ACLU Wants Cross Removed from Cemetary Plot

[trunks2k]

So ACLU I am Mormon. When I die are you going to have a picture of a Mormon Temple scratched off my tombstone? If you do I will come back and haunt you. It is private property!

It's not private property. It's a government owned cemetary.

 

[burrow_owl]

So ACLU I am Mormon. When I die are you going to have a picture of a Mormon Temple scratched off my tombstone?

No. You're allowed to make your headstone as ugly as you want it to be. What's at issue here isn't a tombstone; it's a monument.

 

[Zippythepinhead]

No. You're allowed to make your headstone as ugly as you want it to be. What's at issue here isn't a tombstone; it's a monument.

If I by the cemetery plot, it is MY property. If I put up a giant cross on my plot, or have my relatives do it, it is MY property! My understanding is that this cross is on a private plot. Correct me if I am wrong. Screw the ACLU

 

[Illuminatus]

Example if you use Aluminum it would weight about 14,610,349,299 Pounds

What if we use popsicle sticks?

 

[burrow_owl]

One factual thing that's important, I think, is who exactly donated the plot? If it was donated by the government (ie the cemetary), then there's a strong argument that it was a sham transaction that was made just so the cross could be put somewhere. The intent seems clear to me: the government wanted to stick its big ugly cross somewhere, and they couldn't put it on public land, so they gave a square of their land to some guy and put the big blight up. As I understand, courts don't look too kindly on those kinds of shell-game shenanigans.

If, on the other hand, it was donated by some other private party, then the free speech issue becomes kinda moot, since there's no real government actor involved. I guess the argument would be that the government sanctions the cross by allowing it, but that legality-as-sanction argument is stupid, whether it's deployed against gay marriage or against big ugly crosses.

Alternately, you'd think that something as big and ugly as that cross would be forbidden by the rules and bylaws of the cemetary, but that's not really a first amendment issue anymore. So, I think that if the government didn't donate the land, then this is a case of some local ACLU guy getting a little overzealous.

 

[Fineous_Reese]

What if we use popsicle sticks?

tree killer!


i lived behind/next to a cemetary for a few years, other than when the foxes were in heat (which sound like a woman screaming like she's being stabbed, always fun) it was quiet and a great place to go jogging. i also learned that the upkeep done is mowing the grass, trimming the hedges and sometimes clearing out dead flowers. the gov't wouldn't be spending any money on the upkeep of a monument like this even if it were a gov't cemetary and not a privately owned plot. now if it's lit, who is paying for the electricity? i'd hope the bill would go to the plot owner but i don't know.

 

[Vylo]

Solution: Use cross as part of a headstone, move cross to said plot, make larger if desired.

 

[Praise2God]

...Why do so many conservative Christians keep asking that they be granted special privileges (like installing an ostentatious, ten foot cross in a cemetery) that they're not willing to grant liberal Christians or people of other faiths (or no faith at all)?

Well, thank you for calling the ones who love and follow the Lord's scripture a "conservative Christian." As a Christian, I take that as a compliment.

 

[UberLutheran]

O father who art in heaven please bring an end to the ACLU organistion which is attacking our personal freedoms. Let them know only defeat in their strivings. Let them be confused and confounded at every turn. Father I ask you in Jesus name to cut off their funding support and take away their tax exempt status.

...who choose to become involved in partisan politics, to the point of excommunicating those members who disagree with that religious organizataion's position on political or social issues or declaring which organizations have the right to exist, that organizations' tax exempt status may be revoked by the Internal Revenue Service and that these same organizations be assessed for all pertinent current and back taxes.

 

[UberLutheran]

There are some Christians who would disagree with you on that prayer.

...that those of us who disagree with them are not really "Christian" -- or at least, not as "Christian" as they think they are.

 

[angela 2]

...that those of us who disagree with them are not really "Christian" -- or at least, not as "Christian" as they think they are.

Sigh. I'm with you, Uber. We 'radical' moderates have to stick together so we won't be so easy to run over.

 

[UberLutheran]

So ACLU I am Mormon. When I die are you going to have a picture of a Mormon Temple scratched off my tombstone? If you do I will come back and haunt you. It is private property!

No one is going to be able to see your picture of the Mormon Temple because my 1,517 foot statue of Martin Luther is going to be blocking all the sunlight!

 

[Smidlee]

So maybe we should get rid of the Statue of Liberty since that is an idol. Is this all ACLU has to sue over anymore? They could just as easily sue because of the graves themselves since it speak of resurrection and it really an religous act itself.

 

[Zippythepinhead]

No one is going to be able to see your picture of the Mormon Temple because my 1,517 foot statue of Martin Luther is going to be blocking all the sunlight!

 

[Quantos]

No one is going to be able to see your picture of the Mormon Temple because my 1,517 foot statue of Martin Luther is going to be blocking all the sunlight!

Have you decided what to make it of yet ??

 

[UberLutheran]

So maybe we should get rid of the Statue of Liberty since that is an idol. Is this all ACLU has to sue over anymore? They could just as easily sue because of the graves themselves since it speak of resurrection and it really an religous act itself.

My 1,517-foot statue of Martin Luther will:

a) dwarf the Statue of Liberty, thereby relegating it to insignificance;
b) be a lot neater and cooler than any old copper statue!

And if we're going to erect any idols, they're going to be idols of Beethoven and Franz Liszt (because I happen to be a pianist and I like Beethoven and Liszt) -- but only after we get the Luther statue built.

 

[Paula]

That's all well and good, but It's a government owned cemetary, so that has nothing to do with anything.

I see we have something in common - both of us have trouble spelling "cemetery"!

So ACLU I am Mormon. When I die are you going to have a picture of a Mormon Temple scratched off my tombstone? If you do I will come back and haunt you. It is private property!

ROFL Actually, I have seen pictures of the Mormon Temple on more than one headstone. My father is buried at a beautifully maintained, city-owned cemetery which is considered a historic landmark dating back to Territorial days. Many original Mormon settlers and founders, Native Americans, etc. are also buried in the older section which I love to visit because I find this period of history most fascinating. The inscriptions on these monuments are a story unto themselves. Many prominent people are also interred there.

Although it's a government-owned cemetery, families are permitted to place Christmas and Easter decorations not only at the gravesite, but even on neighboring trees! Some of these decorations even have--you guessed it--lights! (Shudder) People are also permitted to hold religious memorial services alongside the grave if they so choose. (Shhhh-no one tell the aclu!)

Thankfully, the original headstones, sculptures of Jesus, the angels, etc. were left intact. Although I'm not Mormon, if the ACLU ever decides to challenge any of this historic memorabilia, be rest assured I will personally appear on their doorstep no later than 8 am the following morning. They will have some splainin' to do!

 

[Rochir]

Why do so many conservative Christians keep asking that they be granted special privileges (like installing an ostentatious, ten foot cross in a cemetery) that they're not willing to grant liberal Christians or people of other faiths (or no faith at all)?

That is such a good question!!!

 

[Rochir]

No one is going to be able to see your picture of the Mormon Temple because my 1,517 foot statue of Martin Luther is going to be blocking all the sunlight!

ROTFL!!!!

 

[Paula]

Looks like once again, someone fed the media a fake story, and the media didn't bother to check sources...

Just received confirmation from the aclu. Looks like it's not a fake story; they are challenging the cross.

Frankly, I don't think anybody would have had a problem with the cross, had it not been nearly ten feet tall --

Can you corroborate this factoid?