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The universe is time based showing progression from one moment to the next it allows us to see that the universe does in fact have a starting point.. and with this starting point it shows is that the universe could not be responsible for itself... for it would not be able to initiate its own beginning nor would it be able to create itself.
If time didn't exist then our physical world could not exist either seeing that time appears to be the measure of progression of physical objects.. time allows movement.. change.. progression etc for a physical world.. without time a physical world would have no progression and be stuck at 1 single moment..
God " The Intelligent Force that everything extends from" exists in Eternity.. outside of time.. This explains why hes sees our existence all at once.. knowing the beginning and the ending .. because we live linear in the physical world while "He" sees the entire beginning and end all at once. Picture a ruler.. we live from inch to inch starting at 0.. while God sees the entire ruler all at once.
Infinity does not exist in the physical.. we are progressing now which is evidence of a initial starting point.. because without an initial starting point in time.. there is no reference for each moment following..
This is a lot to grasp and it definitely leads further... but just wanted to start here with a basic interpretation of how I view Creation.. and the reason why.. feel free to share thoughts hopefully this sparks some interesting discussion..
Very interesting.
The universe is time based showing progression from one moment to the next it allows us to see that the universe does in fact have a starting point.. and with this starting point it shows is that the universe could not be responsible for itself... for it would not be able to initiate its own beginning nor would it be able to create itself.
If time didn't exist then our physical world could not exist either seeing that time appears to be the measure of progression of physical objects.. time allows movement.. change.. progression etc for a physical world.. without time a physical world would have no progression and be stuck at 1 single moment..
God " The Intelligent Force that everything extends from" exists in Eternity.. outside of time.. This explains why hes sees our existence all at once.. knowing the beginning and the ending .. because we live linear in the physical world while "He" sees the entire beginning and end all at once. Picture a ruler.. we live from inch to inch starting at 0.. while God sees the entire ruler all at once.
Infinity does not exist in the physical.. we are progressing now which is evidence of a initial starting point.. because without an initial starting point in time.. there is no reference for each moment following..
This is a lot to grasp and it definitely leads further... but just wanted to start here with a basic interpretation of how I view Creation.. and the reason why.. feel free to share thoughts hopefully this sparks some interesting discussion..
The universe is time based showing progression from one moment to the next it allows us to see that the universe does in fact have a starting point..
If time didn't exist then our physical world could not exist either seeing that time appears to be the measure of progression of physical objects.. time allows movement.. change.. progression etc for a physical world.. without time a physical world would have no progression and be stuck at 1 single moment..
God " The Intelligent Force that everything extends from" exists in Eternity.. outside of time..
I have absolutely no idea what you might mean by: "creating" in the absence of time.I define "God" as the "Creative Force that everything extends from" . I see a God that Created life forms.
This analogy of God outside of time, one dimension higher, looking down on the time ruler, doesn't ring true to me. I would prefer something like God creating each instant of the universe frame by frame as he polls the results of the previous instant. God creates both the entire universe and the time it resides in at the same instant.God " The Intelligent Force that everything extends from" exists in Eternity.. outside of time.. This explains why hes sees our existence all at once.. knowing the beginning and the ending .. because we live linear in the physical world while "He" sees the entire beginning and end all at once. Picture a ruler.. we live from inch to inch starting at 0.. while God sees the entire ruler all at once.
Yes, correct. The physical material universe is distinct from the spiritual realm. The physical material universe is inert and living only in the chemical biological sense. The spiritual realm contains everything else: ideas, symbols, mathematics, emotion, love, souls, everything. God is beyond the spiritual realm just as he is beyond time and space.Infinity does not exist in the physical
This sounds like Anselm's "Prime Mover" (First Uncaused Cause) argument.
There are the obvious responses like: "Why is God outside space and time?" It doesn't answer any questions (let along prove anything) other than to propose that there is something that doesn't follow the same rules you have laid down for the rest of the universe. Special pleading.
I'm not familiar with Anselm's relationship to the prime mover argument; the argument I'm most familiar with is his ontological argument: "God is that than which nothing greater can be conceived".
-CryptoLutheran
My mistake, I meant Aquinas. I always get those guys confused.
The universe is time based showing progression from one moment to the next it allows us to see that the universe does in fact have a starting point.. and with this starting point it shows is that the universe could not be responsible for itself... for it would not be able to initiate its own beginning nor would it be able to create itself.
If time didn't exist then our physical world could not exist either seeing that time appears to be the measure of progression of physical objects.. time allows movement.. change.. progression etc for a physical world.. without time a physical world would have no progression and be stuck at 1 single moment..
God " The Intelligent Force that everything extends from" exists in Eternity..
outside of time..
This explains why hes sees our existence all at once.. knowing the beginning and the ending .. because we live linear in the physical world while "He" sees the entire beginning and end all at once. Picture a ruler.. we live from inch to inch starting at 0.. while God sees the entire ruler all at once.
Infinity does not exist in the physical.. we are progressing now which is evidence of a initial starting point.. because without an initial starting point in time.. there is no reference for each moment following..
This is a lot to grasp and it definitely leads further... but just wanted to start here with a basic interpretation of how I view Creation.. and the reason why.. feel free to share thoughts hopefully this sparks some interesting discussion..
This sounds like Anselm's "Prime Mover" (First Uncaused Cause) argument.
There are the obvious responses like: "Why is God outside space and time?" It doesn't answer any questions (let along prove anything) other than to propose that there is something that doesn't follow the same rules you have laid down for the rest of the universe. Special pleading.
I don't see a logical means for a physical world subject to time to exist without a realm that isn't subject to time..
Eternity.. and with us being here and alive.. I think that is proof that "something" didn't require a beginning..
because that would put us in an endless loop of who created who..
so something obviously required no creation..
and with this world being subject to time..
and progression I'm inclined to believe that our universe exists inside of eternity.
1. We are able to progress at different points in time.. and this progression can be calculated equally for all objects in existence.. meaning that at some point there was a reference from which to make each addition point.
meaning that in order for point C to exist.. there has to be point A.. the intial point to serve as the reference.. each point in existence.. is distinguished from other points via it's relation to the initial point. You can't progress. without having a point to progress from..
I believe we are in a form of the "Matrix". Everything is subject to the "Creative Force".. there is nothing that guarantees that gravity .. electricity.. physics etc.. will function the it has historically tomorrow.. that's completely up to the "Creator".
That's not absolute proof of God's existence.The universe is time based showing progression from one moment to the next it allows us to see that the universe does in fact have a starting point.. and with this starting point it shows is that the universe could not be responsible for itself... for it would not be able to initiate its own beginning nor would it be able to create itself.
If time didn't exist then our physical world could not exist either seeing that time appears to be the measure of progression of physical objects.. time allows movement.. change.. progression etc for a physical world.. without time a physical world would have no progression and be stuck at 1 single moment..
God " The Intelligent Force that everything extends from" exists in Eternity.. outside of time.. This explains why hes sees our existence all at once.. knowing the beginning and the ending .. because we live linear in the physical world while "He" sees the entire beginning and end all at once. Picture a ruler.. we live from inch to inch starting at 0.. while God sees the entire ruler all at once.
Infinity does not exist in the physical.. we are progressing now which is evidence of a initial starting point.. because without an initial starting point in time.. there is no reference for each moment following..
This is a lot to grasp and it definitely leads further... but just wanted to start here with a basic interpretation of how I view Creation.. and the reason why.. feel free to share thoughts hopefully this sparks some interesting discussion..
The fact that time progresses doesn't mean that it has a starting point. It could be infinite.
Even if this universe isn't infinite, that doesn't mean that it couldn't exist within an infinite multiverse.
However, if our universe is but one within an endless multiverse with it's own time, then that multiverse could create our universe.
Or, maybe our universe did create itself using time travelers.
Citation needed.
You can't just jump from "a cause is necessary" to "therefore that cause has to be a single intelligent being, and it happens to be my God." Perhaps the universe was the natural product of unintelligent colliding branes within a multiverse. Or maybe we're all in a computer simulation created by many beings similar to ourselves.
There are lots of possible explanations, but regardless, I don't see any objective evidence that can only/best be explained by the existence of deities, so until I do I'm disinclined to believe that they exist.
Really?
So... when you step on an airplane, do you then pray for electro-magnetism, gravity, etc to continue to function properly out of fear of meeting certain death?
Or do you rather just say this to make your fallacious argument sound more reasonable, while not actually believing that gravity might suddenly stop working tomorrow?
The universe isn't SUBJECT to time.
Time, rather, is an integral part of the universe (aka, the space-time continuum) - which is not the same thing.
Perhaps, perhaps not. Unlike you, I'm not going to pretend as if a human "common sense" approach to such vastly alien and complex issues is going to have any merrit.
Because more then likely, whatever the answer is, it is not going to play along nicely with what "common sense" would dictate. Just like most other fundamental discoveries concerning weirdo physics, it is likely going to be utterly counter-intuitive.
Your claims concerning this creating god, clearly is just an attempt to marry these complex problems with your human intuition / common sense.
History learns us that such approaches more often then not, simply lead to very very wrong answers.
There you go again, assuming a "who". What's wrong with a "what"? How have you determined that a "who" is at all required?
Why, again?
Nope. As said, the universe isn't "subject" to time. Time rather is a property of the universe. This particular universe, to be exact.
Remove the universe = remove time.
And you can believe whatever you like.
But your thread title isn't "absolute BELIEF god exists".
It is "absolute PROOF god exists".
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