Absolute Evil?

Tellyontellyon

Well-Known Member
Jan 19, 2020
732
234
52
Wales
✟112,799.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Buddhist
Marital Status
Married
A) I've sometimes heard people say that Evil is simply the absence of good, but others say that Evil is a definitely existing force.
What do you say, and what should Christians believe?

B) Is the devil a definitely existing being or a metaphor?

C) What about demons, are they real?

D) Have you any testimony of encounters with or definite experience of A, B or C that you are willing to share?

E) How does having a world view that includes A, B, or C make a difference to how you relate to your understanding of how life/relationships unfold?

F) Thank you for answering my questions! ♥
 
  • Like
Reactions: zippy2006

Tolworth John

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Mar 10, 2017
8,278
4,678
68
Tolworth
✟369,679.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
How does having a world view that includes A, B, or C make a difference to how you relate to your understanding of how life/relationships unfold?

Evil is the absence of opposite of good and the devil and demons are real.
No I am fortunate vin that I cannot relate stories involving such evil beings.

For me knowing that a Good, Holy, Merciful, Just and Gracious God cares about me makes all the difference to my life.
To believe that everything was unplanned chaos in an uncaring world would be depressing.
For mecthe difference can be expressed in two statements.

Jesus's last words, " It is Finished "
Buddha's last words " Always strive "
 
Upvote 0

crossnote

Berean
Site Supporter
May 16, 2010
2,903
1,593
So. Cal.
✟250,751.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
A) I've sometimes heard people say that Evil is simply the absence of good, but others say that Evil is a definitely existing force.
What do you say, and what should Christians believe?

B) Is the devil a definitely existing being or a metaphor?

C) What about demons, are they real?

D) Have you any testimony of encounters with or definite experience of A, B or C that you are willing to share?

E) How does having a world view that includes A, B, or C make a difference to how you relate to your understanding of how life/relationships unfold?

F) Thank you for answering my questions! ♥
Metaphors don't get tossed into a lake of fire...

Revelation 20:10 (KJV) And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Matthew 25:41 (KJV) Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
 
Upvote 0

ViaCrucis

Confessional Lutheran
Oct 2, 2011
37,457
26,886
Pacific Northwest
✟732,154.00
Country
United States
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Others
A) I've sometimes heard people say that Evil is simply the absence of good, but others say that Evil is a definitely existing force.
What do you say, and what should Christians believe?

The historic, orthodox Christian view is a firm rejection of cosmic dualism: that there are two opposing forces at work, Good and Evil. Good is real, it exists, because God is real and made all things imbuing all things with His own goodness. There is no equal opposite to God, there are only creatures, creatures created as good, created by the good God, creatures made and imbued by God's own goodness. Thus evil cannot have its own objective existence, but is by necessity the absence, the rejection, and/or the twisting or malformation of the good. Evil, therefore is the estrangement from God, the rejection of the good, and in the case of us human beings, the denial of our own God-given humanity.

There is no cosmic evil; there are only creatures which are evil through their own willful rejection, denial, and removal of themselves from God and all goodness.

B) Is the devil a definitely existing being or a metaphor?

The devil is a creature, just like you or me. Christianity historically recognizes the existence of two kinds of rational creatures (in contrast to "irrational" creatures such as non-human animals, plants, and non-living things): human beings and angels.

The devil, aska Satan, is a creature of the second category, an angel. Specifically a fallen angel. Exactly how, when, why, (etc) of when the devil and the other fallen angels fell is unknown. The Bible doesn't seem particularly interested in providing that information, but merely assumes this to be the case.

C) What about demons, are they real?

Demons are just another word for fallen angels, they are also known as devils, plural. Where Satan is known as "the devil", all of the fallen angels are known variously as either devils or demons, these are synonymous terms.

The word "demon" is taken from the Greek word δαίμων (daemon) which has a complicated history. Originally, in Greek mythology and Hellenistic religion a daemon referred to an entire class of various divine powers, and is applied to a whole range of beings, even the Olympian gods are at times referred to as daemons, though most often daemons were more like sub-divine spirits: nymphs, satyrs, various nature spirits, weather spirits, even the souls of the dead were daemons. Daemons were neither inherently good nor inherently evil in Greek mythology, they were as diverse in their temperament, personalities, and dispositions as human beings.

Through the interactions between Jews and Greeks following the conquest of Alexander the Great, and all the complicated history that followed that, the word daemon came to be used by some Jews to refer to the fallen angels of Jewish literature and stories. While modern Judaism does not subscribe to the idea of fallen angels, Judaism in the 2nd Temple period was far more diverse, and there did exist a belief--at least with some Jews--in fallen angels, evil spirits. And so during the Hellenistic, and then later Roman occupations, the Greek word daemon became associated in Jewish thought with evil spirits, fallen angels, etc. And this is the theological landscape into which Christianity arose. And so Christians, likewise, used this word in the same sense. But where Judaism eventually ceased to have a belief in such things, it has persisted in Christianity.

The word "devil" likewise is of Greek origin, διάβολος (diabolos), a Greek word meaning "accuser". It is, in a pretty straight-forward way, a Greek translation of the Hebrew word shaytan (from which "Satan" is derived", which likewise means "accuser". In a broad sense it has been used, since antiquity among Christians as a synonym for demons, but in the specific sense it is used to refer to leader of the demons/devils, Satan, the accuser.

In the Middle Ages, in the West, the Latin translation of the Bible produced by St. Jerome dominated, in which we find a passage from the book of the Prophet Isaiah in which the king of Babylon is described with the satirical epithet "lucifer" (meaning "light-bearing"), the Latin translation of heylel "shining", aka the planet Venus or "morning star". This is said of the king of Babylon satirically, mockingly, because the king saw himself as one of the gods in the heavens, like a shining light in the sky, but is brought low, has nothing, and shall weep as he is mocked by the nations. Medieval Christian exegetes saw in this mocking attack against the king of Babylon a kind of allusion to Satan and his fall, that the devil in his pride sought to lift himself up above the throne of God, but has fallen, lost, defeated, and will be the mockery of all time. And, as such, the word lucifer came to be seen as another name for the devil, which is why the devil/Satan is sometimes referred to as "Lucifer" as though it were a proper name.

Indeed, the devil is never given a name in the Bible, even allowing the exegesis of Isaiah to be an allusion to the devil, lucifer is still only an epithet. Likewise the devil, and Satan are simply descriptors, they are references to this creature as an evil accuser

D) Have you any testimony of encounters with or definite experience of A, B or C that you are willing to share?

Nothing definitive, or that I can't rule out as being entirely products of my own imagination. I am generally very skeptical of personal experiences--including my own.

E) How does having a world view that includes A, B, or C make a difference to how you relate to your understanding of how life/relationships unfold?

Generally, not much. I believe that the devil is defeated, Christ defeated him by dying and rising from the dead. The devil's chief works are that he is a deceiver and a liar.

Martin Luther suggested that the devil can be defeated by one little word--calling him a liar.

"For all such books written against me, even if there were as many as thousands of them written every day and every hour, are very easily refuted with the single word, 'Devil, you lie,' just as that haughty beggar Dr. Luther sings so proudly and boldly in those words of his hymn, 'One little word shall fell him.'" - Martin Luther (yes, he does refer to himself in the third person in a self-deprecating way)

F) Thank you for answering my questions! ♥

Hope it helped somewhat.

-CryptoLutheran
 
Upvote 0

TzephanYahu

Active Member
Sep 9, 2018
306
283
Dorset
✟96,000.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Hey @Tellyontellyon

A) I've sometimes heard people say that Evil is simply the absence of good, but others say that Evil is a definitely existing force.
What do you say, and what should Christians believe?

Evil is not a vacuum where no good resides. Neither is it a force with a mind and will. But just as you may say "this person is good" or "this person does good", so it is with evil.

B) Is the devil a definitely existing being or a metaphor?

He is a being. Once a high angel who fell from his position once deceit was found in him. He had a vendetta against mankind and also Yahweh, which he still harbours today.

C) What about demons, are they real?

Unfortunately yes. Shadim (demons) are the spirits of the a certain creature. In Genesis 6, we read how the fallen angels came and mated with women. These women bore hybrid creations, half man half angel, who were gigantic - known as the Nephilim. In was on this account that corruption was spread across the world and the main reason for the Noah's Flood.

After the flood, the disembodied spirits of these giants roamed the world as "evil spirits" or "demons", which plague mankind. Whilst some were sent into torment, a tenth of them remained on the earth under Satan's commanded, for he pleaded with the Most High to keep them to help him "lead men astray, because great is the wickedness of men".

You can read more about this principally in the Book of 1 Enoch and the Book of Jubilees. Both found in the Dead Sea Scrolls and highly likely to be part of the Bible canon (if there were such a thing) in days before Messiah came.

D) Have you any testimony of encounters with or definite experience of A, B or C that you are willing to share?

A - Haven't we all witnessed evil, both great and small?
B - Not the devil himself. I think he has his hands full at the moment. The end of days draws very near.
C - I've witnessed demon possession and seen them cast out. I have also seen witchcraft at work by evil spirits. Not nice stuff.

E) How does having a world view that includes A, B, or C make a difference to how you relate to your understanding of how life/relationships unfold?

I'm not sure I understand your question. Understanding such things changes your perceptions of world affairs and people's actions somewhat I suppose. But I'm not sure what you mean, sorry.

F) Thank you for answering my questions! ♥

You're very welcome!

Love & shalom
 
Upvote 0

Radagast

comes and goes
Site Supporter
Dec 10, 2003
23,821
9,817
✟312,047.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
A) I've sometimes heard people say that Evil is simply the absence of good, but others say that Evil is a definitely existing force.

Christianity has always held the idea that evil is the absence of good. As Augustine says, "... evil has no positive nature; but the loss of good has received the name 'evil.'" (City of God, XI, 9).

In particular, there are no inherently evil people or things. Evil people are people created in the image of God, but horribly twisted by sin. Making inappropriate contentographic movies involves taking good things (like cameras) and using them for sinful purposes.

Likewise, there are no evil pleasures per se, only good pleasures taken "at times, or in ways, or in degrees, which He [God] has forbidden," to quote C.S. Lewis.

B) Is the devil a definitely existing being or a metaphor?

A definitely existing being.

C) What about demons, are they real?

Yes.

E) How does having a world view that includes A, B, or C make a difference to how you relate to your understanding of how life/relationships unfold?

Read The Screwtape Letters or the novel That Hideous Strength by C.S. Lewis.
 
Upvote 0

bling

Regular Member
Site Supporter
Feb 27, 2008
16,184
1,809
✟803,026.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
A) I've sometimes heard people say that Evil is simply the absence of good, but others say that Evil is a definitely existing force.
What do you say, and what should Christians believe?
Evil is absent of good, evil itself is not good, but good can come from evil if evil is seen as an opportunity to do good. Evil is more then just the absence of good, since it is extremely powerful and can take Spiritual power humans are not born with to overcome evil.
B) Is the devil a definitely existing being or a metaphor?
Satan is both a being and can be used as a metaphor to describe a particularly evil person or action.
C) What about demons, are they real?
I think we underestimate the powers around us, both good and bad, so yes Demon’s exist but are limited by God.
D) Have you any testimony of encounters with or definite experience of A, B or C that you are willing to share?
At the time evil has come into my life I did not recognize it since I was so caught up in selfishness but only later could I see what had happened and when I quenched the indwelling Holy Spirit and was on my own. Satan and his demons want to remain hidden at this time, partly to keep people from believing in anything supernatural and thus seeking God’s help. More can be said about this.
E) How does having a world view that includes A, B, or C make a difference to how you relate to your understanding of how life/relationships unfold?
I see God involved in doing and allowing everything that has happened and will happen. Satan and demons roaming the earth is not what God desires, but what He allows to help us in our fulfilling our earthly objective.
 
Upvote 0

Tellyontellyon

Well-Known Member
Jan 19, 2020
732
234
52
Wales
✟112,799.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Buddhist
Marital Status
Married
The historic, orthodox Christian view is a firm rejection of cosmic dualism: that there are two opposing forces at work, Good and Evil.
It's there nothing in scripture that addresses or is relevant to these views?
 
Upvote 0

ViaCrucis

Confessional Lutheran
Oct 2, 2011
37,457
26,886
Pacific Northwest
✟732,154.00
Country
United States
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Others
It's there nothing in scripture that addresses or is relevant to these views?

Consistently Scripture proclaims that there is only one God, God. God is everywhere, filling all things, for example Solomon after building the Temple responds to the idea of God dwelling in the Temple by saying, "The heavens, not even the heavens of heavens can contain You, how much less this house which I have built." (1 Kings 8:27). St. Paul says "There is one God and Father of all, who is over all, through all, and in all" (Ephesians 4:6). And so on. There is, therefore only one who is like this, there is only one God. None greater, none His equal, "for I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me," (Isaiah 46:9).

This excludes the possibility of some kind of dual cosmic powers set in competition to one another, a good power and and evil power. There is only God, who is good, all else is what He has made, and after making all things He declared everything "exceedingly good" (Genesis 1:31).

As such anything that isn't God is something God made, and God did not make evil. But He did create creatures who have volition and and with moral agency. It is within this capacity of moral agency and will that some creatures turned away from God. That is what we read in the story of Adam and Eve, creatures made in the image and likeness of God, to reflect His own divine goodness and beauty in creation, but who through a choice turned their backs against God, tried to hide from God, and so evil--the deprivation, the malformation, the absence of the good through estrangement from God; a breech in the communion between God and His creation.

Rather than a propositional statement about metaphysical reality, the Bible instead presents a narrative of creation and creation's broken relationship to God in need of healing and reconciliation, which is what the Gospel is about, that's what salvation is: God's mending of the world through Christ.

-CryptoLutheran
 
Upvote 0