Why would God set up a universe where actions ultimately don't make a difference?
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razeontherock
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Wow, I sure have to see the logic behind the assumption that leads to the question in the OP ...
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Sophrosyne
Let Your Light Shine.. Matt 5:16
Although I am not supposed to reply to you, my guess is he probably thinking alone the lines of some of calvinists beliefs of election and predestination.
The thinking carried to an extreme says God has planned everything everyone ever does both good and evil which basically makes the universe into a programmed machine that runs his program and gives in a sense no free will at all.
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I mean that actions are not a necessary component to gain eternal life. Belief is the only prerequisite according to mainstream Christian theology.
Belief is the primary component which earns you eternal life. Actions are a secondary component that you do while you're on Earth but ultimately are not part of the causal relationship which leads to eternal life.
Am I right?
Or is there something that says that you must do good actions to earn eternal life? Is there something that says that belief is not required to earn eternal life? Is there something that says that both belief and action are required to earn eternal life?
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I agree that many Christians believe that Belief is the only prerequisite to receiving eternal life. I do not agree that is true of mainstream Christian theology. The Bible is filled with teachings that loving actions result in eternal life and wickedness results in death or not receiving eternal life.
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Having a system based on faith in a benevolent creators Love; seems extremely fair since the lowliest mature adult on earth can have faith in a benevolent creator and should/could/would have a huge desire for that type of a creator. This system is the best way for humans with just a little willingness to accept Gods help (Charity) to have eternity surrounded by this Love, while those with too much pride to accept charity or even like that type of charity (Love) (continue to refuse Gods Love), can avoid being forced to accept that Love (can stay out of heaven which is not where they want to be).
So what better system would you have to allow those that truly would enjoy heaven and shown that desire to go to heaven (a place of a huge Godly type Love feast) and those that would not be happy in heaven (they desire only a selfish type love) to not have to go there?
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98cwitr
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That's a self-centered, "what's in it for me" way to look at it...try to see it from God's POV
We're clay pots, dude....clay pots. Yet, we are so much more valuable than sparrows.
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So you are of the opinion that grace is not the sole prerequisite for eternal life and works do actually matter?
As in, with works alone you can gain eternal life or with works plus grace you can gain eternal life?
If works alone can gain you eternal life but grace alone cannot, then works are far more important.
If works and grace are both required then you run into a whole host of problems that conflict with Christian theology. How many good works are needed? What about original sin? Etc...
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A better system would be one where moral actions have a purpose. If all you need to do is accept God's love and charity, then morality and good and evil might as well be thrown out the window.
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Indeed. It is my biggest problem with Christian theology: morality is undermined by grace while ironically the one who the faith is based around (Jesus) talks almost entirely of good works and moral action.
Grace is a Pauline construction. Jesus emphasized doing morally good things for the glory of God.
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Because just Him, Jesus and the Holy Spirit chilling in the Nowhere was getting a little boring
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That's a self-centered, "what's in it for me" way to look at it...try to see it from God's POV
Please enlighten me. It seems that so long as you have the idea of the afterlife in the equation you are forced to consider "what's in it for you" because you're looking at heaven or hell. If, on the other hand, you don't believe in an afterlife, then it seems that you can truly do good for others selflessly without worrying "what's in it for you" eternally.
If things I "do" determine my eternal fate, then I sure would like to know what it is that I'm "doing" wrong!
Please explain this statement
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razeontherock
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razeontherock
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Try injecting the idea that actions have no consequence into the first story in the Bible, and see what you come up with. Or try that with ANY story in the Bible, for that matter ...
You've come across some good ideas that I've seen, but this doesn't (yet) seem to be one of them. (Not really sure I know where you're going with this though)
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Sophrosyne
Let Your Light Shine.. Matt 5:16
Morality is not undermined, but exposed by grace. If you remove all reward for morality then one has to decide to be moral or not without reward and this speaks volumes of the true person.
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