Dispensationalist Only About the Millennium

nolidad

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Are you the kind that subscribe to total depravity of man?

Yes for teh bible is clear- man is dead in his trespasses and sins.

Total depravioty does not mean that every person is as bad as they can ber, but that because they are by nature objects of wrath and that we are spiritually dead prior to teh new birth- we are as bad off as we can be!
 
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Guojing

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Yes for teh bible is clear- man is dead in his trespasses and sins.

Total depravioty does not mean that every person is as bad as they can ber, but that because they are by nature objects of wrath and that we are spiritually dead prior to teh new birth- we are as bad off as we can be!

Avoid using terms like "bible is clear", because its personal interpretation almost all the time.

So you follow the 1689 Baptist Confession of Faith?
 
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mmksparbud

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I am not sure if I'm a Dispensationalist, and here's part of why:

If Jesus literally reigns 1,000 years as King of the World, how can evil exist in the world when Satan is bound? Or does evil exist in the world at that time?

Also, if Jesus says that few will spend eternity with him as it says in the Sermon on the Mount, what is the purpose of the literal millennium?

When Jesus returns, He returns only for the saved--
1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.


2Pe_3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2Pe_3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
Jer 4:23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
Jer 4:24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
Jer 4:25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
Jer 4:26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.
Jer 4:27 For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.

The saved are taken to heaven to be with Jesus for a 1000 years. The lost living are destroyed at His coming, the lost dead remain dead---no one is left on this earth---it is destroyed, empty, Satan is bound to this empty earth with none to tempt, just him and his fellow fallen angels for a 1000 years in which he can contemplate his life. He is let loose when the dead lost are all resurrected after the 1000 years to face their judgment.
 
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nolidad

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Avoid using terms like "bible is clear", because its personal interpretation almost all the time.

So you follow the 1689 Baptist Confession of Faith?

Well we are forbidden to privately interpret Scripture!

But when Gods Word says this:

Ephesians 2 King James Version (KJV)
2 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

I can with complete confidence say unsaved are spiritually dead!


I do not know what the 1689 Baptist confession is. I would assume I follow lots of it, though I don't know.
 
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nolidad

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When Jesus returns, He returns only for the saved--
1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.


2Pe_3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2Pe_3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
Jer 4:23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
Jer 4:24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
Jer 4:25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
Jer 4:26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.
Jer 4:27 For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.

The saved are taken to heaven to be with Jesus for a 1000 years. The lost living are destroyed at His coming, the lost dead remain dead---no one is left on this earth---it is destroyed, empty, Satan is bound to this empty earth with none to tempt, just him and his fellow fallen angels for a 1000 years in which he can contemplate his life. He is let loose when the dead lost are all resurrected after the 1000 years to face their judgment.


The Corinthians and Thessalonian verses are the rapture and not the return of Jesus! That is Jesus going to teh atmosphere to collect His church.

Jesus returns as shown in REv.19:11-end
 
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mmksparbud

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The Corinthians and Thessalonian verses are the rapture and not the return of Jesus! That is Jesus going to teh atmosphere to collect His church.

Jesus returns as shown in REv.19:11-end


1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

How in the world do you get that out of these verses? Where does it say this is the rapture, not the return of Jesus? How is "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:"
not referring to Jesus?


Encyclopedias - International Standard Bible Encyclopedia - Prevent
PREVENT


pre-vent' (qadham; prophthano, phthano):

"Prevent" occurs in the King James Version in the literal but obsolete sense of "to come or go before," "to anticipate," not in the sense of "to hinder." It is the translation of qadham, "to be sharp," "to be in front," "to be beforehand" (2 Samuel 22:6,19, the Revised Version (British and American) "came upon" Job 3:12, the Revised Version (British and American) "receive"; 30:27, "are come upon"; 41:11, "first given"; Psalms 18:5,18, "came upon"; 21:3, the American Standard Revised Version "meetest"; 59:10, the American Standard Revised Version "meet"; 79:8, the American Standard Revised Version "meet"; 88:13, "come before"; 119:147,148, the American Standard Revised Version "anticipated"; Isaiah 21:14, "did meet"; Amos 9:10, the American Standard Revised Version "meet"). In the New Testament prophthano, with same meaning, is translated "prevent" (Matthew 17:25, "Jesus prevented him," the Revised Version (British and American) "spake first to him"); phthano (1 Thessalonians 4:15, "shall not prevent," the Revised Version (British and American) "shall in no wise precede"). "Prevent" in the above sense occurs in The Wisdom of Solomon 6:13, the Revised Version (British and American) "forestalleth" (phthano); 16:28, "we must prevent the sun to give thee thanks," the Revised Version (British and American) "rise before."


How is "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout," translated to mean "Jesus going to the atmosphere"?
 
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nolidad

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1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

How in the world do you get that out of these verses? Where does it say this is the rapture, not the return of Jesus? How is "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:"
not referring to Jesus?


Encyclopedias - International Standard Bible Encyclopedia - Prevent
PREVENT


pre-vent' (qadham; prophthano, phthano):

"Prevent" occurs in the King James Version in the literal but obsolete sense of "to come or go before," "to anticipate," not in the sense of "to hinder." It is the translation of qadham, "to be sharp," "to be in front," "to be beforehand" (2 Samuel 22:6,19, the Revised Version (British and American) "came upon" Job 3:12, the Revised Version (British and American) "receive"; 30:27, "are come upon"; 41:11, "first given"; Psalms 18:5,18, "came upon"; 21:3, the American Standard Revised Version "meetest"; 59:10, the American Standard Revised Version "meet"; 79:8, the American Standard Revised Version "meet"; 88:13, "come before"; 119:147,148, the American Standard Revised Version "anticipated"; Isaiah 21:14, "did meet"; Amos 9:10, the American Standard Revised Version "meet"). In the New Testament prophthano, with same meaning, is translated "prevent" (Matthew 17:25, "Jesus prevented him," the Revised Version (British and American) "spake first to him"); phthano (1 Thessalonians 4:15, "shall not prevent," the Revised Version (British and American) "shall in no wise precede"). "Prevent" in the above sense occurs in The Wisdom of Solomon 6:13, the Revised Version (British and American) "forestalleth" (phthano); 16:28, "we must prevent the sun to give thee thanks," the Revised Version (British and American) "rise before."


How is "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout," translated to mean "Jesus going to the atmosphere"?


Well thanks for the review of greek.

But how? Quiter simplyi! If you included the rest of Thesselonians!

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.


At the Rapture the Lord only descends to the atmosphere and brings us up! He doesn't come to earth!
 
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mmksparbud

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Well thanks for the review of greek.

But how? Quiter simplyi! If you included the rest of Thesselonians!

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.


At the Rapture the Lord only descends to the atmosphere and brings us up! He doesn't come to earth!


I never said He touched this earth!!! You're the one who said He goes to the atmosphere!

not the return of Jesus! That is Jesus going to teh atmosphere to collect His church.

How is Jesus coming to get the saved to take us to heaven for the 1000 years not the return of Jesus???
 
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nolidad

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I never said He touched this earth!!! You're the one who said He goes to the atmosphere!



How is Jesus coming to get the saved to take us to heaven for the 1000 years not the return of Jesus???


Because He doesn't come to earth! How can you call a return if He doesn't return.

Acts 1:
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;

11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

He left from earth and return to earth!

Rev. 19:

11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Is. 62 speaks of Jesus returning to earth at Petras to save Israel from the antichrist!

Isaiah 63 King James Version (KJV)
63 Who is this that cometh from Edom, with dyed garments from Bozrah? this that is glorious in his apparel, travelling in the greatness of his strength? I that speak in righteousness, mighty to save.

2 Wherefore art thou red in thine apparel, and thy garments like him that treadeth in the winefat?

3 I have trodden the winepress alone; and of the people there was none with me: for I will tread them in mine anger, and trample them in my fury; and their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments, and I will stain all my raiment.

4 For the day of vengeance is in mine heart, and the year of my redeemed is come.

5 And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me.

6 And I will tread down the people in mine anger, and make them drunk in my fury, and I will bring down their strength to the earth.

7 I will mention the lovingkindnesses of the Lord, and the praises of the Lord, according to all that the Lord hath bestowed on us, and the great goodness toward the house of Israel, which he hath bestowed on them according to his mercies, and according to the multitude of his lovingkindnesses.

8 For he said, Surely they are my people, children that will not lie: so he was their Saviour.

And we are not in heaven for the 1000 years, but we return to co reign with Jesus on the earth for 1,000 years.

We are the armies of heaven!

Revelation 19:8
And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

now compare that with rev. 19 verse 14.
 
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mmksparbud

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Because He doesn't come to earth! How can you call a return if He doesn't return.

How can you call not returning:
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

He returns for the saved---His feet do not touch this earth until after the 1000 year judgement and the earth is made new.
 
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nolidad

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How can you call not returning:
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

He returns for the saved---His feet do not touch this earth until after the 1000 year judgement and the earth is made new.


You are wrong! Jesus physically left the earth and will physically return! REv. 1 and Rev. 19 make that clear! the 1000 years is the length His kingdom reigns on earth! it is not a judgment!

reread revelation 19, Jesus makes war against the antichrist and the armies of the antichrist.

Zechariah 14 King James Version (KJV)
14 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

That is a physical return!
 
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mmksparbud

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You are wrong! Jesus physically left the earth and will physically return! REv. 1 and Rev. 19 make that clear! the 1000 years is the length His kingdom reigns on earth! it is not a judgment!

reread revelation 19, Jesus makes war against the antichrist and the armies of the antichrist.

Zechariah 14 King James Version (KJV)
14 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

That is a physical return!

You can believe whatever you want. Of course He comes back physically to take us to be with Him. I believe what the bible says that He will return for us, take us to heaven to be with Him for the 1000 years. After the 1000 years, the judgement of the wicked will take place and then the earth will be remade and the city will then come down and this earth will then forever be our home.
Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.


Jer 4:23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
Jer 4:24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
Jer 4:25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
Jer 4:26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.
Jer 4:27 For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.

Jer 4:28 For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.

This empty and desolate earth is the bottomless pit to which Satan and his angels will be bound to for those 1000 years---all the wicked will be dead, all the saved in heaven with Jesus---Satan will have no o0ne to tempt for those 1000 years, then the wicked are resurrected for their judgement and they do come to try to take the city as it is come down from heaven.

Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
 
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nolidad

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You can believe whatever you want. Of course He comes back physically to take us to be with Him. I believe what the bible says that He will return for us, take us to heaven to be with Him for the 1000 years. After the 1000 years, the judgement of the wicked will take place and then the earth will be remade and the city will then come down and this earth will then forever be our home.
Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.


Jer 4:23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
Jer 4:24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
Jer 4:25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
Jer 4:26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.
Jer 4:27 For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.

Jer 4:28 For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.

This empty and desolate earth is the bottomless pit to which Satan and his angels will be bound to for those 1000 years---all the wicked will be dead, all the saved in heaven with Jesus---Satan will have no o0ne to tempt for those 1000 years, then the wicked are resurrected for their judgement and they do come to try to take the city as it is come down from heaven.

Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

YOu need to learn simple definitions. To return to a place you had to inhabit that place for a time.


If Jesus spent His life in the air- then I would agree with you! But He spent His life on the planet. He left the planet and said he would return! You had to be somewhere to return to it! Coming into teh air is not returning as the Bible said Jesus would!

NOw pay close attention to the verses in Rev. 20 and 21 you posted! After the thousand years are ended- the antichrist goes around the earth to deceive people and to make war against the saints camped around the beloved city! The saints are on the earth! The beloved city is Jerusalem.

In revelation 21 we see NEW Jerusalem not the old one!

Matt. 25:
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

When is that?

Rev. 19:
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords.

17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;

18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

This happens at the end of the 70th week of daniel!

Now relook at REv. 20:

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

INi 19 jesus comes down and fights! IN Rev. 20 Fire comes down and destroys two different methods of defeating the devil separated by over 1000 years!

The Rapture of the church is not the return of Jesus to the earth as He promised multiple times!
 
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mmksparbud

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YOu need to learn simple definitions. To return to a place you had to inhabit that place for a time.


If Jesus spent His life in the air- then I would agree with you! But He spent His life on the planet. He left the planet and said he would return! You had to be somewhere to return to it! Coming into teh air is not returning as the Bible said Jesus would!

NOw pay close attention to the verses in Rev. 20 and 21 you posted! After the thousand years are ended- the antichrist goes around the earth to deceive people and to make war against the saints camped around the beloved city! The saints are on the earth! The beloved city is Jerusalem.

In revelation 21 we see NEW Jerusalem not the old one!

Matt. 25:
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

When is that?

Rev. 19:
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords.

17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;

18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

This happens at the end of the 70th week of daniel!

Now relook at REv. 20:

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

INi 19 jesus comes down and fights! IN Rev. 20 Fire comes down and destroys two different methods of defeating the devil separated by over 1000 years!

The Rapture of the church is not the return of Jesus to the earth as He promised multiple times!


Jesus spend His entire life, before and after the incarnation in heaven with His Father. Before the incarnation, that was untold billions of years for both are from everlasting. He spent only 33 1/2 years on this planet.

The wicked, as has been stated several times, are all resurrected---which is on this planet, of course, to face their judgment. They and Satan will have a desolate, totally destroyed earth as was described in Jeremiah. The earthly Jerusalem, along with everything else has been destroyed. They see the new Jerusalem coming down from heaven, and they want to take the city for this is an empty planet and they see the beauty of what they will be loosing and want to take it by force. It plainly states fire comes down from God and devours them. All is thrown into the lake of fire and destroyed and the New Jerusalem is brought down on a remade earth where Jesus will be our temple. Everything according to what the scriptures say.
 
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nolidad

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Jesus spend His entire life, before and after the incarnation in heaven with His Father. Before the incarnation, that was untold billions of years for both are from everlasting. He spent only 33 1/2 years on this planet.

The wicked, as has been stated several times, are all resurrected---which is on this planet, of course, to face their judgment. They and Satan will have a desolate, totally destroyed earth as was described in Jeremiah. The earthly Jerusalem, along with everything else has been destroyed. They see the new Jerusalem coming down from heaven, and they want to take the city for this is an empty planet and they see the beauty of what they will be loosing and want to take it by force. It plainly states fire comes down from God and devours them. All is thrown into the lake of fire and destroyed and the New Jerusalem is brought down on a remade earth where Jesus will be our temple. Everything according to what the scriptures say.


Yes but He told His disciples He would return and the angels said as well in Acts 1. We know Jesus inhabited eternity , but He was referring to coming back to earth! Which He does at the end of the campaign of Armeggedon!
 
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mmksparbud

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Yes but He told His disciples He would return and the angels said as well in Acts 1. We know Jesus inhabited eternity , but He was referring to coming back to earth! Which He does at the end of the campaign of Armeggedon!

If that's what you want top think---it's just not biblical. He comes and gets us, sitting on His throne, and takes us to heaven for the 1000 years, Armageddon is when the resurrected lost come against the descending New Jerusalem. The earth is remade the city descends and then Jesus steps foot on this earth---Jesus is not going to step on this earth until it is remade. He is serving as our High Priest now, presenting His Holy blood for us, when He is done, He says so and comes and gets us and He comes with ALL His angels---that's why there is silence in heaven for 1/2 hour----there is no one there!!
Rev 21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
Rev_8:1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.
Mat_25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
 
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ItIsFinished!

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The removal of the Bride (Church) by the Groom (Christ) is NOT to be confused with the Second Coming of Christ.

When the Church is REMOVED, all believers in Christ since the Day of Pentacost ( dead in Christ first) will meet the Lord in the air/clouds and be with Him from that point forever.

During the Second Coming of Christ, He (Jesus) literally sets His foot on the Mount of Olives before Jerusalem.

Two seperate and DISTINCT events which have not happen yet (obviously), but 100% most certainly will.

We are on the cusp...
 
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nolidad

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If that's what you want top think---it's just not biblical. He comes and gets us, sitting on His throne, and takes us to heaven for the 1000 years, Armageddon is when the resurrected lost come against the descending New Jerusalem. The earth is remade the city descends and then Jesus steps foot on this earth---Jesus is not going to step on this earth until it is remade. He is serving as our High Priest now, presenting His Holy blood for us, when He is done, He says so and comes and gets us and He comes with ALL His angels---that's why there is silence in heaven for 1/2 hour----there is no one there!!
Rev 21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
Rev_8:1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.
Mat_25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:


So you have the events of Revelation 19 happening at Revelation 8:1 when the is silence and before the bowls and trumpet judgments?

You also have the events of revelation 20:7-10 happening with the resurrection of the lost in Revelation 20:13-17? Satan goes and deceives the nations! so are you saying the dead are around the globe.

On what authority do you have Jesus returning in REv. 8:1 :
Revelation 8 King James Version (KJV)
8 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.

2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.

3 And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.

4 And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.

5 And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake.

6 And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.

Seems you have the book of revelation all strewn about time wise. Why should we accept your interpretation, instead of a standard straight forward time line????

When do the trumpet and bowl judgments on earth take place if =Jesus is coming back at teh opening of the seventh seal? When does the Antichrist declare genocide and make war with Israel as told in Revelation and Matthew 24? When is Israel provided for for 3 1/2 years as told in scripture? When does the Antichrist marshal HIs forces at Armageddon and march on Petra where Jesus returns and fights Him as foretold in Scripture?

I would really like to know what you have to say on this. You have an entirely new hermeneutic on the end timeline! I have studied for over 25 years on Eschatology and taught in bible Institute and never heard you r timeline ever.
 
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mmksparbud

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So you have the events of Revelation 19 happening at Revelation 8:1 when the is silence and before the bowls and trumpet judgments?

You also have the events of revelation 20:7-10 happening with the resurrection of the lost in Revelation 20:13-17? Satan goes and deceives the nations! so are you saying the dead are around the globe.

On what authority do you have Jesus returning in REv. 8:1 :
Revelation 8 King James Version (KJV)
8 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.

2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.

3 And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.

4 And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.

5 And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake.

6 And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.

Seems you have the book of revelation all strewn about time wise. Why should we accept your interpretation, instead of a standard straight forward time line????

When do the trumpet and bowl judgments on earth take place if =Jesus is coming back at teh opening of the seventh seal? When does the Antichrist declare genocide and make war with Israel as told in Revelation and Matthew 24? When is Israel provided for for 3 1/2 years as told in scripture? When does the Antichrist marshal HIs forces at Armageddon and march on Petra where Jesus returns and fights Him as foretold in Scripture?

I would really like to know what you have to say on this. You have an entirely new hermeneutic on the end timeline! I have studied for over 25 years on Eschatology and taught in bible Institute and never heard you r timeline ever.

Revelation is not in chronological order!! Neither is the rest of the bible, you do have to piece it together----Rev 8:1 is the 7th seal---the very last seal, there are no more after that!
So you think the dead are only around where you live? There are the wicked dead all around the globe just as there are the saved all around the globe!! Both Jesus and Satan gather them together.
There is no 3 1/2 year time line for Israel, it is a total misunderstanding of the Prophecy of Daniel. Daniel and Revelation must be understood together. This is not my understanding of scripture---it is what the scriptures say--scripture interprets scripture---it is not for man to do so.

2Pe 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
2Pe 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
 
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