Abstinence

[Dannager]

I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT ABSTINENCE ONLY EDUCATION.

I'm talking about simply presenting abstinence as what it is. The only way to be 100% safe from an STD and an attainable but not necessarily easy goal. IMO, there are a lot of kids that engage in sex largely because they are hammered with the message that not doing it is impossible.

Your opinion isn't supported by reality, unfortunately. Kids engage in sex because they a) have a hormonal incentive to do so, and b) are encouraged by their peers and their environment. Most sex ed programs never say something like "You guys are going to have sex anyway."

 

[Nadiine]

Here's what I wonder, why does something have to be proven to cause serious harm for it to be wrong??

Just becuz humans have desires or urges, doesn't mean it's "good" or "right" to fulfill them anytime, anywhere or with anyone.
Things can be right and wrong no matter if there's no serious harm done visibly - or that is observed at the time.
I've had many times where hindsight showed me I shouldn't have slept with someone (for reasons I knew beforhand)... is that "right" to do becuz premarital sex is 'right' in and of itself? (in your opinion)

In the case of abstinance, sexual partners/premarital sex IS shown to do alot of harm to many people in many ways.... yet even in this case where harm IS shown to occur, it's being ignored and condoned as a "good thing to practice" despite the SECULAR evidences...

IMO, now even when we see alot of harm from something, it gets justified too.
So no matter WHAT, you will find reasons to justify and support harmful behaviour if it suits what you want to do and provides pleasure & benefits.

Interesting to say the least.

 

[irateional]

Here's what I wonder, why does something have to be proven to cause serious harm for it to be wrong??

Just becuz humans have desires or urges, doesn't mean it's "good" or "right" to fulfill them anytime, anywhere or with anyone.
Things can be right and wrong no matter if there's no serious harm done visibly - or that is observed at the time.
I've had many times where hindsight showed me I shouldn't have slept with someone (for reasons I knew beforhand)... is that "right" to do becuz premarital sex is 'right' in and of itself? (in your opinion)

In the case of abstinance, sexual partners/premarital sex IS shown to do alot of harm to many people in many ways.... yet even in this case where harm IS shown to occur, it's being ignored and condoned as a "good thing to practice" despite the SECULAR evidences...

IMO, now even when we see alot of harm from something, it gets justified too.
So no matter WHAT, you will find reasons to justify and support harmful behaviour if it suits what you want to do and provides pleasure & benefits.

Interesting to say the least.

Counter-point.

If you look at things from a scientific perspective, our urges and desires are good. Those creatures in nature which "win" at life are the ones that survive.

Those that have lots of babies (lots of sex) in the prime of their youth, and do lots of other things of that nature are the ones that still exist. Sex is only harmful if you're stupid about it.

Gonna have sex? Use a condom. Know your partner. Accept the reality of your situation. Abstinence fails because once you've had a boyfriend or girlfriend in a meaningful way, the hormones are insane.

When you're in a "real" relationship with someone whom you actually are attracted to physically and mentally, your body is DESIGNED to basically turn on the hormones and desire sex. It's a natural urge, and it's part of the reason humans have survived so far. While your children might deal with this fine, remember this.

Not everyone in school believes the same as you. Some kids aren't being told having sex is bad, or anything of that sort. By teaching only abstinence, you're basically hurting those children who will have un-protected sex.

It is ALWAYS better to be safe than sorry.

 

[Digit]

I could not figure out where to put this so if it needs moved be my guest.
I received this in an email. While I am not sure if this is actual it certainly makes a point.
Abstinence
(By Robert Layton)
I WAS HOLDING A NOTICE FROM my 13-year-old son's
school announcing a meeting to preview the new course
in sexuality. Parents could examine the curriculum and
take part in an actual lesson presented exactly as it
would be given to the students.
When I arrived at the school, I was surprised to
discover only about a dozen parents there. As we
waited for the presentation, I thumbed through page
after page of instructions in the prevention of
pregnancy or disease. I found abstinence mentioned
only in passing. When the teacher arrived with the
school nurse, she asked if there were any questions. I
asked why abstinence did not play a noticeable part in
the material.
What happened next was shocking. There was a great
deal of laughter, and someone suggested that if I
thought abstinence had any merit, I should go back to
burying my head in the sand. The teacher and the nurse
said nothing as I drowned in a sea of embarrassment.
My mind had gone blank, and I could think of nothing
to say. The teacher explained to me that the job of
the school was to teach "facts, " and the home was
responsible for moral training. I sat in silence for
the next 20 minutes as the course was explained. The
other parents seemed to give their unqualified support
to the materials.
"Donuts, at the back, " announced the teacher during
the break. "I'd like you to put on the name tags we
have prepared-they're right by the donuts . . . and
mingle with the other parents. "Everyone moved to the
back of the room. As I watched them affixing their
name tags and shaking hands, I sat deep in thought. I
was ashamed that I had not been able to convince them
to include a serious discussion of abstinence in the
materials. I uttered a silent prayer for guidance. My
thoughts were interrupted by the teacher's hand on my
shoulder. "Won't you join the others, Mr. Layton?" The
nurse smiled sweetly at me. "The donuts are good."
"Thank you, no, " I replied. "Well, then, how about a
name tag? I'm sure the others would like to meet you."
"Somehow I doubt that, " I replied. "Won't you please
join them?" she coaxed. Then I heard a still, small
voice whisper, "Don't go." The instruction was
unmistakable. "Don't go!" "I'll just wait here, " I
said.
When the class was called back to order, the teacher
looked around the long table and thanked everyone for
putting on name tags. She ignored me. Then she said,
"Now we're going to give you the same lesson we'll be
giving your children. Everyone please peel off your
name tags." I watched in silence as the tags came off.
"Now, then, on the back of one of the tags, I drew a
tiny flower. Who has it, please?" The gentleman across
from me held it up. "Here it is!" "All right, " she
said. "The flower represents disease. Do you recall
with whom you shook hands?" He pointed to a couple of
people. "Very good, " she replied. "The handshake in
this case represents intimacy. So the two people you
had contact with now have the disease." There was
laughter and joking among the parents. The teacher
continued, "And whom did the two of you shake hands
with?" The point was well taken, and she explained how
this lesson would show students how quickly disease is
spread. "Since we all shook hands, we all have the
disease."
It was then that I heard the still, small voice again.
"Speak now," it said, "but be humble." I noted wryly
the latter admonition, then rose from my chair. I
apologized for any upset I might have caused earlier,
congratulated the teacher on an excellent lesson that
would impress the youth, and concluded by saying I had
only one small point I wished to make. "Not all of us
were infected, " I said. "One of us . . . abstained."

That's awesome. Thank you very much for sharing that.

Cheers!
Digit.

 

[Digit]

I wish I could be less confident in reaching the end of a thread like this and hoping not to find Dannager spouting his usual world-bound wisdom.

Someone posts a wonderful story that anyone can understand, and all you can do is try to disillusion those. Sometimes I wonder what life has done to you to make you so...

Digit

 

[irateional]

I wish I could be less confident in reaching the end of a thread like this and hoping not to find Dannager spouting his usual world-bound wisdom.

Someone posts a wonderful story that anyone can understand, and all you can do is try to disillusion those. Sometimes I wonder what life has done to you to make you so...

Digit

What?

The story is bull####.

If you wore a glove, you wouldn't be infected. Or are you not capable of using one?

You're the one that doesn't want to accept reality. You want to make everything natural bad, you're saying "don't enjoy life". God didn't give me senses and a world like this, so I could spend all my days hating it.

 

[Digit]

What?

The story is bull####.

If you wore a glove, you wouldn't be infected. Or are you not capable of using one?

You're the one that doesn't want to accept reality. You want to make everything natural bad, you're saying "don't enjoy life". God didn't give me senses and a world like this, so I could spend all my days hating it.

Wow, talk about out of left-field... where did you come from?

Look, the story had a very clear message, and like I said anyone can understand. Clearly I needed to quantify that and add in something like, "Anyone with sense." as I often forget many people lack that around here. You are my case in point.

The basic idea is that if you abstain from sex until you have found your life partner, you will avoid gettng some nasty STD. It's odd how God's laws cover so many facets, and yet mankind has to come up with dozens of tiny laws to continue living life the way they want. Safe-sex, abortion and so on. All because we just can't wait! Gotta have it now.

That's the mark of a true child. A child kicks and screams because he wants his toy NOW. An adult can wait and bear the cost of something in the present, in order to plan for a better and more rewarding future. Are you a child or an adult?

So you are unhappy because you can't go around having sex with everyone you want and think God wants you to hate life. Buddy, God has made sex to be enjoyed! He doesn't want you to hate life, I'm not sure how you get the impression. He does however demand some sort of acceptance of Him and how He has asked you to live.

If you don't like that, hmmm, that's unlucky. Even regular common sense dictates it's best to wait until you have found the person you want to be with. Even protection is flawed and not 100%, what if, just what if you are in the 0.001% that gets someone pregnant. It's odd how it's not a big deal when we hear of it happening to others, yet when it's you suddenly it will seem very much a big deal. You are messing with someone elses life, not just yours. Grow up.

You know, a friend of mine was upset recently as her boyfriend was pushing for sex, and when she said she wanted to wait, he wasn't keen on the relationship. After each conversation he said, "I love you." and so did she. Problem was, she meant it. He didn't. He admitted he wanted to have more experiences. What a wonderful outlook, I love you, but I want to have sex with some other women before I settle down. Truly, that man's wife is so lucky. >_>

Please have something new to say other than, "I really wanna have sex, so I'm going to bash every sweet moral story that comes along which says it may be better not to have sex until I'm married." Perhaps you find that endearing, yet there are others who can learn from this and take something away with them from it, at least give them the chance instead subjecting them to your immature rants about how God's laws for love and life, and even good old common sense has somehow conspire against you, and forced you into hating life unless you live it your way.

Really...

Digit

 

[JWNEWMAN]

Abstinence is advisable till marriage. Probably, most young people will have sex before marriage. I suppose some will not but, probably most will experiment. Do I think it's right, no. But it is the reality. Kids should be aware of the risks of sex and all the consequences of sex, emotional, physical, and psychological. Kids should also be aware of condoms. They are going to choose, many will choose to have pre-marital sex. Since we know that, they should be aware of condoms.

 

[Digit]

Abstinence is advisable till marriage. Probably, most young people will have sex before marriage. I suppose some will not but, probably most will experiment. Do I think it's right, no. But it is the reality. Kids should be aware of the risks of sex and all the consequences of sex, emotional, physical, and psychological. Kids should also be aware of condoms. They are going to choose, many will choose to have pre-marital sex. Since we know that, they should be aware of condoms.

Yup, I agree with that.

Cheers,
Digit

 

[MoNiCa4316]

I could not figure out where to put this so if it needs moved be my guest.
I received this in an email. While I am not sure if this is actual it certainly makes a point.
Abstinence
(By Robert Layton)
I WAS HOLDING A NOTICE FROM my 13-year-old son's
school announcing a meeting to preview the new course
in sexuality. Parents could examine the curriculum and
take part in an actual lesson presented exactly as it
would be given to the students.
When I arrived at the school, I was surprised to
discover only about a dozen parents there. As we
waited for the presentation, I thumbed through page
after page of instructions in the prevention of
pregnancy or disease. I found abstinence mentioned
only in passing. When the teacher arrived with the
school nurse, she asked if there were any questions. I
asked why abstinence did not play a noticeable part in
the material.
What happened next was shocking. There was a great
deal of laughter, and someone suggested that if I
thought abstinence had any merit, I should go back to
burying my head in the sand. The teacher and the nurse
said nothing as I drowned in a sea of embarrassment.
My mind had gone blank, and I could think of nothing
to say. The teacher explained to me that the job of
the school was to teach "facts, " and the home was
responsible for moral training. I sat in silence for
the next 20 minutes as the course was explained. The
other parents seemed to give their unqualified support
to the materials.
"Donuts, at the back, " announced the teacher during
the break. "I'd like you to put on the name tags we
have prepared-they're right by the donuts . . . and
mingle with the other parents. "Everyone moved to the
back of the room. As I watched them affixing their
name tags and shaking hands, I sat deep in thought. I
was ashamed that I had not been able to convince them
to include a serious discussion of abstinence in the
materials. I uttered a silent prayer for guidance. My
thoughts were interrupted by the teacher's hand on my
shoulder. "Won't you join the others, Mr. Layton?" The
nurse smiled sweetly at me. "The donuts are good."
"Thank you, no, " I replied. "Well, then, how about a
name tag? I'm sure the others would like to meet you."
"Somehow I doubt that, " I replied. "Won't you please
join them?" she coaxed. Then I heard a still, small
voice whisper, "Don't go." The instruction was
unmistakable. "Don't go!" "I'll just wait here, " I
said.
When the class was called back to order, the teacher
looked around the long table and thanked everyone for
putting on name tags. She ignored me. Then she said,
"Now we're going to give you the same lesson we'll be
giving your children. Everyone please peel off your
name tags." I watched in silence as the tags came off.
"Now, then, on the back of one of the tags, I drew a
tiny flower. Who has it, please?" The gentleman across
from me held it up. "Here it is!" "All right, " she
said. "The flower represents disease. Do you recall
with whom you shook hands?" He pointed to a couple of
people. "Very good, " she replied. "The handshake in
this case represents intimacy. So the two people you
had contact with now have the disease." There was
laughter and joking among the parents. The teacher
continued, "And whom did the two of you shake hands
with?" The point was well taken, and she explained how
this lesson would show students how quickly disease is
spread. "Since we all shook hands, we all have the
disease."
It was then that I heard the still, small voice again.
"Speak now," it said, "but be humble." I noted wryly
the latter admonition, then rose from my chair. I
apologized for any upset I might have caused earlier,
congratulated the teacher on an excellent lesson that
would impress the youth, and concluded by saying I had
only one small point I wished to make. "Not all of us
were infected, " I said. "One of us . . . abstained."

thanks for sharing that! I like it.
I think it's important to teach teens about condoms, etc, for safety. But abstinence should be encouraged too, maybe then people wouldn't make fun of it but take the point seriously. I remember in school, someone was giving out condoms, and most people took one...but those who did not were sort of laughed at. That's sad, I think.

 

[TheFathersDaughter]

I applaud the teacher and staff for the curriculum. That women really wasn't doing much by that action. She wasn't speaking out since that was kind of the point of the assignment.

 

[TheFathersDaughter]

Dannager is actually stating reality. I just took a sex ed class. They didn't say anything about "well you'll do it anyway". All my teacher talked about was abstinence. It's a bunch of propaganda to say that schools are encouraging sex. As you can see, the teachers here were trying to discourage it. But all you can see is the mother who is probably very proud of herself for doing nothing but emphasizing the point. Parents don't act like that either. I have Christian friends with atheist parents who would still ground them for life if they were told their child was having sex.

Kids are encouraged to have sex by their own urges and the media. Don't try to pin it on anyone else.

 

[MoNiCa4316]

If you look at things from a scientific perspective, our urges and desires are good. Those creatures in nature which "win" at life are the ones that survive.

wow I disagree with that completely. If you look at things from a Biblical perspective, our natural urges and desires are sinful because we are fallen creatures. We must live by the Spirit, not by the flesh. The world's definition of "winning" in life is called death in Christianity. I'm not saying that sex is evil and wrong, lol. Of course not. But we have lots and lots of desires (including corrupted sexual desires) that are in fact not God's will for us, and saying that they're good if they help us survive, seems wrong.
"For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me will find it." We do not live for mere survival. There goes the scientific perspective...

lol sorry I couldn't resist, I had to say that.

God bless.

monica

 

[MoNiCa4316]

Dannager is actually stating reality. I just took a sex ed class. They didn't say anything about "well you'll do it anyway". All my teacher talked about was abstinence. It's a bunch of propaganda to say that schools are encouraging sex. As you can see, the teachers here were trying to discourage it. But all you can see is the mother who is probably very proud of herself for doing nothing but emphasizing the point. Parents don't act like that either. I have Christian friends with atheist parents who would still ground them for life if they were told their child was having sex.

Kids are encouraged to have sex by their own urges and the media. Don't try to pin it on anyone else.

That's good that you had a school like that there are all kinds of teachers out there though. Yes, kids are indeed encouraged to have sex by "their own urges and the media", it's just that some teachers go along with that. Thankfully, some don't.

 

[TheFathersDaughter]

What?

The story is bull####.

If you wore a glove, you wouldn't be infected. Or are you not capable of using one?

You're the one that doesn't want to accept reality. You want to make everything natural bad, you're saying "don't enjoy life". God didn't give me senses and a world like this, so I could spend all my days hating it.

Gloves don't set it in stone. You're being very rash Irrational. He isn't giving it a good light but you're making it sound like you want people to go out and have sex with everything because it feels good. The do what feels good attitude doesn't work because what feels good isn't always the best choice. A druggie will tell you meth feels good, but you don't condone that I hope.

 

[TheFathersDaughter]

That's good that you had a school like that there are all kinds of teachers out there though. Yes, kids are indeed encouraged to have sex by "their own urges and the media", it's just that some teachers go along with that. Thankfully, some don't.

Most don't. I've only seen teachers do that on their own time and I've been to quite a few schools. The only teacher who's ever encouraged it was actually a biology teacher. But he also told us he didn't care if we ditched class or did drugs. I think he was fired.

 

[MoNiCa4316]

Most don't. I've only seen teachers do that on their own time and I've been to quite a few schools. The only teacher who's ever encouraged it was actually a biology teacher. But he also told us he didn't care if we ditched class or did drugs. I think he was fired.

When I went to high school, we had a 'sex ed' day where someone came in and started teaching the kids about having oral and anal sex. and giving tips. I don't think that's really acceptable, because it goes beyond the whole 'health and safety' thing (which is good).

 

[Trashionista]

What?

The story is bull####.

If you wore a glove, you wouldn't be infected. Or are you not capable of using one?

If the glove is a metaphor for a condom or diaphragm...

Condoms don't protect against all STIs. Herpes being one of them.

Anyways, on to the topic, I'm all for abstinence if its something you really want to do. I personally don't care what other people do in the bedroom - since its none of my business.

But, pro-abstinence teaching shouldn't be the only one covered in class. Bring in a Planned Parenthood rep, a nurse, a pro-abstinence ministry/church official if its a seperate school, but don't do all abstinence.

 

[Trashionista]

Kids are encouraged to have sex by their own urges and the media. Don't try to pin it on anyone else.

I honestly don't believe it all comes down to media & urges.

For instance, girls with dysfunctional or non-existent relationships with their fathers/male parental figures, are more like than those that do have decent relationships with their dads to engage in promiscuity.

There are too many other factors at work than simple hormones & an over-sexed media.

Really, the sexual revolution occured in the 60s & 70s, when television, movies & music were relatively more tame, more Leave it to Beaver than today. If it were all due to media, the sexual freedom of the 60s/70s would be occuring today, due to the [apparent] saturation of sex in the media.

 

[TheFathersDaughter]

I honestly don't believe it all comes down to media & urges.

For instance, girls with dysfunctional or non-existent relationships with their fathers/male parental figures, are more like than those that do have decent relationships with their dads to engage in promiscuity.

There are too many other factors at work than simple hormones & an over-sexed media.

Really, the sexual revolution occured in the 60s & 70s, when television, movies & music were relatively more tame, more Leave it to Beaver than today. If it were all due to media, the sexual freedom of the 60s/70s would be occuring today, due to the [apparent] saturation of sex in the media.

I have no relationship with my father and I have no problem with promiscuity. I think that is nonsense though if it were true it would be because they're more easily influenced by peers influenced by media because they have no better influence.