Absolutely Free or Not?

Free Gracer · Oct 12, 2005

Robbie, BRO!

Nice to see ya here! Blessings and grace to you, dear brother!

Antonio

freegracertwo · Oct 12, 2005

Outrider,

I see you can't say that justification, which means being declared righteous, is by means of faith ALONE, no works in question, but simply by God's totally unmerited favor, or in other words, GRACE.

you write:

The faith is not alone. It is a creation of God in the heart of his child through the ministration of the Word by the Holy Spirit. There's actually a pretty big crowd gathered around faith. All divine persons of the the Trinity.

To which most Catholics would give a hearty Amen.

Then you confuse two things:

No. They will do so progressively. But more imporatant is that since the righteousness of Christ is imputed to them, his obedience and his good works will make their pilgrimage of faith sufficient in the end. As we receive him so we walk in him. We receive him by grace through faith, so we walk by grace through faith.

Big AMEN to the imputation of the righteousness of Christ. But you confuse imputation with sanctification. A good Catholic apologist like Akin would agree with what you have written, just by taking it on face value. Now if you are Catholic that is fine, because you are being true to your theology, but if you are a Protestant, well, that might be a different story. Not trying to be offensive to you in any way, shape, or form.

Fgreegracertwo

freegracertwo · Oct 12, 2005

Free Gracer said:
Robbie, BRO!

Nice to see ya here! Blessings and grace to you, dear brother!

Antonio

BRO Antonio!

All blessings and grace to you my dear brother and friend!

Robbie

Free Gracer · Oct 12, 2005

For those of you who are interested: here are some links for you!

A free grace message board:

http://www.faithalone.org/chat.html

Short, concise articles on problem scriptural passages:

http://www.faithalone.org/news/passage.html

Longer, more scholorly journal articles on a variety of theological topics:

http://www.faithalone.org/journal/index.html

Antonio

Joykins · Oct 12, 2005

Absolutely free and absolutely costly.

The more you put in the more you get out.

jmacvols · Oct 12, 2005

Outrider said:
Always handy to actually quote the verse to see what it really says:
John 4:10 (ESV)
Jesus answered her, "If you knew the gift of God, and who it is that is saying to you, 'Give me a drink,' you would have asked him, and he would have given you living water."

Jesus say she would ask if she knew the gift of God and who was before her. Looks like your verse puts God first and actuator of savation. Thanks.

No, the verse still shows she was to ask first, then receive.

Outrider · Oct 13, 2005

freegracertwo said:
Outrider,

I see you can't say that justification, which means being declared righteous, is by means of faith ALONE, no works in question, but simply by God's totally unmerited favor, or in other words, GRACE.

Sorry I confused you, but you might have paid attention to whom was accompanying grace, i.e. the Trinity. In this sense, faith is not alone. However, from the perspective of human experience, I believe in sola fide whole-heartedly. I don't think any Protestant of worth would disagree with my view that faith is not alone in that its creator and sustainer is God. But in the sense that faith is accompanied by any works of merit, I don't think I'm going to get the Pope very excited.

Then you confuse two things:

My quote:

No. They will do so progressively. But more imporatant is that since the righteousness of Christ is imputed to them, his obedience and his good works will make their pilgrimage of faith sufficient in the end. As we receive him so we walk in him. We receive him by grace through faith, so we walk by grace through faith.
I think the only thing I was confused about was how to spell "important". If I take it that justification is punctiliar, then I would have to say that the imputation of righteousness cancelled all my sin at one point, but that I've been building up sin ever since. But the imputation is in the perfect tense, having been declared, that it continues to be distilled over the life of the believer. There is no confusion between justification and sanctification. Justification effects sanctification, not like a switch, but like the electricity behind the switch, so to speak. It started to flow at a point in time and continues to do so. This is why Paul can say, on the one hand, "For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin." (Romans 3:20) and on the other hand,
"For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified." (Romans 2:13) No unregenerate person will be justified by trying to gain merit with God through the law, but those who hear the law (are regenerated) and are righteous (by imputation of Christ's righteousness) will be justified (justification, which begins initially at the declaration of righteousness will be complete when that person's life has run its course, that is, justification is perfect in tense... is not finished with the initial act of declaration, but is proven or vindicated by that persons subsequent life in sanctification). It is assured that the one who is declared righteous will indeed live in righteousness and will be judged unto life after death. Romans 5:9 (ESV) Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God.

Big AMEN to the imputation of the righteousness of Christ. But you confuse imputation with sanctification. A good Catholic apologist like Akin would agree with what you have written, just by taking it on face value.

Only if he doesn't read all of the post. I assume greater intelligence to Catholic apologists than you do.

Now if you are Catholic that is fine, because you are being true to your theology, but if you are a Protestant, well, that might be a different story. Not trying to be offensive to you in any way, shape, or form.

No offense taken. Interesting debate strategy, though. Does it ever actually work on anyone?

Outrider · Oct 13, 2005

jmacvols:
No, the verse still shows she was to ask first, then receive.

I suggest you turn your Bible rightside up when you read it. Mine says,
John 4:10 (ESV)
Jesus answered her, 1. (in first order): "If you knew (embraced, were intimate with, John 8:19; 10:14) the gift of God (eternal life, Romans 6:23), and who it is (connect to antecedent "if you knew who it is, i.e. Jesus the Christ, the Savior and giver of eternal life) that is saying to you, 'Give me a drink,' 2. (second in the order, subsequently) [Then, a hina clause, if/then corallary] you would have asked him, and he would have given you living water."

First, she had to have received eternal life through Jesus by regeneration, then she would ask and would receive. The whole work is clearly of Christ. She is the recipiant of his grace and from that she is able to ask for the living water. I see her as quite passive in this interchange.

freegracertwo · Oct 13, 2005

Outrider said:
Sorry I confused you, but you might have paid attention to whom was accompanying grace, i.e. the Trinity. In this sense, faith is not alone. However, from the perspective of human experience, I believe in sola fide whole-heartedly. I don't think any Protestant of worth would disagree with my view that faith is not alone in that its creator and sustainer is God. But in the sense that faith is accompanied by any works of merit, I don't think I'm going to get the Pope very excited.

My quote:

No. They will do so progressively. But more imporatant is that since the righteousness of Christ is imputed to them, his obedience and his good works will make their pilgrimage of faith sufficient in the end. As we receive him so we walk in him. We receive him by grace through faith, so we walk by grace through faith.
I think the only thing I was confused about was how to spell "important". If I take it that justification is punctiliar, then I would have to say that the imputation of righteousness cancelled all my sin at one point, but that I've been building up sin ever since. But the imputation is in the perfect tense, having been declared, that it continues to be distilled over the life of the believer. There is no confusion between justification and sanctification. Justification effects sanctification, not like a switch, but like the electricity behind the switch, so to speak. It started to flow at a point in time and continues to do so. This is why Paul can say, on the one hand, "For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin." (Romans 3:20) and on the other hand,
"For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified." (Romans 2:13) No unregenerate person will be justified by trying to gain merit with God through the law, but those who hear the law (are regenerated) and are righteous (by imputation of Christ's righteousness) will be justified (justification, which begins initially at the declaration of righteousness will be complete when that person's life has run its course, that is, justification is perfect in tense... is not finished with the initial act of declaration, but is proven or vindicated by that persons subsequent life in sanctification). It is assured that the one who is declared righteous will indeed live in righteousness and will be judged unto life after death. Romans 5:9 (ESV) Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God.

Only if he doesn't read all of the post. I assume greater intelligence to Catholic apologists than you do.

No offense taken. Interesting debate strategy, though. Does it ever actually work on anyone?

Outrider,

you write:

Sorry I confused you, but you might have paid attention to whom was accompanying grace, i.e. the Trinity.

No, I paid attention to what it was you wrote. And yes, I would even say that I agree with your view of faith being accompanied by the Trinity. However, that was not the point of the poll.

Next:

However, from the perspective of human experience, I believe in sola fide whole-heartedly.

Very good. So do I. I also affirm that no works will ever play a part in our justification, just as the scriptures teach.

I think the only thing I was confused about was how to spell "important". If I take it that justification is punctiliar, then I would have to say that the imputation of righteousness cancelled all my sin at one point, but that I've been building up sin ever since. But the imputation is in the perfect tense, having been declared, that it continues to be distilled over the life of the believer. There is no confusion between justification and sanctification. Justification effects sanctification, not like a switch, but like the electricity behind the switch, so to speak. It started to flow at a point in time and continues to do so. This is why Paul can say, on the one hand, "For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin." (Romans 3:20) and on the other hand,
"For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified." (Romans 2:13) No unregenerate person will be justified by trying to gain merit with God through the law, but those who hear the law (are regenerated) and are righteous (by imputation of Christ's righteousness) will be justified (justification, which begins initially at the declaration of righteousness will be complete when that person's life has run its course, that is, justification is perfect in tense... is not finished with the initial act of declaration, but is proven or vindicated by that persons subsequent life in sanctification). It is assured that the one who is declared righteous will indeed live in righteousness and will be judged unto life after death. Romans 5:9 (ESV) Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God.

I see you still have yet to understand the role of imputation and sanctification. Perhaps if you like, we can discuss this more. If not, that will be fine too.

Only if he doesn't read all of the post. I assume greater intelligence to Catholic apologists than you do.

I see that you are not up to date on Catholic Apologetics.

No offense taken. Interesting debate strategy, though. Does it ever actually work on anyone?

Standard Reformed showing of meaness. Nothing new here.

Outrider · Oct 14, 2005

freegracertwo said:
Outrider,

you write:

No, I paid attention to what it was you wrote. And yes, I would even say that I agree with your view of faith being accompanied by the Trinity. However, that was not the point of the poll.

Next:

Very good. So do I. I also affirm that no works will ever play a part in our justification, just as the scriptures teach.

I see you still have yet to understand the role of imputation and sanctification. Perhaps if you like, we can discuss this more. If not, that will be fine too.

I see that you are not up to date on Catholic Apologetics.

Standard Reformed showing of meaness. Nothing new here.

Always nice to have a friendly chat with such a winning personality.

jmacvols · Oct 14, 2005

Outrider said:
I suggest you turn your Bible rightside up when you read it. Mine says,
John 4:10 (ESV)
Jesus answered her, 1. (in first order): "If you knew (embraced, were intimate with, John 8:19; 10:14) the gift of God (eternal life, Romans 6:23), and who it is (connect to antecedent "if you knew who it is, i.e. Jesus the Christ, the Savior and giver of eternal life) that is saying to you, 'Give me a drink,' 2. (second in the order, subsequently) [Then, a hina clause, if/then corallary] you would have asked him, and he would have given you living water."

First, she had to have received eternal life through Jesus by regeneration, then she would ask and would receive. The whole work is clearly of Christ. She is the recipiant of his grace and from that she is able to ask for the living water. I see her as quite passive in this interchange.

Why all the grammatical gymnastics over something so simple? From the verse, it is obvious that the woman knew (eido-know, perceive, understand) not what eternal life is nor did she know who Jesus was and that Jesus had the power to give eternal life. IF the woman had known what salvation was and that Jesus could give it to her, she would have asked and Jesus would have given. If Jesus had not asked the woman for a drink, Jn 4:7, He would not have received it of her, likewise, if the woman did not ask, she would not received. The order of the verse is (1) IF she knew, (2) she would have asked and (3) she would have received.

You say "First, she had to have received eternal life through Jesus by regeneration, then she would ask and receive."
There would be no point in her asking for eternal life if she already had it.

You say "The whole work is clearly of Christ."
I do not see Jesus here forcing the 'water' down the woman's throat. She had to ask, recieve and swallow, all acts on her part. In Jn 4:14 the word "drinketh' is aorist tense--an ACT. This verse also says 'whosoever drinketh'--whosoever is an open invitation to everyone, not just those Jesus chooses to 'regenerate'. Are those lost, lost at the fault of Jesus because He did not, for whatever reason, choose to 'regenerate' them? No, they are lost because they refuse to ask.

You say she was a recipient of His grace.
His grace is available to all, yet all will not be saved. If Jesus is solely responsible for this woman's salvation, then He is solely responsible for those lost. People are not lost because of sin, they are lost because they are not 'chosen'.

mlqurgw · Oct 14, 2005

I would ask why it was that Christ must travel through Samaria? It was not the common way a Jew traveled to Galilee. They would not go into Samaria but traveled around it.

Joh 4:3 He left Judaea, and departed again into Galilee.

Joh 4:4 And he must needs go through Samaria.

The NASB says, " He had to pass through Samaria. "

I would also ask why did Christ not heal all that were at the pool Of Betheseda but only one man? John 5:1-9

BTW, I refuse to vote on the poll because the questions are loaded.

Outrider · Oct 14, 2005

jmacvols said:
Why all the grammatical gymnastics over something so simple? From the verse, it is obvious that the woman knew (eido-know, perceive, understand) not what eternal life is nor did she know who Jesus was and that Jesus had the power to give eternal life. IF the woman had known what salvation was and that Jesus could give it to her, she would have asked and Jesus would have given. If Jesus had not asked the woman for a drink, Jn 4:7, He would not have received it of her, likewise, if the woman did not ask, she would not received. The order of the verse is (1) IF she knew, (2) she would have asked and (3) she would have received.

You say "First, she had to have received eternal life through Jesus by regeneration, then she would ask and receive."
There would be no point in her asking for eternal life if she already had it.

You say "The whole work is clearly of Christ."
I do not see Jesus here forcing the 'water' down the woman's throat. She had to ask, recieve and swallow, all acts on her part. In Jn 4:14 the word "drinketh' is aorist tense--an ACT. This verse also says 'whosoever drinketh'--whosoever is an open invitation to everyone, not just those Jesus chooses to 'regenerate'. Are those lost, lost at the fault of Jesus because He did not, for whatever reason, choose to 'regenerate' them? No, they are lost because they refuse to ask.

You say she was a recipient of His grace.
His grace is available to all, yet all will not be saved. If Jesus is solely responsible for this woman's salvation, then He is solely responsible for those lost. People are not lost because of sin, they are lost because they are not 'chosen'.

Isn't it a blessing that we have other Scripture to correct the direction you would take this passage in? Still, we could park it right here and go back one step further. Jesus came to her intentionally. She did not come to him. Jesus engaged her about her eternal destiny. She had business of her own to concern her. Had Jesus not come to her and engaged her, she would have gone on, business as usual. Only because Jesus came to her and engaged her did she beloieve and receive the gift of life. Once again, Jesus is the sole actuator of redemption. She is its passive recipient. Trying to get works righteousness out of this passage is a discipline in futility.

JustinWindsor · Oct 14, 2005

""Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers, cast out demons. Freely you received, freely give." Matthew 10:8

This next one is a little more weighty, but it explains free grace...as 'free'.

"But the free gift is not like the transgression. For if by the transgression of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many. The gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned; for on the one hand the judgment arose from one transgression resulting in condemnation, but on the other hand the free gift arose from many transgressions resulting in justification." Rom 5:15,16

"For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." Rom 6:23

"He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him over for us all, how will He not also with Him freely give us all things?" Rom 8:32

"Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God," 1 Cor 2:12

"to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved." Eph 1:6

You see folks, the grace we receive when we are born from above (John 3:1-7), is free. We ourselves, didn't do anything to merit it. We can't earn it. Then it wouldn't be free as Christ Himself and His Apostle have described in the above Scripture references.

To further show that it is a free gift, and that we don't do anything, we can see in Peter's explanation that it is also a 'causal' gift. The gift is the cause of our regeneration...the cause of our being born again.

"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead," 1 Peter 1:3

God the Father is the cause.
It is a free gift, unmerited.

Just in case my explanation so far isn't enough, hear the Apostle Paul describe the free gift in his letter to the Church family at Ephesus;

Ephesians 1

1Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God,
To the saints in Ephesus,[a] the faithful[b] in Christ Jesus:

2Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. 3Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. 4For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will 6to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves.

Chosen by the Father in eternity past, according to His own will, before we were able to think and act. There is no merit of our own, it is a FREE gift.

In love 5he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will 6to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. 7In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God's grace 8that he lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding. 9And he[d] made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, 10to be put into effect when the times will have reached their fulfillmentto bring all things in heaven and on earth together under one head, even Christ.

Redeemed by Christ - God the Son. We can't redeem ourselves.
It is free.

11In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, 12in order that we, who were the first to hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory. 13And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possessionto the praise of his glory.

Sealed by the Holy Spirit, again, we can't seal ourselves, we can't earn it, we can't buy it, we can't repay it...it is FREE.

Chosen by the Father (according to His will - vs 5)
Redeemed by the Son (according to His will - vs 9)
Sealed by the Holy Spirit (according to His will - vs 11)

We didn't earn it, we didn't merit it, we didn't WILL it.
The Apostle has clearly stated the Triune God did it all.

Willed it, purposed it, Chose it, redeemed it, and sealed it.
Because He wanted to.
It was a gift in every way.

May God bless you in the renewing of your mind.

jmacvols · Oct 14, 2005

Outrider said:
Isn't it a blessing that we have other Scripture to correct the direction you would take this passage in? Still, we could park it right here and go back one step further. Jesus came to her intentionally.

Maybe Jesus came to her intentionally, maybe not, the context does not say, at best, you're guessing. I did a little research and in Jn 4:3 it says Jesus left Judaea to go again to Galilee. Samaria lay between Jerusalem and Galilee, the most direct route would be to go through Samaria. Jesus stopped in Samaria to rest and get a drink on His way to Galilee. We do know His intention was to get to Galilee.

Outrider said:
She did not come to him. Jesus engaged her about her eternal destiny. She had business of her own to concern her. Had Jesus not come to her and engaged her, she would have gone on, business as usual. Only because Jesus came to her and engaged her did she beloieve and receive the gift of life. Once again, Jesus is the sole actuator of redemption. She is its passive recipient. Trying to get works righteousness out of this passage is a discipline in futility.

If Jesus did go to her intentionally, that still did not guarantee that the woman would be saved, nor does it take away from the fact that the woman still was to ask in order to receive. Jesus intentionally came to earth and died on the cross, but that did not guarantee the salvation of all, we have to 'ask'.

freegracertwo · Oct 14, 2005

Outrider,

Always nice to have a friendly chat with such a winning personality.

Thank you for your kind words.

freegracertwo · Oct 14, 2005

JustinWindsor said:
""Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers, cast out demons. Freely you received, freely give." Matthew 10:8

This next one is a little more weighty, but it explains free grace...as 'free'.

"But the free gift is not like the transgression. For if by the transgression of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many. The gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned; for on the one hand the judgment arose from one transgression resulting in condemnation, but on the other hand the free gift arose from many transgressions resulting in justification." Rom 5:15,16

"For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." Rom 6:23

"He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him over for us all, how will He not also with Him freely give us all things?" Rom 8:32

"Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God," 1 Cor 2:12

"to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved." Eph 1:6

You see folks, the grace we receive when we are born from above (John 3:1-7), is free. We ourselves, didn't do anything to merit it. We can't earn it. Then it wouldn't be free as Christ Himself and His Apostle have described in the above Scripture references.

To further show that it is a free gift, and that we don't do anything, we can see in Peter's explanation that it is also a 'causal' gift. The gift is the cause of our regeneration...the cause of our being born again.

"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead," 1 Peter 1:3

God the Father is the cause.
It is a free gift, unmerited.

Just in case my explanation so far isn't enough, hear the Apostle Paul describe the free gift in his letter to the Church family at Ephesus;

Ephesians 1

1Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God,
To the saints in Ephesus,[a] the faithful[b] in Christ Jesus:

2Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. 3Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. 4For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will 6to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves.

Chosen by the Father in eternity past, according to His own will, before we were able to think and act. There is no merit of our own, it is a FREE gift.

In love 5he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will 6to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. 7In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God's grace 8that he lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding. 9And he[d] made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, 10to be put into effect when the times will have reached their fulfillmentto bring all things in heaven and on earth together under one head, even Christ.

Redeemed by Christ - God the Son. We can't redeem ourselves.
It is free.

11In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, 12in order that we, who were the first to hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory. 13And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possessionto the praise of his glory.

Sealed by the Holy Spirit, again, we can't seal ourselves, we can't earn it, we can't buy it, we can't repay it...it is FREE.

Chosen by the Father (according to His will - vs 5)
Redeemed by the Son (according to His will - vs 9)
Sealed by the Holy Spirit (according to His will - vs 11)

We didn't earn it, we didn't merit it, we didn't WILL it.
The Apostle has clearly stated the Triune God did it all.

Willed it, purposed it, Chose it, redeemed it, and sealed it.
Because He wanted to.
It was a gift in every way.

May God bless you in the renewing of your mind.

Now that is an excellent post!

jmacvols · Oct 14, 2005

JustinWindsor said:
""Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers, cast out demons. Freely you received, freely give." Matthew 10:8

This next one is a little more weighty, but it explains free grace...as 'free'.

"But the free gift is not like the transgression. For if by the transgression of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many. The gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned; for on the one hand the judgment arose from one transgression resulting in condemnation, but on the other hand the free gift arose from many transgressions resulting in justification." Rom 5:15,16

"For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." Rom 6:23

"He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him over for us all, how will He not also with Him freely give us all things?" Rom 8:32

"Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God," 1 Cor 2:12

"to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved." Eph 1:6

You see folks, the grace we receive when we are born from above (John 3:1-7), is free. We ourselves, didn't do anything to merit it. We can't earn it. Then it wouldn't be free as Christ Himself and His Apostle have described in the above Scripture references.

To further show that it is a free gift, and that we don't do anything, we can see in Peter's explanation that it is also a 'causal' gift. The gift is the cause of our regeneration...the cause of our being born again.

"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead," 1 Peter 1:3

God the Father is the cause.
It is a free gift, unmerited.

Just in case my explanation so far isn't enough, hear the Apostle Paul describe the free gift in his letter to the Church family at Ephesus;

Ephesians 1

1Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God,
To the saints in Ephesus,[a] the faithful[b] in Christ Jesus:

2Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. 3Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. 4For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will 6to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves.

Chosen by the Father in eternity past, according to His own will, before we were able to think and act. There is no merit of our own, it is a FREE gift.

In love 5he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will 6to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. 7In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God's grace 8that he lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding. 9And he[d] made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, 10to be put into effect when the times will have reached their fulfillmentto bring all things in heaven and on earth together under one head, even Christ.

Redeemed by Christ - God the Son. We can't redeem ourselves.
It is free.

11In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, 12in order that we, who were the first to hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory. 13And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possessionto the praise of his glory.

Sealed by the Holy Spirit, again, we can't seal ourselves, we can't earn it, we can't buy it, we can't repay it...it is FREE.

Chosen by the Father (according to His will - vs 5)
Redeemed by the Son (according to His will - vs 9)
Sealed by the Holy Spirit (according to His will - vs 11)

We didn't earn it, we didn't merit it, we didn't WILL it.
The Apostle has clearly stated the Triune God did it all.

Willed it, purposed it, Chose it, redeemed it, and sealed it.
Because He wanted to.
It was a gift in every way.

May God bless you in the renewing of your mind.

How then does God choose whom to give this 'free gift' to and whom to withhold it from?

DouglasMabry · Oct 14, 2005

jmacvols said:
How then does God choose whom to give this 'free gift' to and whom to withhold it from?

His free act of grace. In your theology of works-righteousness, you would force God against His free act of grace. And once again you set yourself up as a far better, superior person than the rest of us since you will be declared righteous by virtue of your acts of obedience.

Douglas

Beoga · Oct 14, 2005

jmacvols said:
How then does God choose whom to give this 'free gift' to and whom to withhold it from?

This was answered in JustinWindsor's post:
Eph 1:4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love
Eph 1:5 he predestined us for adoption through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,

Absolutely Free or Not?

Eternal life: Free or costly?

Absolutely Free: No provisos, caveats, strings attached. Grace through faith in Jesus Christ.

Costly: One must commit, surrender, die to self, be obedient, and persevere till the end.

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