About the current book called "Book of Jasher"...

[SummaScriptura]

It was not found in the Dead Sea Scrolls.

It does not have quotes, references and allusions to it in books written after the time of Samuel but before the time of Christ.

It does not have quotes, references and allusions to it in books written during the Apostolic Age.

It does not have quotes, references and allusions to it in books written during the first sixteen centuries of Christianity.

It was never in any bound copy of the Bible for any Jewish or Christian group.

It does not have a clear rediscovery point, but is shrouded in secrecy.

In a word, the Book of Jasher that exists today lacks PROVENANCE, therefore it cannot be validated historically as being the same book used by Joshua and Samuel. Missing for 2,600 years then, voila! There it is? I don't think so.

As a point of contrast, I am not able to produce, for example, a photograph of the text of Enoch being penned by the Biblical Enoch. I can however, historically demonstrate that the Book of Enoch which is preserved complete in Ethiopia is the same Book of Enoch, Jude quoted. We do this by tracing the purported history of Ethiopic Enoch back to the Dead Sea Scrolls to demonstrate continuity FOR THE TEXT AS WE HAVE IT TODAY, not the book's Enochic authorship which is not demonstrable historically, (though I argue the circumstantial evidence points to this).

With Jasher, the TEXT AS WE HAVE IT TODAY cannot be connected historically to the text quoted by Joshua and Samuel. After Samuel, Jasher disappears then mysteriously reappearing, without provenance, 26 centuries, almost three millennia, later. That's just not how ancient books get copied, and preserved, and duplicated so as to survive the millennia.

In the version of the Book of Jasher that circulates today in 4:18, it says, “And their judges and rulers went to the daughters of men and took their wives by force from their husbands according to their choice.”

This version says that before the fall of the Watchers, they were judges and rulers over mankind. The rule of the Watchers over the sons of men, began after their fall, not before as this version has it. The rule of the Watchers over mankind was set up by their indoctrination of mankind, which also began after their fall. The goal of the Watchers ruling over man was to replace God's rulership over mankind.

Only after AD 70 did writings begin to show up which removed the angels from the narrative and insert sons of Seth or in this case 'judges and rulers'.

 

[Radagast]

In a word, the Book of Jasher that exists today lacks PROVENANCE

Correct.

I can however, historically demonstrate that the Book of Enoch which is preserved complete in Ethiopia is the same Book of Enoch, Jude quoted.

Not really. Barring a few fragments, the Greek book Jude quoted has vanished. There is no evidence that the Ethiopic text we have today bears any resemblance to what Jude quoted.

There are also Aramaic fragments among the DSS. They don't quite agree with the modern Ethiopic text either.

 

[ViaCrucis]

There are two texts today which call themselves Jasher. One is a late medieval Jewish midrash, the Sefer ha-Yashar, and the other is a known 18th century forgery.

It's not that they lack provenance, it's that we know exactly what they are and that they are very recent, historically speaking.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[SummaScriptura]

Correct.



Not really. Barring a few fragments, the Greek book Jude quoted has vanished. There is no evidence that the Ethiopic text we have today bears any resemblance to what Jude quoted.

There are also Aramaic fragments among the DSS. They don't quite agree with the modern Ethiopic text either.

Wrong on all counts. There is no evidence Jude quoted a Greek version of Enoch. The DSS fragments of Aramaic Enoch have been used to confirm that the version of Enoch in Ethiopic is essentially a faithful, formal translation of the book quoted by Jude. In fact, the verse in Enoch 1:9 quoted in Jude 1:14 survives in Aramaic as shown in the meme below.

 

[Radagast]

Wrong on all counts. There is no evidence Jude quoted a Greek version of Enoch.

Well, Luke was writing in Greek, and the DSS fragments confirm that there was a Greek Enoch.

The DSS fragments of Aramaic Enoch have been used to confirm that the version of Enoch in Ethiopic is essentially a faithful, formal translation of the book quoted by Jude.

False. First, there are big differences between the Aramaic and Ethiopic versions. Second, we have no way of telling what Jude quoted. And third, of course, Jude's quote doesn't imply an endorsement.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

I see that differently from the texts than you do.
No time to discuss/ write a lot about it, it at the moment, using a phone, but would like to point out a few things from Enoch, the Book of Jasher, and OT, that do correlate the Watchers being the same judges and rulers mentioned.
Enoch went to the land of Dan/the judges/rulers, which was @ Mount Hermon, formerly called "Mount Zion" (of the North"), when the fallen watchers petitioned him to seek pardon from God for them, and Enoch received the verdict of their total damnation, and reported to them the same.
In a Psalm 82, Jesus is the "El" who stands in the heavenly assembly of the Elohym, and warns them to judge righteously, and so on, lest they fall -be cast down, as the one prince, Adam.
Check out the Hebrew wording in the Psalm about the rulers called "gods", who are indeed "Watchers" being warned to do their jobs, lest they be cast out of heaven like the "one prince/ruler", the Adam.

Enoch rules in heaven with holy watchers. They are judges and rulers. In Daniel, the "Holy" watchers make a decree about Nebuchadnezzar. They give him a dream and pass sentence upon him. We will be companions of the angels, like Enoch is, and will rule with them, over earth -if counted faithful.

It was not found in the Dead Sea Scrolls.
...In the version of the Book of Jasher that circulates today in 4:18, it says, “And their judges and rulers went to the daughters of men and took their wives by force from their husbands according to their choice.”

This version says that before the fall of the Watchers, they were judges and rulers over mankind. The rule of the Watchers over the sons of men, began after their fall, not before as this version has it. The rule of the Watchers over mankind was set up by their indoctrination of mankind, which also began after their fall. The goal of the Watchers ruling over man was to replace God's rulership over mankind.

Only after AD 70 did writings begin to show up which removed the angels from the narrative and insert sons of Seth or in this case 'judges and rulers'.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

It was not found in the Dead Sea Scrolls.
...]

Hi SummaScriptura,
I believe The Book of Jasher is true history, and sheds light on many things that the Torah assumes the reader understands, and also, that Jesus said.
I believe it is true history of biblical times in chronological order from the time of Jared ( and the story of Cain and Abel, plus Lamech, who accidently killed Cain while hunting), to the time of Joshua going into the land of Canaan and fighting battles against giants, there...

I personally believe Moses wrote it as a history of the times (above), and also wrote about lots of the history of the nations around Egypt in the times of the children of Israel being in Egypt -and after.
I believe Joshua, probably, finished it after Moses' death.
I believe Moses had access to all the writings of the patriarchs going back to Adam, and put them in a redacted form, and even gave a lot of his own history -before and after his birth- and much more in detail than in the Torah.
Manuscripts of some of the patriarchs' writings do exist in fragments in the DSS, but Moses had it all, and used it for his chronological history called "the Book of the Upright/Jasher".
Personally, I have very much proved it's authenticity, for myself, by correlating it to the Torah and after.
It's no big deal if others reject it, but I receive it as history, and as true history.
Paul had access to it and made statements that are correlated to the book, and can be proved by simple searches.
Jesus said Abel was a prophet. Abel's prophecy, in Jasher, had to do with the avenging of His blood by God, upon Cain, which he warned Cain would happen, if Cain murdered him.
Enoch saw his soul crying out for that avenging of his blood, in Sheol.
God the Word said to Cain that the blood/soul of Abel was crying out to Him for that avenging, from the earth, which opened her mouth (Sheol), to receive his blood/soul.

Miriam is said to be a prophetess in the first mention of her in Exodus, but in Jasher, we read what her prophecy was, which was referenced in the New Testament, for Moses supposed they would have known that he was the deliverer for Israel -because that was Miriam's prophecy; and his birth and adoption by Pharaoh's daughter stopped the slaughter of the Hebrew sons, which need not be mentioned in Torah, for it is in Jasher.

In Jasher we learn that from the time of the promise to Abraham to the Law was 400 years, and that the tribes of Israel were not in slavery and bondage in Egypt until after Joseph died, and that bondage was put upon them stealthily, after that, until Miriam was born and named by her mother, "bitter people" for the hardship they were in.

In Jasher, we learn that Moses' mother, Jochebed, was the 70th soul that entered Egypt who came out of the loins of Jacob, for her mother bore her at the gates of Egypt.
In Jasher, we read that Moses' mother, Jochebed, was 128 when she bore Moses, and Moses led Israel out of Egypt when he was 82, so Israel was in Egypt a total of 210 years, according to that chronology, and Torah supports that, but has a discrepancy of 5 years more.

Israel was not in slavery in Egypt when they entered, and they had the best land of Egypt given them. They did not begin to be enslaved until after Joseph died, but even then, it took a bit of time.

In Jasher, we read that the Tribe of Levi never were enslaved, and why, which was why Aaron, of Levi, could be free to leave to go meet Moses in the desert.

In Jasher, we read that Job and Reuel were contemporaries, and that both were standing before Pharaoh as counselors, but Reuel departed when the plan was made to drown the Hebrew babies, taking the "Rod of God/ the sceptre", with him, that God gave Adam; and it came down to Jacob, who gave it to Joseph and when Joseph died, Reuel took charge of it and took it back to his land, with him, where it ended up as Moses' Rod...and it is the Rod Jesus will reign with when He comes down and takes His Kingdom unto Himself, that He has purchased with His blood)...

Job said "my sins are tied up in a bag", and I believe that is showing his belief that he was in part responsible for the death of the Hebrew children, for he did not speak up like Reuel did.

There is lots and lots more, on and on and on...

 

[Steve Petersen]

That's why it is called psuedepigraha.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

That's why it is called psuedepigraha.

There is no claimed author of the writing within the writing, unlike the Book of Jubilees, which is a book of fables that do not correlate with Torah, though it has at least one thing in it that does correlate with Enoch, and Torah, in that there are evil created spirits called "satans", plural, and the one chief/prince of the Satans is called "prince mastema" =chief of the satans, in Jubilees.