Absurdities of so called science

[AV1611VET]

Actually the religious conservatives didn't want anything to do with him. The religious conservatives/romans mocked/killed him because he was taking their power away from them. If Jesus returned today as he did the first time I guarantee the religious conservatives of today would do the same thing as the Pharisees did.

Interesting you would say this --- as I'm on record as saying that if Jesus showed up and did today what He did back then --- the atheists and scientists would be in the forefront shouting for His crucifixion.

 

[Nathan Poe]

Interesting you would say this --- as I'm on record as saying that if Jesus showed up and did today what He did back then --- the atheists and scientists would be in the forefront shouting for His crucifixion.

It's interesting to you that you're wrong on record again?

The rest of us have gotten used to your mistakes long ago.

 

[Nathan Poe]

See for yourself then, mr scientist.

Wrong again, AV -- I never claimed to be a scientist, just someone who knows more about science than you do. (a category which includes nearly every bipedal creature on Earth, and possibly my potted plant as well)

Apply your Scientific Method to what I said --- check it out for quality --- then come back and tell me I'm wrong and expect me to respect your science.

Seeing as how it does nothing to glorify you, you're going to reject it anyway.

Keep this up --- I like it --- the lurkers need to see this.

(I'm half-tempted to going back to calling you guys "scientists", unless you guys start acknowledging our points.)

The lurkers need to see that, too -- speaking of yourself in the plural again.

 

[BananaSlug]

Interesting you would say this --- as I'm on record as saying that if Jesus showed up and did today what He did back then --- the atheists and scientists would be in the forefront shouting for His crucifixion.

Nope, because if he did the miracles to them they would believe. If a man turned water into wine without adding anything at all to it, or if he was able to actually raise a man who has been dead for 3 days, or feed 5,000 with just a few fish and loaves of bread with baskets left over, there would be no possible way for it to explain it in natural terms.

Apparently a people walking around healing debilitating disease was common back then, the Pharisees complained about Jesus doing it on the Sabbath. I would have been amazed to see someone cause a blind man to see or a crippled man to walk without the help of modern medicine!

• 1 And he entered again into the synagogue; and there was a man there which had a withered hand. 2 And they watched him, whether he would heal him on the sabbath day; that they might accuse him. 3 And he saith unto the man which had the withered hand, Stand forth. 4 And he saith unto them, Is it lawful to do good on the sabbath days, or to do evil? To save life, or to kill? But they held their peace.

• 5 And when he had looked round about on them with anger, being grieved for the hardness of their hearts, he saith unto the man, Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it out and his hand was restored whole as the other. 6 And the Pharisees went forth, and straightway took counsel with the Herodians against him, how they might destroy him. Mark 3:1-6

 

[Nathan Poe]

Nope, because if he did the miracles to them they would believe. If a man turned water into wine without adding anything at all to it, or if he was able to actually raise a man who has been dead for 3 days, or feed 5,000 with just a few fish and loaves of bread with baskets left over, there would be no possible way for it to explain it in natural terms.

Interestingly enough, performing miracles is exactly how Jesus was able to convert the Atheists and other assorted non-believers of his time -- it was the religious conservatives who still didn't accept him as messiah even after proof of the miracles.

So, AV's claim is not supported by Scripture -- meaning, by his own definitions, he's wrong again.

 

[AV1611VET]

Nope, because if he did the miracles to them they would believe.

Jesus says otherwise ---

30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

 

[gaara4158]

Just taking time out to prove you wrong --- and to make my point about newbies thinking they know everything I ever said or didn't say --- and about you guys being so quick to judge me wrong, you make rookie mistakes --- and...

I've already soundly defeated you in that discussion, AV, but like everything that doesn't point to the conclusion that the AV1611 Bible is correct, you totally ignored and forgot it.

But I guess if you can't prove me wrong about the Bible, science, and history, then you're naturally going to have to resort to whining about how we don't know you well enough unless we've been members as long as you and have gone through every single one of your posts.
If "newbies" are able to figure you out so quickly, maybe you're doing something wrong.

 

[gaara4158]

Jesus says otherwise ---

Sounds like he's making excuses. "I only do miracles for people who already believe I can."
...You know what else only works for people who believe it will?

 

[Nathan Poe]

Jesus says otherwise ---

Jesus' own experiences prove him wrong. Remember Luke 7:1-10?

 

[BananaSlug]

Jesus says otherwise ---

Mark 7:5-7 He answered and said to them, "Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written: 'This people honors Me with their lips, But their heart is far from Me. And in vain they worship Me, Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.'

Matt 23:27-29 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which indeed appear beautiful outwardly, but inside are full of dead men's bones and all uncleanness. Even so you also outwardly appear righteous to men, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.

 

[Split Rock]

Cute --- I figured that was coming --- I just didn't think it would come from the older ones here.

Then you acknowledge that you think you are just like Jesus? That you are being "persecuted" just like Jesus was? Does thinking that make you feel closer to Jesus? Or does it just expand your already bloated ego?

 

[Split Rock]

Interesting you would say this --- as I'm on record as saying that if Jesus showed up and did today what He did back then --- the atheists and scientists would be in the forefront shouting for His crucifixion.

And I am now on record as saying that you are wrong again about the others here that you slander.

 

[NailsII]

Interesting you would say this --- as I'm on record as saying that if Jesus showed up and did today what He did back then --- the atheists and scientists would be in the forefront shouting for His crucifixion.

Sorry AV but I have to disagree.
If Jesus showed up today and performed miracles as described in the bible many atheists and scientists would, being evidence-based people, have little choice but to repent and follow.
Without wishing to sound too dismissive of religion in general, I think you'll find that it is the religious who would be wanting him punished.

And even if I'm wrong on this and you are right, then crucifiction is something that would not enter the equation. Jail perhaps (for fraud?) but not torture and death.
That is only a punishment that the god-fearing would see fit.

Note how the pagan Pilate offered to spare Jesus, but the god-fearing Jews wanted him dead (allegedly)......

 

[AV1611VET]

Sorry AV but I have to disagree.

Fair enough.

If Jesus showed up today and performed miracles as described in the bible many atheists and scientists would, being evidence-based people, have little choice but to repent and follow.

On the basis of what evidence? Jesus could stand right in front of you and create an apple ex nihilo into the palm of your hand, and, according to my Apple Challenge thread, you'd consider Him everything but real.

Note specifically as you browse that thread the number of times someone suggested "taking him to Guam", or making him do it again, or videotaping it, or whatever. I have a feeling that if He refused to co-operate, it would be curtains.

Here's a little scenario --- and, of course, I could be all wrong --- it wouldn't be the first time:

Let's assume someone showed up for 24 hours to do some pretty spectacular things:

SCIENTISTS: Make an apple appear out of nowhere.
PERFORMER: There you go.
SCIENTISTS: Wow! How'd you do that?
PERFORMER: It's called "ex nihilo" --- out of nothing.
SCIENTISTS: Do it again.
PERFORMER: There you go.
SCIENTISTS: Hmmm --- we need to analyze this --- please accompany us to...
PERFORMER: Sorry, I have other things to do right now.
SCIENTISTS: But we need to test you under controlled conditions in a laboratory setting.
PERFORMER: Sorry, I have other things to do right now.
SCIENTISTS: You "appear" to have a vast amount of power at your disposal to just be walking around unchecked.
PERFORMER: I'll be gone at this time tomorrow.
SCIENTISTS: What's your business here?
PERFORMER: To demonstrate the fact that there are other forces in this universe you don't know about.
SCIENTISTS: Like what? What are you planning to further demonstrate?
PERFORMER: Healing, for example --- complete and instantaneous healing --- at your local hospital.
SCIENTISTS: Well, first, please accom...
PERFORMER: Sorry, I have other things to do right now.
SCIENTISTS: Someone call 911!

 

[MoonLancer]

Fair enough.On the basis of what evidence? Jesus could stand right in front of you and create an apple ex nihilo into the palm of your hand, and, according to my Apple Challenge thread, you'd consider Him everything but real.

actually you cant even get your own challenge right. its actually only a valid comparison if I try to convince someone else Jesus created an apple ex nihilo. they would be right to think i was crazy. If this is the mythical Jesus though, I'm sure he could think of something to do that would could be falsifiable, if had to explain what he did to someone else.

 

[AV1611VET]

they would be right to think i was crazy.

They might think you're crazy --- but in this case they would be wrong --- wouldn't they?

 

[MoonLancer]

SCIENTISTS: Make an apple appear out of nowhere.
PERFORMER: There you go.
SCIENTISTS: Wow! How'd you do that?
PERFORMER: It's called "ex nihilo" --- out of nothing.
SCIENTISTS: Do it again.
PERFORMER: There you go.
SCIENTISTS: Hmmm --- we need to analyze this --- please accompany us to...
PERFORMER: Sorry, I have other things to do right now.
SCIENTISTS: But we need to test you under controlled conditions in a laboratory setting.
PERFORMER: Sorry, I have other things to do right now.
SCIENTISTS: You "appear" to have a vast amount of power at your disposal to just be walking around unchecked.
PERFORMER: I'll be gone at this time tomorrow.
SCIENTISTS: What's your business here?
PERFORMER: To demonstrate the fact that there are other forces in this universe you don't know about.
SCIENTISTS: Like what? What are you planning to further demonstrate?
PERFORMER: Healing, for example --- complete and instantaneous healing --- at your local hospital.
SCIENTISTS: Well, first, please accom...
PERFORMER: Sorry, I have other things to do right now.
SCIENTISTS: Someone call 911!

and what if the guy is simply really good at magic tricks? Every time you see a magic trick, do you think its real? that the tricks they are preforming is actually magic or miracle?

EDIT!

They might think you're crazy --- but in this case they would be wrong --- wouldn't they?

not unless the Jesus was simply doing a magic trick, and i was fooled and my friend laughs at me. Although are you saying Jesus couldn't preforming magic or a miracle that couldn't be varied by others not in his presence? Are you really going to put such a silly limitation to god? No evidence is good evidence? what silly way to live.

 

[AV1611VET]

and what if the guy is simply really good at magic tricks?

I would assume that if someone can do this --- he doesn't need magic.

Every time you see a magic trick, do you think its real?

No --- what does this line of questioning have to do with anything?

that the tricks they are preforming is actually magic or miracle?

His exact words: ex nihilo.

 

[MoonLancer]

I would assume that if someone can do this --- he doesn't need magic.

and how do you know the difference?

No --- what does this line of questioning have to do with anything?

Do you take everything you see at face value? If a magic trick looks like ex nihiolo, how do you know the difference? by what they call it? if the action is identical, how do you know if its a trick or if its real?

His exact words: ex nihilo.

so you still believe the old quarter in the ear trick as long as its claimed to be ex nihilo? how do you know the difference?

 

[AV1611VET]

and how do you know the difference?
Do you take everything you see at face value. If a magic trick looks like ex nihiolo, how do you know the difference?
so you still beleave the old quarter in the ear trick as long as its claimed to be ex nihilo? how do you know the difference?

MoonLancer, I'm saying it really happened so as to cut the scenario way short.

For the sake of brevity, let's go with actual, omnipotent, the real McCoy, ex nihilo.

And again, I'll ask you this question a second time:

• Why would someone stoop to using magic, if they can really do it?