul) did the speaking here:


Acts 10
38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:
40 Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly;
41 Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead.
42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.
43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

 

[Colabomb]

OK then I challenge you to compare two verses. Go to the famous Matt. 28:20 - there Jesus told you to observe what He said, right? OK then go back to Matt. 23:3 and then read real close. Jesus just told you to observe what the Pharisees commanded - they spoke of the OT law. Now if you are going to be consistent and obey the Lord Jesus then you must obey law according to the Pharisees commands. You have to be careful in making blanket statements regarding obedience - you may get yourself in a bind (law).

Also, do you follow everything the Lord taught in Matt. 24? Called anybody a fool lately? Have you failed to forgive someone lately - if you so then you ar unforgiven yourself - now compare that with Eph. 1:7 and Col. 1:14.

Again, consider Paul first and the rest will fall into place.

May God bless your studies

But there is a difference between failing, and repenting of that sin, and intentionally ignoring for your entire life a command of Christ.

 

[AVBunyan]

What some people don't understand is that people are not saved and justified by anythign they do. What justifies a man according to scripture is the faith of Jesus Christ. Water can't wash away sins - only the shed blood of Christ can do that and that has been done.

Salvation is in a person not a system of things you do. Your faith didn't justify it was Christ's faith (Gal. 2:16, Rom. 3:22). Man's faith is absolutely worthless when it comes to salvation. The faith you get to believe comes from God so it is not even your faith. This idea of man doing something and thinking his obedience to a message will save him is false. Your obedience, your faith cannot save you. Your faith in the right message won't save you.

Do you know what saves a man - Christ and Christ alone. This was my whole point on even entering into this discussion to show that salvation is based upon a person not your obedience to a message. Once one begins to talk about his faith and obedience to a message then your salvation shifts from what Christ did to what man thinks he can do.

Question - "What saved you?"

Asnwer - "My faith in Jesus Christ and what he did at Calvary."

Sounds good but still is wrong. Your faith didn't save you.

Question - what saved you?

Scripture answer - Christ.

May God bless

 

[Vxer1000]

What some people don't understand is that people are not saved and justified by anythign they do. What justifies a man according to scripture is the faith of Jesus Christ. Water can't wash away sins - only the shed blood of Christ can do that and that has been done.

Salvation is in a person not a system of things you do. Your faith didn't justify it was Christ's faith (Gal. 2:16, Rom. 3:22). Man's faith is absolutely worthless when it comes to salvation. The faith you get to believe comes from God so it is not even your faith. This idea of man doing something and thinking his obedience to a message will save him is false. Your obedience, your faith cannot save you. Your faith in the right message won't save you.

Do you know what saves a man - Christ and Christ alone. This was my whole point on even entering into this discussion to show that salvation is based upon a person not your obedience to a message. Once one begins to talk about his faith and obedience to a message then your salvation shifts from what Christ did to what man thinks he can do.

Question - "What saved you?"

Asnwer - "My faith in Jesus Christ and what he did at Calvary."

Sounds good but still is wrong. Your faith didn't save you.

Question - what saved you?

Scripture answer - Christ.

May God bless

Our actions are an indication of our faith:

James 2
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.


Baptism is not a work, it is our spiritual birth, but the scripture still applies in that our actions indicate our faith just as Abraham when he was told to sacrifice his son. Remember the story of Naaman the leper. He was told to dip himself in the Jordan seven times. At first he refused but then a servant spoke to him and persuaded him to do it. After he washed the bible said he came out of the water the seventh time with his skin like a child. You can't just say "I believe" and not follow through with an action that does not indicate that belief. In Acts 2 the bible says those that gladly received the words of Peter were baptized and the same day there were added 3000 "souls"(a word indicative of the relationship of baptism to salvation). The bible also says in Matthew:

Matthew 7
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

 

[AVBunyan]

Our actions are an indication of our faith:
Baptism is not a work, it is our spiritual birth, but the scripture still applies in that our actions indicate our faith just as Abraham when he was told to sacrifice his son.

I never said one should not have works as a result of our justification - Paul is very clear on this in Eph. 4:1.

Now I have some questions if you don't mind:
1. Accorindg to Eph. 4:5 - there is one baptism today - is it water (as you say in JOhn 3 and Acts 2) or the spiritual baptism of Col. 2:11,2? - They are different and the answer can't be both - there is only one - which one is it?
2. According to Gal. 2:16 what justified you?

Now, I will await your answers and then we can go on if you like. Now you don't have to answer and I'll understand but there is "reasoning to my madness"

Also you used, "shall enter into the kingdom of heaven" - not the issue here is getting into the kingdom of heaven - two things to note:
1. This was said before Christ died at Calvary - the issue of the death, burial and resurrection for sins was not even known about - even Christ's faithful disciples didn't know about it (Luke 18:34)!
2. The issue here is the kingdom of heaven - a literal, physical land that was promised to Israel that they will enter into one day at the end of the tribulation. The issue here was not salvation as we think of it today. Not until you get to Paul's gospel do you get the message of salvation for today.

Acts 2:38 was a message to Jews regarding their rejection of their Messian in anticipation of the second advent - you couldn't find a Christian in Cats 2 with an elctron miscroope - the whole setting was Jewish and the purpose for Calvary was not yet fully revealed so to use Acts 2:38 as a slavtion message won't cut it.

Also I'm still waiting for those who say they have to obey all that Chrsit commanded to respond to my challenge to Matt. 28:20 compared with Matt. 23:3 - haven't had anybody yet pick up that gauntlet. I'm patiently waiting for somebody to explain that one.

Finally one more question - who are you going to believe?
Paul -the apostle to the Gentiles with the advanced revelation from Jesus regarding the body of Christ?
Or...
Peter - the apostle to the circumcism with the message to the Jewish nation during Acts?

Which one are you going to take today - they had different messasges for different people for different times - which one are you going to go by?

May God bless

 

[Colabomb]

I never said one should not have works as a result of our justification - Paul is very clear on this in Eph. 4:1.

Now I have some questions if you don't mind:
1. Accorindg to Eph. 4:5 - there is one baptism today - is it water (as you say in JOhn 3 and Acts 2) or the spiritual baptism of Col. 2:11,2? - They are different and the answer can't be both - there is only one - which one is it?
2. According to Gal. 2:16 what justified you?

Now, I will await your answers and then we can go on if you like. Now you don't have to answer and I'll understand but there is "reasoning to my madness"

Also you used, "shall enter into the kingdom of heaven" - not the issue here is getting into the kingdom of heaven - two things to note:
1. This was said before Christ died at Calvary - the issue of the death, burial and resurrection for sins was not even known about - even Christ's faithful disciples didn't know about it (Luke 18:34)!
2. The issue here is the kingdom of heaven - a literal, physical land that was promised to Israel that they will enter into one day at the end of the tribulation. The issue here was not salvation as we think of it today. Not until you get to Paul's gospel do you get the message of salvation for today.

Acts 2:38 was a message to Jews regarding their rejection of their Messian in anticipation of the second advent - you couldn't find a Christian in Cats 2 with an elctron miscroope - the whole setting was Jewish and the purpose for Calvary was not yet fully revealed so to use Acts 2:38 as a slavtion message won't cut it.

Also I'm still waiting for those who say they have to obey all that Chrsit commanded to respond to my challenge to Matt. 28:20 compared with Matt. 23:3 - haven't had anybody yet pick up that gauntlet. I'm patiently waiting for somebody to explain that one.

Finally one more question - who are you going to believe?
Paul -the apostle to the Gentiles with the advanced revelation from Jesus regarding the body of Christ?
Or...
Peter - the apostle to the circumcism with the message to the Jewish nation during Acts?

Which one are you going to take today - they had different messasges for different people for different times - which one are you going to go by?

May God bless

I have a question for you. When Christ commanded the men to go out and Baptize in the Name of the Father and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, did He mean that? Or was it just a suggestion?

Another question is, when Jesus said that He that believes and is Baptized will be Saved, and He that does not believe will be ******. Did He mean that?