GodFixated said:
Actually, you know what's funny, is that I didn't put a single word in your mouth. I was basically just telling you my own opinion about how you and many others like you who I have talked to, that think that evidence can only be believed one way, it seems, and that evidence compels one to believe a certain way. It has really nothing to do with what you were saying and more to do about my preconceived notions being correct.
So you're admitting that your statement had nothing to do with what I actually said, and you are further clarifying that you were *not* claiming that I said that evidence should cause everyone to agree with me? Okay. It would have been preferable had you said so the first time.
GodFixated said:
What's funny is that realization is, in essence a choice. The phrase "I came to a realization..." is the same as "I chose to realize.."
That isn't true at all. A realization either occurs to you, or it doesn't. As much as quoting from a dictionary can sometimes be problematic, I think it's important here to establish what the word "realize" means.
realize, v.: 1. To comprehend completely or correctly.
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=realize
This was the definition I found most relevant to our discussion. The take-home point here is that "realization" is abou comprehension,
not about choice. A realization is NOT the same thing as a choice; often one may realize something
other than one wanted or would have chosen to know, if one had the option.
GodFixated said:
You must not understand that you can not realize something until you come to the free will choice to realize it.
I don't understand it because it is not the case.
GodFixated said:
Nothing "makes" you or "forces" you to believe in something, you must decide that your conclusion is in line with the evidence.
But what has the evidence to do with anything, if belief is a "choice"? If you can truly choose what to believe, then you don't need evidence. If you need evidence in order to believe, then it isn't a choice. I don't know much more simply I can state that.
GodFixated said:
Decision leads to a choice and if anyone is "made" to believe something through evidence, then they must be CD-R because their beliefs are being written on them and they have no control. Are you a CD-R? No, you are a human being.
Are you a giraffe?
GodFixated said:
What's funny is that your perception of what is false is only based on opinions from conclusions that you drew up through experiences, yet not everyone agrees with you; so, evidence cannot simply "make" someone believe because there are so many conclusions that can be drawn from the same evidence, which people through their unique experiences decide are right.
People understand things differently. I never disputed this. Different individuals have different notions of what constitutes valid evidence, and what that evidence means. That doesn't mean they don't require something which they find to be persuasive evidence in order to believe something.
GodFixated said:
You, also, bring up a point that people need evidence to believe, which is totally false. People do not require evidence to believe something is real.
Are you a giraffe?
GodFixated said:
Take a look at the Geologic Column, there is no evidence for it. In fact, there is evidence to the contrary, yet people are adamant to believe it.
Just because the evidence for a thing does not persuade you, that doesn't mean that said evidence doesn't exist. It means only that your understanding of "sufficient evidence" differs from others' understanding.
GodFixated said:
People believe in black holes, even I believe in black holes; yet, there really is no evidence to support the concept except the word of scientists.
The scientists have evidence. It may not be ironclad yet, but it strikes me as sufficiently persuasive at the moment.
GodFixated said:
People believe in crop circles, yet we know that artists make them.
Those people have what they believe is evidence. A thing need not be true for someone to be persuaded by it.
GodFixated said:
People chose to believe everything regardless of evidence.
They have what they understand as evidence; it's just not *good* evidence.
GodFixated said:
I have already said the same point over and over, either you have an understanding or not because I was hoping to move on in this debate, yet you and Telephone keeping me saying the same thing over and over.
We keep saying it because you keep not getting it. As many times as we've tried to explain it, you keep insisting that you can choose to believe a thing--yet you haven't proven it yet. I already stated that I will take your word as truth if you tell me that you have honestly chosen to completely believe that you are a giraffe. You haven't yet.
GodFixated said:
What I don't understand is that I am describing a very basic concept of modern psychology and I didn't expect such an opposition to something that is widely accepted by the psychological and scientific communities.
Source, please? I've never seen it discussed in psychological or scientific circles that one chooses one's beliefs without any form of evidence.