Accept a request to not pray for someone?

[Casual Observer]

the issue is if a person doesn't want any part of Christianity and your prayers have the intent of helping them be a Christian, then whether your prayers have power or not that can be offensive, because the point is you are trying to make something happen that you know that person doesn't want and they know you're trying to make it happen.

This is why I raised the point of this happening in married couples. If Christians were concerned with "not being offensive," as you put it, we would be worthless. Salt that has lost its savor.

Any Christian willing to do this to make you happy will have hell to pay. Literally. I don't suspect you realized you were asking for that, so I point it out.

 

[Catherineanne]

If you friend or someone you knew was lost and you began to pray for them to be saved and they told you that they do not want you to pray for them, how would that make you feel? If they even became upset and tried to demand that you stop, how would that make you feel?

Would you accept the request and not pray?

If the answer is yes, then why?

Yes, I would. People are entitled to say that they do not want our prayers, and if we then go ahead we are crossing a boundary, whether they know it or not.

We should always respect people's wishes in this matter, imo.

I once had someone pray for me in a situation where I was too much in shock to object (or consent), but afterwards I was very angry about it. The prayer was to make them feel better about walking away from me when I was in difficulty; it was not about me. If they had really cared about me they would have not walked away, or at the very least they would have brought me a cup of tea before they did. (I was in A&E with someone very unwell.) A porter later brought me a cup of tea; that night he represented Christ to me in that place. Those who prayed and walked away did not.

Prayer should never be imposed. If people consent, then go ahead. If they do not, then do something else instead; talk, make tea, go bowling together, but don't pray for them. God will understand. And more importantly, the other person will know that their boundaries are respected.

 

[Catherineanne]

Any Christian willing to do this to make you happy will have hell to pay. Literally. I don't suspect you realized you were asking for that, so I point it out.

Balderdash.

You are seriously suggesting that by respecting someone else's boundaries that means I will go to hell? Have you any Scripture to back up that ludicrous suggestion?

God gave mankind free will, and since then he has respected our right to choose for ourselves. Are you seriously saying that Christians should not respect that which God himself established, and which God himself respects; other people's free will to choose for themselves?

That is one weird way of regarding our faith, if so.

 

[Lee M]

This is why I raised the point of this happening in married couples. If Christians were concerned with "not being offensive," as you put it, we would be worthless. Salt that has lost its savor.

Any Christian willing to do this to make you happy will have hell to pay. Literally. I don't suspect you realized you were asking for that, so I point it out.

I understand quite well what I ask and what it implies.

 

[Lee M]

Balderdash.

You are seriously suggesting that by respecting someone else's boundaries that means I will go to hell? Have you any Scripture to back up that ludicrous suggestion?

God gave mankind free will, and since then he has respected our right to choose for ourselves. Are you seriously saying that Christians should not respect that which God himself established, and which God himself respects; other people's free will to choose for themselves?

That is one weird way of regarding our faith, if so.

Please do not encourage him.

 

[Lee M]

Yes, I would. People are entitled to say that they do not want our prayers, and if we then go ahead we are crossing a boundary, whether they know it or not.

We should always respect people's wishes in this matter, imo.

I once had someone pray for me in a situation where I was too much in shock to object (or consent), but afterwards I was very angry about it. The prayer was to make them feel better about walking away from me when I was in difficulty; it was not about me. If they had really cared about me they would have not walked away, or at the very least they would have brought me a cup of tea before they did. (I was in A&E with someone very unwell.) A porter later brought me a cup of tea; that night he represented Christ to me in that place. Those who prayed and walked away did not.

Prayer should never be imposed. If people consent, then go ahead. If they do not, then do something else instead; talk, make tea, go bowling together, but don't pray for them. God will understand. And more importantly, the other person will know that their boundaries are respected.

Thank you for your thoughtful answer.

 

[HawgWyld]

Just an observation -- have we gotten so sensitive that someone stating "I'll pray for you" could be considered offensive?

I'm honestly curious. Here in the beautiful South, saying "I'll pray for you" is a very common reaction when learning someone is going through a tough time. I've never known it to be an aggressive challenge to someone's beliefs (or, lack thereof).

 

[Lee M]

The OP didn't say prayer was offensive.

If you've read the rest of the thread then you've read the rest of what I said and I've tried to explain myself as best I can.

 

[HawgWyld]

I did read it, Lee, and I understand your point.

My point is that, around here, we're talking about essentially a non-issue.

It's a surprising topic, is all, and that may have more to do with cultural differences than anything else.

 

[Catherineanne]

Please do not encourage him.

I am afraid if someone is talking balderdash about my faith I will tend to say so. What was said has no Scriptural basis.

 

[Catherineanne]

Just an observation -- have we gotten so sensitive that someone stating "I'll pray for you" could be considered offensive?

I'm honestly curious. Here in the beautiful South, saying "I'll pray for you" is a very common reaction when learning someone is going through a tough time. I've never known it to be an aggressive challenge to someone's beliefs (or, lack thereof).

You would think so, wouldn't you?

However, the story I described did happen. I was with someone in hospital in the early hours, and I did not know if that person was going to make it or not. Some people who I knew perhaps 20 years earlier happened to come along, saw me in shock, and offered to pray for us. I was unable to say anything at all; I just looked at them. They proceeded to pray, and then they just walked away. I was left alone.

That was indeed offensive. Not because they offered, not even because they prayed, presumptous as that was, but because they thought that as Christians that was the only thing they had to offer, and they could then go away with a clear conscience, and leave God to look after me; it was not their problem.

I think it is far better to be sensitive to the situation rather than regard prayer as a panacea and then walk away. So in my view we should ask, and we should listen to the reply before going ahead.

 

[Catherineanne]

Thank you for your thoughtful answer.

You are more than welcome. Please let me know if you ever would want prayers offered on your behalf. Until you do, I will of course not impose them; perhaps I can offer you my best wishes for the future instead, but only if that is acceptable to you.

 

[cerette]

deleted

 

[Casual Observer]

This is why I raised the point of this happening in married couples. If Christians were concerned with "not being offensive," as you put it, we would be worthless. Salt that has lost its savor.

Any Christian willing to do this to make you happy will have hell to pay. Literally. I don't suspect you realized you were asking for that, so I point it out.

Balderdash.

You are seriously suggesting that by respecting someone else's boundaries that means I will go to hell? Have you any Scripture to back up that ludicrous suggestion?

God gave mankind free will, and since then he has respected our right to choose for ourselves. Are you seriously saying that Christians should not respect that which God himself established, and which God himself respects; other people's free will to choose for themselves?

That is one weird way of regarding our faith, if so.

You are talking about a completely different situation than I am. You are referring to someone going through the visible motions of prayer, face-to-face, and in your case in lieu of actually doing anything when it was quite in their power to do something needed.

I am not, and I don't think the OP was either. Maybe that's what he meant and I just read it wrong?

 

[OntheHorizon]

After reading the OP and all that the person also said in this thread... it seems pretty clear the person was aware of how you believed you could do something needed, he even admitted that such prayer was effectual somehow but he didn't understand what that power was... and he still wanted the prayer to stop.

Well he didn't say what HE wanted, but that's what his questions concerned. He asked why you could feel entitled to influence his life against his will... obviously he was talking about the notion of your prayers having a real effect.

His concern was whether you would honor his quest and if not... why you felt ok to go against his will.

It had nothing to do with your prayers being helpful or not.

 

[Casual Observer]

^ ^ Which goes right back to my first point in this thread, that it is not as simple as "going against his will." Any prayers that defy the will of the person being prayed for are not effectual. To pretend that forces us to "honor his request" of not praying for him at all is simply overly-simplistic.

This is why I raised the point of this happening in married couples. If Christians were concerned with "not being offensive," as you put it, we would be worthless. Salt that has lost its savor.

Any Christian willing to do this to make you happy will have hell to pay. Literally. I don't suspect you realized you were asking for that, so I point it out.

I understand quite well what I ask and what it implies.

Which means you KNOW you are expecting Christians to fear you, rather than fear God. Maltheist is the wrong word to describe what you're up to, but if you understand this as you claim you are still actively trying to harm theists. So you are being "mal" (against) theists. Don't know if a word exists for that.

Here's the facts: you are but flesh, and not anything for any of us to fear.

"The LORD [is] my light and my salvation; whom shall I fear? the LORD [is] the strength of my life; of whom shall I be afraid?" (Psalm 27)

 

[Casual Observer]

It doesn't really matter what I think your prayers cause... it's the fact that you are trying to go against my will in my very own life and for some reason you feel entitled to do this, somehow what you want for me is more important that what I want for me and you are actively trying to do it and you feel like you have such a right... what that implies about how you feel about me is enough.
I'm just trying to explain the sentiment to you.

Does that make anymore sense?

Your sentiment is valid if the only factors are your will and the will of another human being.

Enter the will of God and the whole things becomes much more complex, and no longer so black and white. In fact it changes the entire implications of what a person may "feel about you," as you put it. The driving force of prayer is NOT what another human being wants, whether that be for you or anyone else. James has this to say about any such prayer:

"Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume [it] upon your lusts." (4:3)

Prayer becomes powerful when we ask according to His will. The role of what the person doing the praying wants is especially insignificant. How what you want or do not want has any impact or no is between you and God.

 

[OntheHorizon]

Lee M

I would honor the request, God honors our will and so will I.

 

[HawgWyld]

You would think so, wouldn't you?

However, the story I described did happen. I was with someone in hospital in the early hours, and I did not know if that person was going to make it or not. Some people who I knew perhaps 20 years earlier happened to come along, saw me in shock, and offered to pray for us. I was unable to say anything at all; I just looked at them. They proceeded to pray, and then they just walked away. I was left alone.

That was indeed offensive. Not because they offered, not even because they prayed, presumptous as that was, but because they thought that as Christians that was the only thing they had to offer, and they could then go away with a clear conscience, and leave God to look after me; it was not their problem.

I think it is far better to be sensitive to the situation rather than regard prayer as a panacea and then walk away. So in my view we should ask, and we should listen to the reply before going ahead.

Well, that is offensive. Let's take my father, for example. He's in the hospital and might not make it through his illness. Members of our church have done a lot more than simply pray -- they've comforted my mother and all of us. They've helped with the nitty gritty of attending to the needs of a man who can't even walk on his own right now.

Simply praying and walking away is, I think, the easy way out. Jesus has called us to give more of ourselves than that.

 

[Catherineanne]

Well, that is offensive. Let's take my father, for example. He's in the hospital and might not make it through his illness. Members of our church have done a lot more than simply pray -- they've comforted my mother and all of us. They've helped with the nitty gritty of attending to the needs of a man who can't even walk on his own right now.

Simply praying and walking away is, I think, the easy way out. Jesus has called us to give more of ourselves than that.

Thank you for your understanding; that means a great deal. I am very sorry about your father; I am glad your church is helping. Laborare est orare; to work is to pray. St Benedict.

The person I described was my former husband. He did not die that night, but I thought he was dying. He is dead now.