Absolutely Free or Not?

[JustinWindsor]

Where have I ever said one can earn or merit their salvation? More false accusations.

Look at it this way. In John 9 Jesus heals a blind man. Jesus put clay in the blind man's eyes, then tells him to go wash in the pool of Siloam, which the man did and he received his sight.

When Jesus sent the man to wash his eyes and the man went, that was a work the man did. Did he merit/earn his own healing by going and washing? Did he heal himself by going and washing? Was the something special about the water that healed his eyes? NO on all counts. He simply was obedient to the conditions Jesus put on his recieving his sight back. One is obedient in being water baptized by meeting the conditions Jesus put on salvation. One is not earning/meriting his salvation, no one is saving themselves apart from what Christ has commanded, and there is nothing special about the water. IT IS THE ACT OF OBEDIENCE, that is why the blind man gained his sight when his washed his eyes and that is why God removes sins when one is water baptized. Had the blind man refused to wash his eyes, he would have remained blind, just like those that deny water baptism for remission of sins, they remain "blind".

Jesus gives sight to the blind. He brings light into the darkness. He makes alive, those who were formerly dead in trespasses and sins.

Jesus and the Apostles performed many signs and wonders which heraled the arrival of the good news. He gives the sight. He enables the blind to see. We are not our own enabler.

Where you see the act of obedience as necessary to receive the 'healing', I see the act of obedience a result of the healing.

 

[mlqurgw]

Because a few was obedient and most were not.



Since those under the OT lived and died under the OT before Jesus shed His blood, their obedience to the OT played a part in their salvation when Christ did shed His blood. Were the evil, disobedient of the OT, were their sins redeemed? Were the evil saved? I understand the OT gave prophecies of Christ, but it was thier obedience that was what was important.

They were obedient because they saw, by God giving them eyes to see, what those who perished in unbelief didn't. Heb. 11 tells us of poeple of faith not obedience. All those who were saved in the OT were disobedeint in some way. David sinned with Bathsheba, Job looked to his own righteousness, Abraham would have given Sarah to another man to save his own life, etc. The Scriptures always show even the best of men in their true light, disobedient sinners saved by grace.

 

[JustinWindsor]

They were obedient because they saw, by God giving them eyes to see, what those who perished in unbelief didn't. Heb. 11 tells us of poeple of faith not obedience. All those who were saved in the OT were disobedeint in some way. David sinned with Bathsheba, Job looked to his own righteousness, Abraham would have given Sarah to another man to save his own life, etc. The Scriptures always show even the best of men in their true light, disobedient sinners saved by grace.

Obedience of faith. Not faith of obedience.

 

[jmacvols]

Jesus gives sight to the blind. He brings light into the darkness. He makes alive, those who were formerly dead in trespasses and sins.

Jesus and the Apostles performed many signs and wonders which heraled the arrival of the good news. He gives the sight. He enables the blind to see. We are not our own enabler.

Where you see the act of obedience as necessary to receive the 'healing', I see the act of obedience a result of the healing.

The blind man was obedient first by going and washing his eyes, then he received his sight. Jesus in Mk 16:16 put belief and baptism first, then those followed by salvation.

 

[jmacvols]

They were obedient because they saw, by God giving them eyes to see, what those who perished in unbelief didn't. Heb. 11 tells us of poeple of faith not obedience. All those who were saved in the OT were disobedeint in some way. David sinned with Bathsheba, Job looked to his own righteousness, Abraham would have given Sarah to another man to save his own life, etc. The Scriptures always show even the best of men in their true light, disobedient sinners saved by grace.

mlqurgw says "Heb 11 tells us of poeple of faith not obedience." Are you kidding me? Heb 11:7 "By faith Noah...moved with fear, prepared an ark..." Heb 11:8 "By faith Abraham...obeyed; he went out..." Heb 11:33 "...wrought righteousness..." No one is perfectly sinless, but that does not mean they are not capable of obeying.

 

[JustinWindsor]

The blind man was obedient first by going and washing his eyes, then he received his sight. Jesus in Mk 16:16 put belief and baptism first, then those followed by salvation.

You want to argue based on the chronology of the sentence? How about the chronology of when the elect were chosen. At the foundations of the world. The same expression used by God to describe when He chose His Christ and His Apostles. It was, incidentally, the same time he formed a plan to redeem His children.

You would not believe in the Christ of Scripture if you were not first elected.
You would not believe in the Christ of Scripture if you were not first born again form above.
You would not believe in the Christ of Scripture if you were not first made alive in Christ by the Holy Spirit.
You would not believe in the Christ of Scripture if you had not first heard God's Word on the matter.
It is only after these things, chronologically, have taken place that you are able to believe and be obedient.

It is an obedience of faith, not a faith of obedience.

Yes...He made the Blind to see, and the lame to walk.
He caused you to see Him, and caused you to walk in obedience of faith.
When He performed these miracles it was not to bring them a better quality of physical life. It was to effect His saving plan of salvation to the whole world. Your interpretation misses the whole point. It, in my estimation, may lead to a cultic interpretation, philosophy, and even denomination.

 

[mlqurgw]

mlqurgw says "Heb 11 tells us of poeple of faith not obedience." Are you kidding me? Heb 11:7 "By faith Noah...moved with fear, prepared an ark..." Heb 11:8 "By faith Abraham...obeyed; he went out..." Heb 11:33 "...wrought righteousness..." No one is perfectly sinless, but that does not mean they are not capable of obeying.

The chapter is about faith not obedience. Those who have faith are obedient. Not perfectly of course. Obedience is a fruit of faith not a cause of it.

 

[jmacvols]

The chapter is about faith not obedience. Those who have faith are obedient. Not perfectly of course. Obedience is a fruit of faith not a cause of it.

Heb 11 is about obedient faith, whereas we already know that faith without works (obedience) is dead. Faith is a work, a form of obedience. God rewards those that diligently seek Him, v6, so man has the ability and responsibilty to seek after God. Obedience comes first, then salvation. God did not save Noah from the flood first and then after Noah was 'saved' from the flood, he then built the ark.

 

[jmacvols]

You want to argue based on the chronology of the sentence? How about the chronology of when the elect were chosen. At the foundations of the world. The same expression used by God to describe when He chose His Christ and His Apostles. It was, incidentally, the same time he formed a plan to redeem His children.

John, by inspiration recorded the events as they occured, and obedience comes before the healing, just as belief and baptism come before salvation in Mk 16:16. God elected Christians, not any particular individuals. Anyone can be a christian that so chooses to be, which makes the rest of your points below wrong.

You would not believe in the Christ of Scripture if you were not first elected.
You would not believe in the Christ of Scripture if you were not first born again form above.
You would not believe in the Christ of Scripture if you were not first made alive in Christ by the Holy Spirit.
You would not believe in the Christ of Scripture if you had not first heard God's Word on the matter.
It is only after these things, chronologically, have taken place that you are able to believe and be obedient.

It is an obedience of faith, not a faith of obedience.

Obedience to the faith, Rom 1:5, obedience unto righteousness, Rom 6:16, obedience of faith, Rom 16:26---no 'faith only' to be found here. It is of the greatest false idea for anyone to say Paul ever taught 'faith alone'.

Yes...He made the Blind to see, and the lame to walk.
He caused you to see Him, and caused you to walk in obedience of faith.
When He performed these miracles it was not to bring them a better quality of physical life. It was to effect His saving plan of salvation to the whole world. Your interpretation misses the whole point. It, in my estimation, may lead to a cultic interpretation, philosophy, and even denomination.

Jesus did not cause/make/force the blind man to go and wash, he did that of himself. Christ does not casue/make/force anyone to obey His words. I did not miss the point, your theology cannot get aound the fact that obedience came first. Wish to discuss Naaman also? Was he cleansed before or after he obediently went and dipped in the Jordan river?

 

[JustinWindsor]

Heb 11 is about obedient faith, whereas we already know that faith without works (obedience) is dead. Faith is a work, a form of obedience. God rewards those that diligently seek Him, v6, so man has the ability and responsibilty to seek after God. Obedience comes first, then salvation. God did not save Noah from the flood first and then after Noah was 'saved' from the flood, he then built the ark.

Faith is a gift of grace. When we exercise our faith in the form of obedience or trust, that is a work out of our faith.

Obedience, in other words, is a work of faith.
Trusting God, is a work of faith.
Obedience springs from your faith.

Consider Romans 12:3
For through the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think more highly of himself than he ought to think; but to think so as to have sound judgment, as God has allotted to each a measure of faith.

And with the allotment of faith you have been given, you are able to accomplish all that God asks of you. You can stand firm in your faith. You can grow in knowledge in faith. You can do this with whatever faith you have been apportioned.

Matt 17:20
And He said to them, "Because of the littleness of your faith; for truly I say to you, if you have faith the size of a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move; and nothing will be impossible to you.

It would be more accurate to think of faith itself as a gift of grace, and your works as coming out of that gift, rather than to think of faith as a work of yours in itself. If faith is a work, it is a work of God.

Consider also Ephesian 6. Paul says to stand firm in the armour of God. That is a stance the Roman army would take. Standing their ground with the weapons they had been equipped with. Paul's point is, you have been equipped with spiritual weapons. One of those weapons is faith. The reason you can stand firm is, not because you are standing in your own power, but in God's. They are His weapons, He has equipped you.

Stand firm in your faith, whatever faith you have been apportioned. That is all you need to accomplish all that God has called and purposed you to do.

 

[Augustine_Was_Calvinist]

The blind man was obedient first by going and washing his eyes, then he received his sight. Jesus in Mk 16:16 put belief and baptism first, then those followed by salvation.

Wrong, the blindman first had faith in Christ.

It was faith that the One who put mud on his eyes could heal him that was the cause of his obdience.

 

[allisonP]

This is something I have been pondering myself.
I believe that Jesus freely gives salvation to those who ask. I believe he asks those who are saved to freely give of themselves(sacrifice).
Just because we are asked to do things after we are given salvation doesnt take away from the gift that was given. Nor does it negate the fact that we have service to do as those who have been given such a priceless gift.
Peter told Cornelious about Jesus and the holy spirit came upon him(freely because he believed(is that an action? believing I mean?) and then Peter baptized him in water.
Didn't Cornelious have to activly beileve and submit to being baptized?
What if he had told Peter, an apostle who just told him of Jesus , that he didn't want to get baptized? Would he have still been saved?

 

[jmacvols]

This is something I have been pondering myself.
I believe that Jesus freely gives salvation to those who ask. I believe he asks those who are saved to freely give of themselves(sacrifice).

One does have to 'ask', salvation is not randomly given out for no particular or unknown reason.

Just because we are asked to do things after we are given salvation doesnt take away from the gift that was given. Nor does it negate the fact that we have service to do as those who have been given such a priceless gift.

There are things Jesus ask of us BEFORE salvation is given, for example, Jesus put belief and baptism BEFORE salvation in Mk 16:16.

Peter told Cornelious about Jesus and the holy spirit came upon him(freely because he believed(is that an action? believing I mean?) and then Peter baptized him in water.

Cornelius being baptized with the Holy Spirit was how God showed the Jews that the Gentiles also had been granted repentance unto life. It wasn't until Cornelius was water baptized, he was put in a saved position.

Didn't Cornelious have to activly beileve and submit to being baptized?

Yes, he was commanded by God thru Peter to do so.

What if he had told Peter, an apostle who just told him of Jesus , that he didn't want to get baptized? Would he have still been saved?

No, disobedience is not rewarded with salvation.

 

[CaiperLane]

Is eternal life absolutely free or not?

Eternal life (spending eternity with God) is a GIFT.

Rom 6:23"For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

Eph 2:8-9"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast."

God offers this GIFT of eternal life to all people.

Suppose someone bought you a very expensive gift. When they gave it to you, you offered to pay for it. If you did that it would not be a gift. Suppose then you offered to wash their car to earn it. That would be earning it. Next, suppose they left this gift on the table for you but you never opened it. The gift would never really become yours, even though someone may have paid a lot of money for it. Eternal life is like this. It cannot be bought or earned. It is free but the GIFT must be received.

Where there is a gift and a giver there has to be a RECIPIENT or receiver of that gift. We the human race, are the RECIPIENTS of this gift of eternal life. There is a reason why we need that gift. It is because of our sin.

Rom 5:12"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:"

Rom 3:23"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;"

Yes, it is true, we have all sinned. This is why we need this gift of eternal life. There is one thing that keeps us out of God's presence and that is our sin. This last verse says we "come short of the glory of God". Suppose we stood on the brink of the Grand Canyon and discussed jumping across it. Then we each made an attempt to jump from one side to the other. I might jump ten feet, whereas you jump fifteen. However, we both come short of getting across. This illustrates how our sin causes us to fall short of God's perfect holiness and keeps us out of His presence for all eternity.

Mat 5:48"Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."

Yes, we cannot attain to God's perfect holiness, so we need God's gift of eternal life. Since I have a sin problem, there is a debt against my record before God, that has to be paid.

And Jesus paid your debt on the cross. The penalty of YOUR sin was taken by Christ. His gift of eternal life is just that. A gift.

 

[jmacvols]

Eternal life (spending eternity with God) is a GIFT.

Rom 6:23"For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

Eph 2:8-9"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast."

God offers this GIFT of eternal life to all people.

Suppose someone bought you a very expensive gift. When they gave it to you, you offered to pay for it. If you did that it would not be a gift. Suppose then you offered to wash their car to earn it. That would be earning it. Next, suppose they left this gift on the table for you but you never opened it. The gift would never really become yours, even though someone may have paid a lot of money for it. Eternal life is like this. It cannot be bought or earned. It is free but the GIFT must be received.

Where there is a gift and a giver there has to be a RECIPIENT or receiver of that gift. We the human race, are the RECIPIENTS of this gift of eternal life. There is a reason why we need that gift. It is because of our sin.

Rom 5:12"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:"

Rom 3:23"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;"

Yes, it is true, we have all sinned. This is why we need this gift of eternal life. There is one thing that keeps us out of God's presence and that is our sin. This last verse says we "come short of the glory of God". Suppose we stood on the brink of the Grand Canyon and discussed jumping across it. Then we each made an attempt to jump from one side to the other. I might jump ten feet, whereas you jump fifteen. However, we both come short of getting across. This illustrates how our sin causes us to fall short of God's perfect holiness and keeps us out of His presence for all eternity.

Mat 5:48"Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."

Yes, we cannot attain to God's perfect holiness, so we need God's gift of eternal life. Since I have a sin problem, there is a debt against my record before God, that has to be paid.

And Jesus paid your debt on the cross. The penalty of YOUR sin was taken by Christ. His gift of eternal life is just that. A gift.

How about Jn 6:27, Jesus said to labor for the meat that endures to everlasting life that the Son of man shall GIVE unto you. Notice, it is GIVEN (free), but one has to labor for it. What if I was to give you a brand new car, but you have to come to my office to pick up the keys and title. Your coming to my office is a labor you perform, but you still get the car for free, I charged you nothing. You got the car for free, but had to meet the conditions for getting it free, ie picking up the keys and title. The car was free to you before you came to my office and it was still free after you left my office with it. You had to make the choice to come to my office and get it, I did not make/force you to come to me and get it.

 

[JustinWindsor]

How about Jn 6:27, Jesus said to labor for the meat that endures to everlasting life that the Son of man shall GIVE unto you. Notice, it is GIVEN (free), but one has to labor for it. What if I was to give you a brand new car, but you have to come to my office to pick up the keys and title. Your coming to my office is a labor you perform, but you still get the car for free, I charged you nothing. You got the car for free, but had to meet the conditions for getting it free, ie picking up the keys and title. The car was free to you before you came to my office and it was still free after you left my office with it. You had to make the choice to come to my office and get it, I did not make/force you to come to me and get it.

This analogy is man's reasoning and does not capture the salvation of Scripture.

John 6:27
"Do not work for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal."

Jesus is teaching about motivation of the heart. He is sanctifying any of His listeners who are born again. You should be motivated by the eternal hope you have in Christ. This is what the Apostles taught, which helps us understand the words of Christ in the Gospel accounts. The Apostles have written clearly about salvation without any merit of our own. They say salvation is entirely by grace. Grace is unmerited favour. Teaching in the gospels and epistles to encourage obedient behaviour is not to show you to earn your salvation, or to help you 'keep' your salvation. It is to generate obedience in those who are saved. It is to sanctify the hearts and lives of the true Children of God.

If you believe you have to earn or merit your salvation that is not the salvation of Apostolic doctrine. It isn't salvation at all.

Salvation is of God. Not by the will of man, or by man's efforts, but by God.

 

[jmacvols]

This analogy is man's reasoning and does not capture the salvation of Scripture.

John 6:27
"Do not work for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal."

Jesus is teaching about motivation of the heart. He is sanctifying any of His listeners who are born again. You should be motivated by the eternal hope you have in Christ. This is what the Apostles taught, which helps us understand the words of Christ in the Gospel accounts. The Apostles have written clearly about salvation without any merit of our own. They say salvation is entirely by grace. Grace is unmerited favour. Teaching in the gospels and epistles to encourage obedient behaviour is not to show you to earn your salvation, or to help you 'keep' your salvation. It is to generate obedience in those who are saved. It is to sanctify the hearts and lives of the true Children of God.

Your 'reasoning' of Jn 6:27 does not remotely capture the meaning of the verse. Christ did not mention anything about the heart, He said to LABOUR, to work for the meat that endures to everlasting life. The Son of man will not give eternal life unless one labours for it. This verse does not even remotely suggest that the Son will give eternal life to those that have "belief only" or "do nothing". Nowhere do the apostles say salvation is by "grace alone"; Heb 5:9.

If you believe you have to earn or merit your salvation that is not the salvation of Apostolic doctrine. It isn't salvation at all.

Salvation is of God. Not by the will of man, or by man's efforts, but by God.

I have never said salvation is earned/merited. See my example of the car. It was by my good grace I gave a car away for free. It cost one nothing before or after they get it. They simply meet the conditions on receiving the car for free. Namaan was not cleansed until after he dipped himself.

Heb 5:9 Christ is the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey Him. Rom 6:16 you are the servant to whom you obey, either obey sin unto death or obedience unto righteousness. 1 Pet 4:17 what shall be the end of them that obey not the gospel of God? 2 Thes 1:8 taking vengeance upon them that obey not the gospel or our Lord. Rom 2:8 them that are contentious, who obey not the truth.

 

[JustinWindsor]

Your 'reasoning' of Jn 6:27 does not remotely capture the meaning of the verse. Christ did not mention anything about the heart, He said to LABOUR, to work for the meat that endures to everlasting life. The Son of man will not give eternal life unless one labours for it. This verse does not even remotely suggest that the Son will give eternal life to those that have "belief only" or "do nothing". Nowhere do the apostles say salvation is by "grace alone"; Heb 5:9.



I have never said salvation is earned/merited. See my example of the car. It was by my good grace I gave a car away for free. It cost one nothing before or after they get it. They simply meet the conditions on receiving the car for free. Namaan was not cleansed until after he dipped himself.

Heb 5:9 Christ is the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey Him. Rom 6:16 you are the servant to whom you obey, either obey sin unto death or obedience unto righteousness. 1 Pet 4:17 what shall be the end of them that obey not the gospel of God? 2 Thes 1:8 taking vengeance upon them that obey not the gospel or our Lord. Rom 2:8 them that are contentious, who obey not the truth.

Your analogy of 'the car' is in error. When you are born again from above it is because God gave you the free gift of faith. Not only that...the Person of the Holy Spirit takes up residence in your heart to give you spiritual eyes to see the things of God (John 3). Your rich uncle cannot put your car in your heart the way God puts His faith in you. Your rich uncle cannot put your car in your heart the way the gift of faith is bestowed. You are applying human reasoning which is coming up opposite of the clear teaching of the Apostles. Your arguments are dealt with by Paul clearly in Romans 9. You simply refuse to hear the correction.

Salvation is a free gift.
Grace is 'unmerited favour'.
If you are born again, it is because God the Father chose you in eternity past, God the Son Redeemed you, and God the Holy Spirit sealed you. This is abundantly clear in a simple reading of Ephesians 1. In fact, when the Apostle makes each of these statements he goes to the trouble to say these three things are accomplished according to His will, purpose, and intention.

Here's the thing. Once you add man's will, or man's merit, it is no longer Biblical grace. The FREE GIFT of faith begets obedience and sanctification. Obedience does not beget the FREE GIFT of faith. That would be opposite to the Apostle's clear teaching.

You don't have to prove to God that you are His child.
You don't have to prove to you that you are His child.
If you love Him (1 John 4) it is because He has given you His love. You love Him out of His love, the love He gave you. You love your brothers and sisters in Christ, and your neighbours, out of His love, the love He gave you, the love the Holy Spirit brought to your heart. None of this is your own. Not your will, not your love, not your merit.

That is what GRACE means.
Praise be to God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.

 

[JustinWindsor]

1. Chosen by the Father

3Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. 4For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will—

2. Redeemed By The Son

6to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One [Christ] he loves. 7In him [Christ] we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God's grace 8that he lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding. 9And he made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, 10to be put into effect when the times will have reached their fulfillment—to bring all things in heaven and on earth together under one
head, even Christ.

3. Sealed by The Holy Spirit

11In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, 12in order that we, who were the first to hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory. 13And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession—to the praise of his glory.

Folks, predestined means predestined according to His plan and will.
Chosen means chosen according to His plan and will.
It means God's choice and God working His will. Salvation is not of the man who wills or works, but of God. This is key.

God the Father chose you in eternity past. Christ the Son is your redeemer. When you heard the word of truth you believed. If you had not been given eyes to see, and ears to hear, you would not have believed. Your salvation is entirely of God. Wesley and Arminius were both wrong on this point. Augustine, Spurgeon, Whitefield, Edwards, and Sproul were/are correct.

God chooses the man, the man is unable to choose God. The moment you say, this is so EXCEPT that I must choose to believe - I must exercise my will for God or God will reject me - I must choose to accept the car keys, you have ignored the Apostles' clear teaching on the matter.

You are saved for the good works.
You are saved so you can be obedient.
Obedience will never merit Salvation.
Salvation begets obedience.

 

[jmacvols]

Your analogy of 'the car' is in error.

No, its like Namaan and the blind man. Their healing was free, they simply had to meet the conditions in order to be healed. They did not earn/merit their healing nor did they heal themselves, their healing came about by selfless obedience to meet the conditions for their healing.

When you are born again from above it is because God gave you the free gift of faith. Not only that...the Person of the Holy Spirit takes up residence in your heart to give you spiritual eyes to see the things of God (John 3). Your rich uncle cannot put your car in your heart the way God puts His faith in you. Your rich uncle cannot put your car in your heart the way the gift of faith is bestowed. You are applying human reasoning which is coming up opposite of the clear teaching of the Apostles. Your arguments are dealt with by Paul clearly in Romans 9. You simply refuse to hear the correction.

Rom 10:14-17 faith comes by hearing, it is not forced on anyone by God. Faith is a form of obedience, a work that man does to meet a condition placed upon salvation. Acts 5:32, the Holy Ghost is only in those that obey. My example had nothing about putting a "car in your heart", it was about meeting conditons plcaed upon receiving it, just like meeting conditons placed upon salvation. Rom 9 clearly refutes Calvinism clearly, soundly and completely.

Salvation is a free gift.
Grace is 'unmerited favour'.
If you are born again, it is because God the Father chose you in eternity past, God the Son Redeemed you, and God the Holy Spirit sealed you. This is abundantly clear in a simple reading of Ephesians 1. In fact, when the Apostle makes each of these statements he goes to the trouble to say these three things are accomplished according to His will, purpose, and intention.

Salvation is free, but Jesus said one must labour to meet the conditions placed upon it, Jn 6:27. Again, God predestinated a class of people-Christians, not any particular individuals. Eph 1:4 -"chosen us in Him". The 'us' refers to Christians of whom were Paul and those Ephesians he was writing to and they were in Him. Thus, those presestinated are those in Him, in which the only way to be in Him is by baptism (a form of obedience) Gal 3:27. Eph 1:13, before being sealed, one must first hear and believe, both forms of obedience to meet the conditions placed on salvation. Acts 19:18 Those at Ephesus believed, confessed and showed their deeds. There was no 'faith only' among the Christians at Ephesus.

Here's the thing. Once you add man's will, or man's merit, it is no longer Biblical grace. The FREE GIFT of faith begets obedience and sanctification. Obedience does not beget the FREE GIFT of faith. That would be opposite to the Apostle's clear teaching.

I have never said salvation was merited. I have said that grace and salvation are in Christ, 2 Tim 2:1,10, and if one wishes to have grace and salvation, they then have to be in Christ, and baptism is the way into Christ, Gal 3:26,27.

You don't have to prove to God that you are His child.
You don't have to prove to you that you are His child.
If you love Him (1 John 4) it is because He has given you His love. You love Him out of His love, the love He gave you. You love your brothers and sisters in Christ, and your neighbours, out of His love, the love He gave you, the love the Holy Spirit brought to your heart. None of this is your own. Not your will, not your love, not your merit.

One has to be obedeint to be a child of God, He does not pick His children randomly or for a unknown reason.