About justice

[peter2]

Isn't mercy (charity) without fairness an unfair behaviour? Can he be properly, fairly forgiven, he who doesn't provide with fair recognition of where truth and justice lie? Doesn't such forgiveness spread injustice?

 

[dreadnought]

Isn't mercy (charity) without fairness an unfair behaviour? Can he be properly, fairly forgiven, he who doesn't provide with fair recognition of where truth and justice lie? Doesn't such forgiveness spread injustice?

Would you rather have your sins forgiven or not have your sins forgiven?

 

[peter2]

Would you rather have your sins forgiven or not have your sins forgiven?

I did write " hé who doesn' t provide with faire recognition..."

 

[dreadnought]

I did write " hé who doesn' t provide with faire recognition..."

I see no reason to forgive a person who hasn't repented.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I see no reason to forgive a person who hasn't repented.

From my understanding of what Jesus taught about forgiveness is that it is unconditional. He said plainly that if we didn't forgive others, God will not forgive us. He never said that we should forgive only if the other person repents. It seems that His attitude is that we should forgive regardless if the person repents or not.

In actual fact, forgiveness is not for the other guy. It may or may not have any effect on him or her whether you forgive that person or not, but it will have a profound effect on you. Therefore forgiveness is for you and not for the other person. What it does is to put that person off your hook and enables you to walk away without any further rancor or bitterness. Unforgiveness causes bitterness in the unforgiving person and if left to fester it can result in a root of bitterness that will blight that person's Christian experience.

Forgiveness sets you free from the actions and attitudes of the other person. It does not excuse that person's wrong done to you, because he or she has to face God over their sins. But unforgiveness on your part could lead to revengeful conduct, which puts you in a sticky place with God, because He said, "Vengeance is Mine. I will repay." So when you forgive and walk away, then if that other person does not repent, then God will require him or her to give account directly to Him.

Forgiving another person for the wrong they have done to you takes a good strong faith in God and His promises. Forgiving another is an act of trust in the faithfulness of God to take up your cause with that other person. God will require him or her to make up with you, repent and apologise and make peace with you, or also take the consequences. But that is God's domain, not yours, so you can go on your way rejoicing that you have done what God expects of you - to freely forgive - even up to seventy times seven (which the Biblical term for infinity).

Of course, you will never forget the wrong that has been done to you and the scars will remain for some time. It doesn't mean that we have to be bosom buddies with those we have forgiven. There has been a breakdown in relationship because of the wrong, and that may never be healed and you may need to walk away from any relationship you might have had with that person. There is no strife or condemnation in that.

 

[bcbsr]

Isn't mercy (charity) without fairness an unfair behaviour? Can he be properly, fairly forgiven, he who doesn't provide with fair recognition of where truth and justice lie? Doesn't such forgiveness spread injustice?

First you seem to be confusing grace with justice. grace, such as in the practice of generosity, is not obligatory, else it's not grace. Justice is obligatory, even to God. Grace can be "unfair". Why are you generous more to one person, such as your kids, than to other people's kids?

As for forgiveness, Jesus said, "If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him." Lk 17:3 So it's conditional.

 

[drjean]

God is a just God, but we could not survive without His mercy and grace...and most certainly NO one would be in heaven if God served us the justice we deserve. That He chooses to show mercy is a wonderful thing! He is not obligated to show anyone mercy instead of meting out justice.

 

[zephcom]

Isn't mercy (charity) without fairness an unfair behaviour? Can he be properly, fairly forgiven, he who doesn't provide with fair recognition of where truth and justice lie? Doesn't such forgiveness spread injustice?

Forgiveness and justice are two completely different things. Forgiveness is a personal response to an issue. Justice is society's response to an issue.

Forgiving someone does not remove that someone from their obligations toward justice.

 

[peter2]

Forgiveness and justice are two completely different things. Forgiveness is a personal response to an issue. Justice is society's response to an issue.

Forgiving someone does not remove that someone from their obligations toward justice.

I see no reason to forgive a person who hasn't repented.

From my understanding of what Jesus taught about forgiveness is that it is unconditional.

I would just add Jesus said nothing to the insulting malefactor, whereas hé did to the other one..it came to my mind while trying to sleep

 

[peter2]

course, you will never forget the wrong that has been done to you and the scars will remain for some time. It do

Yes, but how do you cope with a long-term wrong that lasts until when you don't know ?

 

[zephcom]

I would just add Jesus said nothing to the insulting malefactor, whereas hé did to the other one..it came to my mind while trying to sleep

That really doesn't have anything to do with the issue at hand. Justice and forgiveness are still two different things.

 

[zephcom]

Yes, but how do you cope with a long-term wrong that lasts until when you don't know ?

It starts with forgiveness.

When someone does a wrong to you, THEY create a bond between you and them. They can strum that bond just to irritate you. They can walk by, wink and force you to remember that wrong. You GIVE power to them. That bond is severed when you forgive them.

That doesn't mean that you have any authority to stop society's responsibility to extract justice if whatever they did to you violates society's laws. That is justice and society has the right and duty to extract justice.

The choice to be forced to dance to their tune or not is yours. Life isn't always pleasant, but you get to decide how it is lived...in bondage to those who harm you or free of those who harm you.

 

[peter2]

That really doesn't have anything to do with the issue at hand. Justice and forgiveness are still two different things.

I speak of thé divine justice, for the other malefactor, he, speaks justly

 

[zephcom]

I speak of thé divine justice, for the other malefactor, he, speaks justly

Okay, but Divine Justice is not something we have anything to do with. Forgiveness is STILL something different.

 

[peter2]

Okay, but Divine Justice is not something we have anything to do with. Forgiveness is STILL something different.

I called this justice divine, for it was a matter of afterdeath. Yet it was our king, as man, that gavé the sentence from thé cross. Seems to me wé can imitate Christ as to giving à second chance to those who speak words of truth and justice, and as to not doing so with those who don't.
I agree, forgiveness is another issue, but related

 

[GrowingSmaller]

If the frying pan is on fire you judge. Is it not the same with society?

 

[zephcom]

I called this justice divine, for it was a matter of afterdeath. Yet it was our king, as man, that gavé the sentence from thé cross. Seems to me wé can imitate Christ as to giving à second chance to those who speak words of truth and justice, and as to not doing so with those who don't.
I agree, forgiveness is another issue, but related

I'm not sure how we can 'imitate' Jesus with this as passage as a guide. There is nothing in the passage which says what 'sentence' the first man was given. The second was assured that he would be in heaven. I suspect it is taking too much from the passage to speculate on the fate of the first man since there was no fate specified for him.

Besides that, just how do you see a relationship between divine justice and whether or not we forgive someone?

 

[peter2]

. I suspect it is taking too much from the passage to speculate on the fate of the first man since there was no fate specified for him

Yet Jesus didn't rebuke the second malefactor at his rebuking of thé first one, i think it's not without signification.

Besides that, just how do you see a relationship between divine justice and whether or not we forgive someone?

For Jésus spoke of his fate in afterdeath.I know nobody knowing someone else's fate before his own death.i assume then that Hé spoke so as the one that shall decide of everyone's fate at thé last jugement. Remember the woman wiping Jesus with her hair. Jesus replied to Simon her numerous sins were forgiven for she displayed much love.
Didn't this malefactor Do the like from his cross. I believe he appeased Jesus's moral suffering on the cross.

 

[grasping the after wind]

Yes, but how do you cope with a long-term wrong that lasts until when you don't know ?

Long term is a relative concept. By long term are you talking about something approaching eternity or something more fleeting in its duration like say merely billions of years long?

 

[peter2]

By long term are you talking about something approaching eternity or something more fleeting in its duration like say merely billions of years long?

I was speaking about à duration over which I have no power to increase nor decrease its length, for it seems to me it only dépends on the willingness of thé persons who began the wrong doing to stop it. I have no idea How long it may last, obviously.