Abstinence

[katautumn]

Morningstar, you raise a very valid point. When I used to be involved in church, I knew plenty of youth who were praising one another for remaining "pure", even though most of them had experimented with other sexual acts. For them it was merely semantics and a technicality. I've always been a believer in never doing something halfway.

While I never did adhere to the waiting until marriage mentality, I do tend to agree with many of the posters here when they ask people, "why go as far as you possibly can without technically having sex?" In my opinion, most of the gratifying sex acts can be just as intimate and emotionally binding as the intercourse itself. If someone has made a commitment to remain abstinent I have respect for their choice; however, it sort of defeats the purpose if people are pushing things so far that they've already engaged in everything else but the intercourse.

Just my .10

 

[Downshift]

Yeah, well I avoid "3rd base" because I know that once I get that far, there's no turning back for me and my hormones.
I will let my hands wander during, but never "imitate" intercourse.
...just not when laying on her bed, because for me in that setting, even "1st base" is pushing it.

 

[tessas212]

Downshift - I must say, I've experienced the same thing. I spent many nights at my boyfriend's house. The first time I stayed it was because my mother had tried to hit me and she spit on me, so I just left and needed somewhere to stay at 12 pm and I knew he woudln't mind coming to get me. When we were that awesome, I kept thinking how safe we were. How great. And we did remain careful for a while, but soon became over confident.

I'd be very very careful putting yourself in taht kind of situation. It is hard enough for two people taht both really want to abstain.. but only one person? And the other constantly taunting? Ya, you're putting yourself overtop hot coals right there buddy.

 

[newbeliever02072005]

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[Downshift]

Thanks for keeping the topic under control and reopening it, Mods.

As far as an update... not much has happened.
All last weekend her friend from out of town was staying with her and her roommate. The only day we could have hung out, I had plans with my sister that I wasnt about to cancel, though she was texting me non stop all weekend, especially when she was stuck as the only sober person at a party.


P.S.
Sorry but the site says I cannot reply to PMs until I have 15 posts.
I'm working on that...

 

[peacemaker19800]

I saw this and feel compeeled to argree with some people on here... don't be tempted. I am not a virgin, but since i have given my life to the Lord i have not been intimate in 4 years. I am proud of it. I plan to stay celebate until marriage. Have you guys just considered holding one another and just kissing and cuddling?

 

[JCFantasy23]

Down, just make sure to let her know the virginity thing at some point and have it come up somehow. Without telling her she may just get mixed signals and think you have some other ulterior motive or just aren't interested in her. Women can work this way, trust me. Once she knows the reason later though, she wouldn't get insecurities about that.

Don't worry about her trying to get you to break your vow; if she tried to do that, that would just reveal to you a huge character flaw.

It's only realistic that you have be alone with her if you want to develop a serious relationship, though. You can't avoid temptation everywhere in life and function. Just hold true to your guns and don't go overboard with the "cuddling" if it ever comes up, and you should be fine. I couldn't imagine what sort of build-up sexually a 23 year old virgin would have, but I imagine it's pretty big for the average person. If you start feeling too close to breaking your vow, just back off and try to distract yourself, that's the best advice I can offer.

 

[Downshift]

Wow, so it's been over 2 months... and I've accomplished nothing.
Nothing I set out to, anyway.

I suck.

A lot has happened though.

I need to mention first that she's my co worker who's been in my department for about 6 months longer than me... and a month ago she got promoted to the position that "oversees" my department.
If there are no actual managers present, I answer to her dept and if we need help we're supposed to ask her dept.
I HATE that.
I know it's a male pride thing, but... idk.
So I basically do my job without interacting with her dept at all so I never need to ask her for help or ask her something that she doesnt know.
The other issue with this is that we're not supposed to date at work if we're in "power differentiated" positions.
She's not my direct manager, but its' a grey area, so I dont interact with her at work.
I dont go over to her desk, she doesnt come to mine, and we hang out with diff people on our lunches and breaks.
It's really awkward and I think it bothers her, but I wont have it any other way.
Again, this is just another serious issue that we have never actually talked about because we only speak in metaphors.
However, this is all irrelevant outside of work.

Anyway, update:

I was going over to her place often over the last couple months.
I'd bring over my 24" iMac and we'd watch movies while sitting on her bed.
I'd spend the night every night, but nothing would really happen.

One night...
The movie ended and the iMac's screen turned off after 4 minutes and we were alone laying on her bed as usual in the dark.
Normally we'd just talk about personal stuff or flirt until we fell asleep, but... this one night...
She rolled from her back to her side facing me, put her arm around me and wrapped her leg around mine.
Then we started talking/flirting softly as she caressed my back and embraced me.
I embraced her also after a few seconds.
I started to justify my desires in my head and kept thinking, "A kiss isnt sex..."
She called out my desires for her in a way I couldnt deny without directly disagreeing with and insulting her.
And man is she good, I was trapped in her cage.
In her room, in the dark, in her bed, in her arms...
I kissed her.
She pulled me close and kissed me back.
The kiss escalated, I rolled on top of her, my hands wandered, we both wanted more...
But I found I was still in control, and I made sure it plateaued there for quite a few minutes.
Afterwards, our conversation changed, and there were no doubts about our feelings for each other anymore... but my doubts about her boundaries remained.
Maybe my denials about her boundaries are what remain...

This continued on the nights I'd go over for about 2 weeks.
I'd go over at night or she'd come to my place, getting there after 11, usually after midnite, we'd watch a movie on the bed, turn the movie and computer screen off (sometimes early), make out on the bed, then eventually sleep.
Maybe it was talking to my sister, or the fact that we went further physically every nite than the nite before and I was worried that I'd lose control if it kept up, but I decided about 2 weeks ago that I would never go over to her house at night for a month and see where the relationship ended up.
The issue is, however, that besides spending time at her or my house after midnite on weeknights, we really have no other time to do anything else...

The other main problem with us being co workers is our schedule conflict.
I work Tuesday thru Friday nights from 12:30pm to 11:00pm.
I work that shift because I go to school in the mornings... and I like my weekends off.
Also, screw working Mondays, haha!
Her schedule is earlier, and she works 5 days a week; Tuesday to Saturday, 11:00am to 7:30pm.
After she gets off at 7:30, I'm stuck at work till 11 so she hangs out with her friends until then.
After 11, there's nothing to do in this city but go over to her house and spend time alone with her in her room...
Sundays she goes to church with her parents in a city 30 miles away and then spends the day with them.
Saturdays after work and Mondays, she spends the day with her roommate and friends; this has been their routine since before I met her and I dont really wanna come between that.
Then we go back to work on Tuesday again...

I mean, without going over to her place at night, the only things I can do is make her choose between her friends and family... and me.
She either have to ditch her friends on Saturday and Monday, or her family on Sunday.
It seems like she doesnt want to though, like she's keeping her schedule locked out so the only time I can spend time with her is after midnight.

The other big problem is that I still havent directly asked if she's a virgin yet.
I suck.
I still dont know how to ask without accusing her of being a [wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth] <--- haha, I love that edit .
But... given her, ahem, "physical experience" while we're in her bed... I really dont think she is.
I want her to be, and I know I'm just in denial that she is.
There is, however, still a chance that she might want to reform.
Since I've been with her I can tell my morals are having an effect on her.
She tells me she wants to stop cussing, go to church every week, and stop doing other things that are bad habits that she picked up from her friends and roommate that are not Christians.
I also told her that eating McDonalds two meals a day everyday was bad and she should stop.
Then she told me that drinking the caffeine in 8 cans of Coke is bad, so we agreed to both stop eating all fast food and drinking caffeine permanently until we break the habits. Like an "on your honor" type thing.
So I am having an influence on her and I hope that when I'm able to back her into a corner and admit she had sex with either of her two exes, I can explain why I'm a virgin and get her to see sex in the light that I see it in; the way God intended sex to be.

Man, I really should break it off... but I like her; I see potential.
I dont want to unless I know for sure she isnt a virgin and doesnt want to reform.
Gah! I really need to stop being afraid of getting the answer I dont want and find a way to bring it up...

 

[godsgoodgift]

Well I would just talk about it.... I've dated enough to know it's easier when they are throwing the moves on, to say something like " i'm saving myself for marriage, how do you feel about that? and see where it goes from there." I don't think it's wrong to stay at her/your place together. People believe what they want. I have slept in the same room with my bf without having sex with him. ... it's fine... imo