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Your comments dont mention Abraham at all and especially his justification in Genesis 12.James believed the same thing, ... ... ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ormly
The above sequence of events is wrong.
The Bible clearly states that Abraham had faith. On that account God chose him. God never chooses anyone who doesn't initially have faith in Him. It is only after God chooses him and deals with him through his life's choices, whereby Abraham is rectified, does God reveal the plan for His Family of "many sons brought into glory"..
If distinctions can be made and it all can be viewed in that light, perspectives will change.
What perspectives will change? All your claim leads to is a situation where Abraham believed in and pleased God all that time yet was never justified, that is absurd. Further if it was that hard for Abraham to be justified, imagine how hard it must be for us.
so when Did the spirit indwell him since this was a new thing once Christ offered to the church after the cross... Gal 5:22 this is a fruit from the SpiritAbraham had what Paul called "faith working through love" (Gal 5:6).
correctionYou are putting obedience against faith, when they actually are inseparable. Heb 11:6 DEFINES faith in its essence, you must believe God exists and that He rewards those who seek Him.
What perspectives will change? All your claim leads to is a situation where Abraham believed in and pleased God all that time yet was never justified,
that is absurd. Further if it was that hard for Abraham to be justified, imagine how hard it must be for us.
Very true. The priest was Melchizedec and he DID bless Abraham. It would be very interesting to bless someone who was never justified.
Indwelling of the Son of God breought forth Eternal life ..1 john 5:11-13
when does this happen to all or just believers...
1 cor 12:12-13, romans 8:9
there is a little difference ... but these must have happen for one to be saved.
Heb 1:14
It indwelt in him the time he was first justified, just as it does with us.so when Did the spirit indwell him since this was a new thing once Christ offered to the church after the cross... Gal 5:22 this is a fruit from the Spirit
If Abraham didnt have sanctifying grace in his soul when he died he couldnt enter Heaven. Entering Heaven requires that your soul is sanctified before you depart from this life (Rev 21:27).Abraham never had indwelling He was looking forward to eternal life
Amen (Rom 5:5). As long as sanctifying grace is in your soul you are an adopted child of God and heir to Heaven.Indwelling of the Son of God breought forth Eternal life ..1 john 5:11-13
Correction? Are you kidding me? You didnt even quote the verse I was talking about.correction
Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
when Enoch walked the earth so did the Son of God ... where is the Son of God now.... how does one seek him now? col 3:1-4
I never denied this so your passages dont contradict anything I have said.John 15:16 You have not chosen me , but I have chosen you.
John 15:5 b for without the Son you can do nothing
Wow. You not only are not responding to what Im saying, you are tossing out random ideas.Abraham was elect..heb 1:14 ..
called by God and chosen ....matt 20:16 ...
those God promised Him things showing the goodness of Salavation Romans 2:4
Thank God that we can use are Eternal life to experience God's kind of Life ! 1 john 5:11-13
It indwelt in him the time he was first justified, just as it does with us.
We are saved in the Spirit since God is spirit first john 4:24If Abraham didnt have sanctifying grace in his soul when he died he couldnt enter Heaven. Entering Heaven requires that your soul is sanctified before you depart from this life (Rev 21:27).
I quoted heb 11:1Amen (Rom 5:5). As long as sanctifying grace is in your soul you are an adopted child of God and heir to Heaven.
Correction? Are you kidding me? You didnt even quote the verse I was talking about.
I never denied this so your passages dont contradict anything I have said.
Wow. You not only are not responding to what Im saying, you are tossing out random ideas.
I dont have the time or energy to spend responding to things like these.
1. There was no indwelling of anything at this time. Ergo, Justification was no indwelling.Originally Posted by A Brother In Christ
so when Did the spirit indwell him since this was a new thing once Christ offered to the church after the cross... Gal 5:22 this is a fruit from the Spirit
It indwelt in him the time he was first justified, just as it does with us.
There has never been nor ever existed any “special sanctifying grace” to be given to anyone, ever. God’s Grace is the overflowing of His Nature that everyone born under the sun is capable of witnessing, leaving man without excuse for his unbelief. Abraham believed. His life testified to it and it was credited to his account as righteousness, enabling God to choose him for what He had in Mind for a people He would bring forth.Quote:
Abraham never had indwelling He was looking forward to eternal life
If Abraham didnt have sanctifying grace in his soul when he died he couldnt enter Heaven. Entering Heaven requires that your soul is sanctified before you depart from this life (Rev 21:27).
Again, you are mis-guided concerning “sanctifying grace”. Here: “But as many as received him, to them gave he power to *become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:” John 1:11-12 (KJV) No special grace needed.Quote:
Indwelling of the Son of God breought forth Eternal life ..1 john 5:11-13
Amen (Rom 5:5). As long as sanctifying grace is in your soul you are an adopted child of God and heir to Heaven.
Quote:
Originally Posted by holdon
"man is not justified except but by the faith of Jesus Christ" Gal 2:16.
The "except but" is a very strong term: it excludes all other means. One is justified only by faith. Clear and simple.
The REAL issue is justification by imputation (Protestant) or infusion (Catholic)? UNTIL you realize that is the real issue we will continue to talk past each other.
The OT saints could never become sons ... !
I disagree, places like Lk 1:15 say St. John the Baptist was filled with the Holy Spirit while still in the womb. (Jesus wasnt even born yet).I agree. It is a NT thing necessitating the Pentecostal experience.
I disagree, places like Lk 1:15 say St. John the Baptist was filled with the Holy Spirit while still in the womb. (Jesus wasnt even born yet).
The Baptism of Jesus was what is traditionally called a Theophany. It is a special revealing of God to man. In that event the Father, Son and Holy Spirit were for the first time shown together. It was also to set a pattern for how Christians are supposed to be Baptized.What was the baptism of Jesus Christ?
I dont know if he ever was or not.John the baptist was never baptised by Jesus Christ. Is that not true?
What do you mean?BtW, do you know how many manifestations there are of the Holy Spirit? It would behove to find out.
The Baptism of Jesus was what is traditionally called a Theophany. It is a special revealing of God to man. In that event the Father, Son and Holy Spirit were for the first time shown together. It was also to set a pattern for how Christians are supposed to be Baptized.
I dont know if he ever was or not.
What do you mean?
so, do you.....like me.....believe that Melchizedek was the Messiah back then? If so, then Abe was good to go right? And Christ uses Abe as example when explaining what heaven is like in Luke16, and he was on the good side of heaven then...justified...Very true. The priest was Melchizedec and he DID bless Abraham. It would be very interesting to bless someone who was never justified.
Melchizedek was the pre-incarnate Christ, no doubt. The term "the Angel of the Lord" is an indication as well.so, do you.....like me.....believe that Melchizedek was the Messiah back then? If so, then Abe was good to go right? And Christ uses Abe as example when explaining what heaven is like in Luke16, and he was on the good side of heaven then...justified...
His name means King of the upright/just/chosen....and Salem means peace...
IMO, that can only reference Him.
in His service
c
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