Accountability

[JimfromOhio]

Are we accountable to others? No, because we cannot make choices for other people or vise versa. All we can do is influence them to do what is good and right according to the knowledge of God.




How is what you're saying here different than what I said? To influence also means to encourage. Which is what believers do for one another. But it is only true encouragement if, and only if, it's done with the knowledge of God and the understanding of His Word. We are not responsible for the choices each of us makes because when The Day comes, we will give an account to God for no one ourselves and that is a fact.

Whatever choice you (not you, directly) make is up to you and you alone. That is not anyone else's burden to carry; though we all hope and strive to encourage each other to make the right choice. And the right choice is God and all He wants for us.

Interesting... Church, unity, in Christ means nothing nowadays. Choice comes with pride while accountability comes with humility. The Christian life cannot be lived individually. Hebrews 10:24-25 says, "Let us consider how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds, not forsaking our own assembling together." Christians are either one of two things at any one time: we are either spiritual or fleshly. We're spiritual when we obey will and Word of God, are sensitive to the Spirit, and are moved along by the Spirit because sin is confessed and He's controlling our lives. We're fleshly when we're running our own lives in disobedience to the Lord. A person who's been a Christian five minutes is spiritual if he's walking in the Spirit. All believers are called to pray for, comfort, encourage, exhort, love, and teach one another (Col. 3:12-16). We have a responsibility to deal with one another in regard to sin. It would be nice if we could walk in the Spirit by ourselves. That way we wouldn't need any encouragement, help, or reproof. Thos who are walking by the Spirit are to help those who are fleshly. Otherwise the fleshly are cut off from the perfecting work of God in their lives.

In Galatians 6:1 says "Brethren, even if a man is caught in any trespass, you who are spiritual, restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness; each one looking to yourself, lest you too be tempted."

By the way, I recommend you read Galatians 6 (the whole chapter).

In Matthew 18 our Lord speaks about life in the church (He used the word "church" in verse 17). In verse 15 Jesus says that "if your brother sins, go and reprove him in private." In Galatians 6:1 Paul expressed a principle he had probably learned from Matthew 18.

Bearing another's burdens presupposes establishing a relationship with that person by carrying other people's burdens by meeting regularly with them. Accountability will help someone carry the load of temptation.

There are many Christian books out there that teaches "biblical accountability" but I notice that Christians don't read them because they feel it does not "apply to them".

 

[Leah]

Interesting... Church, unity, in Christ means nothing nowadays. Choice comes with pride while accountability comes with humility. The Christian life cannot be lived individually. Hebrews 10:24-25 says, "Let us consider how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds, not forsaking our own assembling together." Christians are either one of two things at any one time: we are either spiritual or fleshly. We're spiritual when we obey will and Word of God, are sensitive to the Spirit, and are moved along by the Spirit because sin is confessed and He's controlling our lives. We're fleshly when we're running our own lives in disobedience to the Lord. A person who's been a Christian five minutes is spiritual if he's walking in the Spirit. All believers are called to pray for, comfort, encourage, exhort, love, and teach one another (Col. 3:12-16). We have a responsibility to deal with one another in regard to sin. It would be nice if we could walk in the Spirit by ourselves. That way we wouldn't need any encouragement, help, or reproof. Thos who are walking by the Spirit are to help those who are fleshly. Otherwise the fleshly are cut off from the perfecting work of God in their lives.

In Galatians 6:1 says "Brethren, even if a man is caught in any trespass, you who are spiritual, restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness; each one looking to yourself, lest you too be tempted."

By the way, I recommend you read Galatians 6 (the whole chapter).

In Matthew 18 our Lord speaks about life in the church (He used the word "church" in verse 17). In verse 15 Jesus says that "if your brother sins, go and reprove him in private." In Galatians 6:1 Paul expressed a principle he had probably learned from Matthew 18.

Bearing another's burdens presupposes establishing a relationship with that person by carrying other people's burdens by meeting regularly with them. Accountability will help someone carry the load of temptation.

There are many Christian books out there that teaches "biblical accountability" but I notice that Christians don't read them because they feel it does not "apply to them".

Jim, I agree with what you're saying here. I'm not even implying, let alone encouraging, that any christian should live the christian life indidvidually. Why do you keep you insisting that I am?

All I'm saying is that though we come to fellowship, how is it that we are expected to make decisions for each other? For example, you and I are at church and it's time for praise and worship. Everyone stands up and sings and claps along with the music and I tell you to stand up and clap and sing, too. You're either going to stand up and do what I tell you or you're going to stay seated and not join in the praise and worship at all. I see that you're still sitting down not doing anything so I keep asking you to participate in worship, yet you keep silent.

See? I'm not talking about forsaking unity or encouragment to love and do good deeds. No way! All I'm talking about are choices. And every choice one makes has consequences, be they good or bad. Every choice you have is yours to make. Just like we have the choice to either choose life (Jesus) or death (Satan).

Accountability is also about choices.

I also think the problem with some christians is that we tend to forget that being alive in Christ is also being awake to reality. And I also think we tend to use the scriptures and God to run away from reality. But when our eyes are opened to reality and we deal with it as we are living in Christ, we are accused of not being in unity or not being the Church. THAT in itself is not fair at all.

Am I wrong on that, Jim?

 

[JimfromOhio]

Jim, I agree with what you're saying here. I'm not even implying, let alone encouraging, that any christian should live the christian life indidvidually. Why do you keep you insisting that I am?

All I'm saying is that though we come to fellowship, how is it that we are expected to make decisions for each other? For example, you and I are at church and it's time for praise and worship. Everyone stands up and sings and claps along with the music and I tell you to stand up and clap and sing, too. You're either going to stand up and do what I tell you or you're going to stay seated and not join in the praise and worship at all. I see that you're still sitting down not doing anything so I keep asking you to participate in worship, yet you keep silent.

See? I'm not talking about forsaking unity or encouragment to love and do good deeds. No way! All I'm talking about are choices. And every choice one makes has consequences, be they good or bad. Every choice you have is yours to make. Just like we have the choice to either choose life (Jesus) or death (Satan).

Accountability is also about choices.

I also think the problem with some christians is that we tend to forget that being alive in Christ is also being awake to reality. And I also think we tend to use the scriptures and God to run away from reality. But when our eyes are opened to reality and we deal with it as we are living in Christ, we are accused of not being in unity or not being the Church. THAT in itself is not fair at all.

Am I wrong on that, Jim?

You are talking about whether a Christian would be involved spiritually from the heart in a spiritual local church. Life is never fair and that's life. When someone says "that's not fair", that's selfishness talking, not spiritual. When a Christian who is saved by the conviction of the Holy Spirit, this Christian is living in a new Creature with holy conscience rather than sinful conscience. Why come to church if they are NOT going to be part of the worship celebration? Its not a choice but not being spirit-filled worshipper. Worship is in Spirit and we are to worship in Spirit. Where I set my heart is really the critical issue in my spiritual life. It will determine how I perceive everything. If my heart is right and my treasure is toward God, then I am going to have the right kind of spiritual perception. David's close relationship with the Lord caused him to have a broken heart when he sinned (Ps. 51:17). I have a strong desire to be like David because he was a man after God's own heart (1 Samuel 13:14).

If I don't really know what is going on and there is "no connection", how can I get involved and help my church? How can I connect and really help my local church? I cannot serve God if I do not make time to serve Him. The enemy of opportunity is pre-occupation of selfishness that I got too busy to notice any opportunities that God have been giving me. To allow my spiritual gifts to go to waste makes God's opportunities to go to waste.

One of the Devil's beatitudes is "Blessed are they who are too tired and too busy to serve and worship in Church, for they are my best workers." A local Church understands that people are not just looking for a Church to Worship, but a place where they can make real friendship, meaningful fellowship, and truly serving God. The Scriptures teach every believers to be committed to a local church where he or she is loved and cared for, instructed in the things Christ commanded, encouraged to grow spiritually, and serving Christ effectively. Every believer who attends a Church of faith, commitment, and fruitfulness. The primary reason to become a participating member is not to gain a personal advantage, but to identify with the characteristics of biblical maturity and commitment to the mission and future of a local church. We have to realize that a local church's accomplishments will depend upon members' spiritual condition. If the people are submitting to the Holy Spirit, who will give them fruit. Quality is measured by the Christ-like living of a local church members. Let the Holy Spirit do what He will through you and see what He does with you.

If one goes to a church to worship and say "what's in It for me?", that's flesh is talking. Self-interest is something we all understand because since physical birth, as infants, we learned how to get what we want. Can some understand when someone who asks, “Why should I be a Christian? What is in it for me?” It is in our self-interest to ask it and to examine the answer. They are disrupting and ripping and tearing the unity of the church. People are so used to seeing everyone serving their own interests that no other kind of spiritual conduct is expected. "And anyone who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. Whosoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it." (Matthew 10:38-39). Many people are forgetting the REAL purpose of the CHURCH.

What do we do with those people? I see them often in my church and churches over the years. Pray and wait for them to get convicted by the Holy Spirit. After awhile, they are approached by members of the local Church to see if they want to get involved. There are many avenues spiritual leaders and members of a local church can do.

 

[Leah]

No, I am not talking about whether a Christian would be involved spiritually from the heart in a spiritual local church. You are.

I am not having tunnel vision. I am choosing to see things as a whole.

You cannot be alive in Christ and yet, forsake or escape reality.

Accountbility is about choices. And choices come from either accepting or rejecting reality. And reality is the truth about everything.

Isn't that what God does? He helps us to see not only love, but also reality?? Or is that something only bound down to a wordly secular viewpoint that a believer shouldn't concern him or herself with.

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

In MY humble personal opinion...


Any teacher (person, congregation, denomination) that refuses to be accountable for what they teach and self-claim is one I would regard with considerable caution And furthermore, such a teacher who insists that they are their own arbiter of their own teachings/claims and that such is infallible; that they are correct because they so self-claim, isn't too convincing but appears to me to just be an evasion of the entire issue.


My perspective...


Thank you for the discussion and for reading my $0.01


Pax!


- Josiah

 

[JTLauder]

I see the problem with the dispute here is a misunderstanding of "Christian accountability". We all agree that we are first and formost accountable to God. There's no dispute about that, so I'm not going to address that.

The question is whether or not we are "accountable" to each other (fellow Christians). Before that question can really be answered, we need to understand what is accountability according to the Bible.

First, accountability does NOT mean control. We do not give up our ability to make our own choices. Neither does it mean that we serve as prison wardens and parole officers watching each other to catch any wrong doing.

I like JimfromOhio's verse list a lot. It tells us we do not live the Christian life isolated, but as a community. Most people are focusing on the recieving end of "accountability"--that we have to give an account to others. But if you look over these verses, instructions are on the giving end--what we are to do for each other. I think that is very significant. The Bible specifically states that we will give an account of our actions to God. The Bible does not explicitly say we must give an account to each other, BUT we are to be accountable for others.

If you see your Christian brother or sister in the act of some horrible sin, do you ignore it or call them out on it? The other person may not be accountable to you because he/she is responsible for his own actions. But our duty is to love the person and inform them that their sins are not pleasing to God.

Take a closer look at these verses and you will see that these actions are in regard our Christian walk. You rebuke someone to call them out of sin, not because a particular habit annoys you. But in the end, it's still up to that person to make his/her own choices and be responsible for them. But it's not about nitpicking things like how you stand in worship or if you read your Bible 15 minutes a day instead of 5 hours a day, etc.. You start doing that then you're developing a critical heart.

Accountability is all about how we can help each other towards spiritual maturity.

 

[ScottBot]

I hear a lot of talk about accountability.
What are your thoughts or experiences.
Do you feel we need accountability to
other Christians or are we accountable to God.

tyia
sunlover

Both.

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

Both.

How is the Catholic Church accountable to other Christians?

 

[ScottBot]

How is the Catholic Church accountable to other Christians?

The OP is clear that it is about personal accountability. But while you're derailing it this way, Jesus did say, "The greatest leader must be the greatest servant." One of the pope's titles is "The Servant of the Servants of God"

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

The OP is clear that it is about personal accountability. But while you're derailing it this way, Jesus did say, "The greatest leader must be the greatest servant." One of the pope's titles is "The Servant of the Servants of God"

I didn't mean to derail it, but I think the issue of accountability applies to all teachers, IMHO. And, as I understand it, the CC states that it is the "sole teaching authority" and thus a teacher - the only authoritative one. So, it seems to ME, the issue applies to the CC. Do you agree?


I realize that all teachers are accountable to God, but the question then must be raised, Who or what determines how God has arbitrated that? IF a teacher were to say, "I am accountable to God - and I alone determine if God has arbitrated if I'm correct or not," isn't that just evading the whole issue of accountability?


Just wondering...


Pax!


- Josiah

 

[ScottBot]

I didn't mean to derail it, but I think the issue of accountability applies to all teachers, IMHO. And, as I understand it, the CC states that it is the "sole teaching authority" and thus a teacher - the only authoritative one. So, it seems to ME, the issue applies to the CC. Do you agree?


I realize that all teachers are accountable to God, but the question then must be raised, Who or what determines how God has arbitrated that? IF a teacher were to say, "I am accountable to God - and I alone determine if God has arbitrated if I'm correct or not," isn't that just evading the whole issue of accountability?


Just wondering...


Pax!


- Josiah

We claim that the ability to speak morally and doctrinally is a gift of the Holy Spirit, not because the Pope is such a wonderful person. God Himself protects the Church from falling into error.

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

God Himself protects the Church from falling into error.

The issue of this thread is accountability.


So, to what or whom is the sole authoritative teacher, the CC, accountable?

A teacher certainly can self-claim to be inerrant, that's pretty easy to do. But the issue here is accountability. Do you think such a teacher should be accountable? Or it is your position that if a teacher self-claims to be inerrant, therefore they must be and therefore are exempt from accountability?



Thank you.


Pax!


- Josiah

 

[ScottBot]

The issue of this thread is accountability.


So, to what or whom is the sole authoritative teacher, the CC, accountable?

A teacher certainly can self-claim to be inerrant, that's pretty easy to do. But the issue here is accountability. Do you think such a teacher should be accountable? Or it is your position that if a teacher self-claims to be inerrant, therefore they must be and therefore are exempt from accountability?



Thank you.


Pax!


- Josiah

Josiah, if you want to talk about the accountability of the Catholic Church, start a thread on it. This thread is about personal accountability.

 

[Giver]

(Acts 2:38-39) “Peter answered ‘and everyone of you must be baptized in the name of Jesus
Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. The promise that was made is for you and your children, and for al those who are far away, for all those whom the Lord our God will call to himself.”

Peter told us, Christians would receive the Holy Spirit. He didn’t say just the “Church” unless you mean The Company of all Christians who are regarded as a mystic spiritual body. Now if all Christians have the Holy Spirit they all should be accountable to God. The Church’s job is to bring Jesus to people.

Each and every Christian, when anyone tells them anything about God should ask Jesus if it is right or wrong. Now granted I’m talking about mature Christians not babies. That is the churches job, to bring people to know God.

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

Josiah, if you want to talk about the accountability of the Catholic Church, start a thread on it. This thread is about personal accountability.

I took your advise, although I fail to see why the discussion of accountability is different.

 

[Leah]

I see the problem with the dispute here is a misunderstanding of "Christian accountability". We all agree that we are first and formost accountable to God. There's no dispute about that, so I'm not going to address that.

The question is whether or not we are "accountable" to each other (fellow Christians). Before that question can really be answered, we need to understand what is accountability according to the Bible.

First, accountability does NOT mean control. We do not give up our ability to make our own choices. Neither does it mean that we serve as prison wardens and parole officers watching each other to catch any wrong doing.

I like JimfromOhio's verse list a lot. It tells us we do not live the Christian life isolated, but as a community. Most people are focusing on the recieving end of "accountability"--that we have to give an account to others. But if you look over these verses, instructions are on the giving end--what we are to do for each other. I think that is very significant. The Bible specifically states that we will give an account of our actions to God. The Bible does not explicitly say we must give an account to each other, BUT we are to be accountable for others.

If you see your Christian brother or sister in the act of some horrible sin, do you ignore it or call them out on it? The other person may not be accountable to you because he/she is responsible for his own actions. But our duty is to love the person and inform them that their sins are not pleasing to God.

Take a closer look at these verses and you will see that these actions are in regard our Christian walk. You rebuke someone to call them out of sin, not because a particular habit annoys you. But in the end, it's still up to that person to make his/her own choices and be responsible for them. But it's not about nitpicking things like how you stand in worship or if you read your Bible 15 minutes a day instead of 5 hours a day, etc.. You start doing that then you're developing a critical heart.

Accountability is all about how we can help each other towards spiritual maturity.

Though it is understandable how some may have thought I was conveying control over others, that was not my intent nor was I even trying to imply that. The example I gave my have been a poor one, but I think those who really read it understand what I was pointing out. At least, I hope they do.

Btw, I was addressing the OP's question: are we accountable 'to' others. She didn't say are we accountable for others.

 

[JimfromOhio]

What is the difference between personal and spiritual accountability? With Christians, aren't "personal and spiritual" one and the same while unbelievers do not have Holy Spirit dwelling in them? Do we set apart from the world or do we set apart from the Christian community? Between Believers, we are accountable to one and another.

Now regarding Accountability of a Church leader.....When a local church lose their respect for their pastor, it is a sure sign that this pastor has outlived his usefulness to that congregation. It is important for us to relize that the pastor-church relationship is very sensitive and vitally important issue.

This is why we need to support our Spiritual leaders because they are facing a much tougher spiritual warfare than we are. Lack of accountability between Pastors and elders. Elders are our spiritual stewardship who are looking for members spiritual needs and to look at their lives spiritually in from God's perspective. In 2 Corinthians 7:2 says that we "make room for others in our hearts. We have wronged no one, we have corrupted no one, we have exploited no one." This is where "accountability" comes in. I know there are ONLY few churches that have "accountability" ministry between elders and pastors. We are not sinners because we sin; we sin because we are sinners. Pastors and Elders are sinners like we are however, they have to live in higher standards than regular Christians because they are our spiritual leaders. The first and most important step in initiating spiritual intimacy between pastors and elders.

They are to meet, confess, discuss, pray and edify one another. Elders/Bishops have oversight of the church (Acts 20:28; I Pet. 5:2-3) and are thus responsible to rule the congregation (I Tim. 3:5; 5:17; I Thes. 5:12; Heb. 13:7, 17, 24). They judge among the brothers (cf. I Cor. 6:5) and, in contrast to all the members, they do the rebuking (I Tim. 5:20) and the exercise of discipline (Matt. 18:17; I Cor. 5:1-5). I have learned to join a local church that have a STRONG eldership that will make sure the Church will stay pure.

I know pastors and elders will never be sinless but they can live in holy lives according to God's will. By holiness does not mean they will be sinless but they can be blameless. Their roles as a spiritual leaders takes work and requires the commitment of their heart, mind and body. During their training for righteousness along with their struggles with sin, they are to meet and discuss their weaknesses and struggles before they commit sin.

I desire accountability with my wife and my fellow Christian brethren within my local church and community. This is where Paul write in Colossians 3:13 "Bear with each other and forgive whatever grievances you may have against one another. Forgive as the Lord forgave you." Also in Ephesians 4:2 Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love. Galatians 6:2 Carry each other's burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ.

 

[sunlover1]

It is good if you have a friend trusted enough to share things with.
A friend won't run & tell.
A friend won't use what you shared in confidence against you when they get upset with you.
A friend won't ..... Well, you get the idea.

If your are not totally comfortable with it, keep it between you and God.

This is lovely bstow.
I think I feel the same way.
It seems that we really need to be careful who we let 'counsel' us, because we do answer to God, and sometimes people will say well, God told me this or that, when it's their own voice they're hearing.

When people ask me advise I usually give it with the warning to check it against the Bible.

 

[JimfromOhio]

When people ask me advise I usually give it with the warning to check it against the Bible.

Regarding "judging" or "advising"?

 

[sunlover1]

We are in a relationship with Jesus Christ in Spirit as well as with our brothers and sisters in Christ. 1 Corinthians 3:16
Don't you know that you yourselves are God's temple and that God's Spirit lives in you? We are the temple. In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord. And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit.

Ephesians 2:21 In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord. The church of Jesus Christ is one body with many members, ordered in such a way that, through the one Spirit, believers may be built together spiritually into a dwelling place for God. Christians are called to a committed fellowship of believers.

If we have any encouragement from being united with Christ, if any comfort from His love, if any fellowship with the Spirit, if any tenderness and compassion, then make our joy complete by being like-minded, having the same love, being one in spirit and purpose. (Philippians 2:1-2).

If a person resents being accountable with a Christian brethren, I will wonder if the Spirit of Christ is within. Pride often rejects humilty.

I'm not sure that I can agree that a person who might resent being called out on something doesn't have the Holy Spirit in them.
People seem to have a problem with offence everywhere you turn.
I agree that would be pride.

But I mean that there needs to be relationship before we can expect someone to really listen.
Otherwise it might seem meddling.
And there is a fine line there too.

Otherwise, wouldn't most people get a bit puzzled over why we're getting in their business?
Before I can help someone they need to feel safe with me.
I know I would wonder, if there wasn't relationship.

Anyhow, good post, love the verses.

I do believe in community as well.
ty,
sunlover