Acts 15

[Der Alte]

[SIZE=-1]Bestiality is quite clearly condemned in Leviticus 18:23.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Homosexuality is however not condemned anywhere in the old testament.[/SIZE]

This post is blatantly false, I have proved this several times, when this same rubbish was posted before. But, evidently "Bads" chooses to ignore the truth and remain in his false beliefs.

"Shakab is used 52 times in the old testament and is always used to a sexual encounter typified by deceit or force, in other words, some type of rape."​

This assertion is blatantly false. I have asked "bad" several times to back it up and he has been unable to. Although it is absolutely false, even if true, the word "shakab" occurs 212 times in the O.T., that means about 75.5% of the times it does NOT involve "deceit or force."

Unlike Bad, I always back up what I say. Data on the word "shakab" in the O.T. can be verified at this link. The definition of "shakab" I do not see rape, deceit, force, etc.

Strong's Number: 07901 [size=+1]שקב[/size] a primitive root
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Shakab TWOT - 2381
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
shaw-kab' Verb
Definition
to lie down
(Qal)
to lie, lie down, lie on
to lodge
to lie (of sexual relations)
to lie down (in death)
to rest, relax (fig)
(Niphal) to be lain with (sexually)
(Pual) to be lain with (sexually)
(Hiphil) to make to lie down
(Hophal) to be laid
King James Word Usage - Total: 212
lie 106, sleep 48, lie down 43, rest 3, lien 2, miscellaneous 10
​

http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Hebrew/heb.cgi?number=07901&version=kjv

Rather than listen to the unsupported assertions of people who do not know what they are talking about, let us see what REAL Hebrew scholars say, and have said since the time of Moses, about 3200 years +/-.

Here again irrefutable, credible, verifiable, historical evidence which has NEVER been addressed in a reasoned, meaningful manner, here.

[Note: All upper case in this citation appears in the original]
Talmud -- Sanhedrin 54a

MISHNAH. HE WHO COMMITS SODOMY WITH A MALE OR A BEAST, AND A WOMAN THAT COMMITS BESTIALITY ARE STONED. . . . Our Rabbis taught: If a man lieth also with mankind, as the lyings of a woman,29 both of them have committed on abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them,]. . .

Sanhedrin 54b

This teaches the punishment: whence do we derive the formal prohibition? — From the verse, Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is an abomination.1 . . . whence do we know a formal prohibition for the person who permits himself thus to be abused? — Scripture saith: There shall be no sodomite of the sons of Israel:2 and it is further said, . . .

Now, he who [actively] commits pederasty, and also [passively] permits himself to be thus abused — R. Abbahu said: On R. Ishmael's view, he is liable to two penalties, one [for the injunction] derived from thou shalt not lie with mankind, and the other for [violating the prohibition,] There shall not be a Sodomite of the sons of Israel. . . .

for there shall be no Sodomite applies to sodomy with mankind.13 . . .

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Jewish Encyclopedia - Dog

The shamelessness of the dog in regard to sexual life gave rise to the name ("dog") for the class of priests in the service of Astarte who practised sodomy ("kedeshim," called also by the Greeks &#954;&#965;&#957;&#945;&#943;&#948;&#959;&#953;, Deut. xxiii. 19 [A. V. 18]; compare ib. 18 [17] and Rev. xxii. 15; see Driver ad loc.), . . .(see "C. I. S." i., No. 86).

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=415&letter=D

Jewish Encyclopedia - Chastity

(e) The unnatural crimes against chastity, sodomy and pederasty, prevalent in heathendom, were strictly prohibited (Lev. xviii. 22, 23; xx. 13, 15, 16; Deut. xxvii. 21).

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=386&letter=C

Jewish Encyclopedia - DIDACHE -

Dependence upon Jewish Custom.

2: "Thou shalt not commit adultery" (Ex. xx. 14). (This includes: "Thou shalt not commit sodomy nor fornication.") "Thou shalt not steal" (Ex. xx. 15). . . .

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=341&letter=D

Jewish Encyclopedia - Crime

In three cases the person on the point of committing a crime may be killed: where he pursues a neighbor in order to kill him; where he pursues a male to commit sodomy;

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=301&letter=L

Jewish Encyclopedia - The 613 Commandments,: 3347-53.

Adultery, sodomy, etc. Lev. Xviii. 7, 14, 20, 22, 23.

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=689&letter=C

"We Can't Legitimate Homosexuality Halkhically" (USCJ Review, Spring 2004): Joel Roth

The two verses in the book of (Leviticus (18:22 and 20:13) which deal with homosexuality are really quite clear, despite the efforts of some to call their clarity into question. (Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13 absolutely forbid homosexual intercourse between males. The Rabbis, in the Sifra (Aharei Mot 9:8), also understand the Torah to forbid lesbianism. The Torah’s prohibitions, let it be clear, are against actions, like male homosexual intercourse, not against fantasies or attractions.

The Torah and the Rabbis do not distinguish between types of homosexuals in any way... The Rabbis were well able to conceive of monogamous and loving relationships between members of the same sex, and I quote in my paper the texts that prove this beyond reasonable question. But their words cannot possibly be read to imply that such monogamous or loving gay relationships are in a different halakhic [Jewish legal] category than any other relationships between members of the same sex. The prohibition is clear and total.”​

http://www.uscj.org/POINTRoth6331.html

Naomi Grossman, freelance journalist, states in her April 2001 article in Moment Magazine, "The Gay Orthodox Undergound":

"The Torah strictly forbids homosexual sex, and rabbis have consistently upheld that prohibition through the ages... The prohibition against homosexual sex comes from Leviticus: 'Do not lie with a male as one lies with a woman; it is an abhorrence' (18:22). In biblical times, the punishment for violating that code was clear. 'If a man lies with a male as one lies with a woman, the two of them have done an abhorrent thing; they shall be put to death -— their bloodguilt is upon them' (Leviticus 20:13). The Talmud extends the prohibition to lesbian sex [Hilchot Issurei Bi'ah 21:8]."​

http://members.aol.com/gayjews/moment.html ​

 

[PinkTulip]

Do YOU personally adhere to all the laws of Leviticus?

or are some you don't feel you need to apply to your life?

Laws like
Not wearing clothing made of mixed fabrics.
Not letting people with glasses attend your church
Not letting the handicapped enter your church
Not eating shellfish
Keeping slaves
Murdering your own rebellious children
Not planting hybrids or making use of modern agricultural products (Which, by the way, includes tulips)

When you tell us you follow all these laws we can continue with discussing your question about how some state the laws of Leviticus don't apply to them.

You fail to the see point of the entire thread. We are talking about Acts 15: 28-29

 

[DArceri]

No it is not clearly prohibited at all in the new testament. And not even mentioned in the old.

These verses seem to suggest that God considers homosexuality "unnatural"....WHAT IS YOUR TAKE ON THESE VERSES:

1 Corinthians 6:9-11
Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Romans 1:24-27
For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.

 

[RMDY]

Jesus said what proceeds out of a man's heart is what is unclean and labeled sexual immorality an unclean evil. Any sexual immoral thing within the O.T. is considered to be unclean and evil in the new covenant, whereas wearing jeans and eating pork and other sea food is considered to be fine since it does not originate from the body.

 

[DArceri]

Okay, I am going to finally post this AGAIN (because no one ever answers it)

And so the debate continues regarding the Law, Gospel and homosexuality. Some of you state that Levitical law does not apply. The same thing was being debated 2000 years ago and it was settled in Acts 15.

19"It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. 20Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. 21For Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath."

28It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: 29You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things. Farewell.

The above was referring to the Law. I think it is clear that these Laws refer to us as Christians. So why are we debating it?

I believe what James is proposing here is that the Gentiles avoid "these things" so as not to offend Jewish sensibilities. He is not saying you need to follow some parts of the law and not others. Grace through faith is the main message at this council.